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[ILoveKettleChips]

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I have a Bsc in Genetics

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:lol: I think we were half-expecting you to say something like "I've seen this really good website ..." !!! :lol:

Good to have another angle on things - welcome! :cheers:

 

[~elizabeth~]

Genetic mutation can be spontaneous; happen with no apparent reason - or inherited; when a parent passed the mutation onto a child. Every creasture has two copies of each gene, so if one is faulty, the other often "covers up" the fault - when offspring are produced from parents with similar genetic makeup (relatives) then it is more likely that both copies of the gene will carry an inherited "fault" - hence the higher frequency of abnomalities within closely in-bred offspring.

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But sadly you will find books on dog breeding currently in print that recommend you inbreed to maintain what are essentially superficial characteristics, primarily to do with appearance and not health and temperament, which surely should be primary concerns of anyone bringing more dogs into the world. No wonder so many breeds of pedigree dog are in genetic meltdown

 

[nina]

As nina pointed out, sometimes things are accidents and flukes, but again, the wild environment has no sympathy for such things as accidents - it's dog eat dog for coyotes!  :lol:

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That i totally agree with, & the wild environment aside, there is always room for accidents & flukes.

Sometimes things are just NOT always as they appear & there will always be an exception to the rule :thumbsup: .

Some instances can APPEAR to be run of the mill text book cases & it can be really difficult.

The difference between a vet & a breeder in my my mind is simple : a breeder knows NO MORE than a vet EVER, stands to reason, BUT a good breeder KNOWS their dog & their line & should know the faults whether genetic or otherwise.

A breeder can take their dog to a vet, knowing at home it has seemed so ill, off food, sickness, lethargy, the runs, high temperature excessive thirst whatever.

Vet is then presented with a dog that yes may have a high temperature but is springing around the surgery desperate to get home, doesn't look ill & they can only go by whats before them, its only us as owners who know how our dogs generally behave & can pick up on when something is not right.

Even some tests dont always show the true picture like when one of mine had a closed Pyo & i knew at home how ill she was but each time i got her to the vet she acted like a looney. Even x-rays didnt show up any abnormalities BUT once opened up her uterus was fit to burst.

Back to the topic in question, i'm sure 90% of things are text book cases & genetic faults BUT i also beleive there are at least 10% that are'nt. :thumbsup:

 

[Seraphina]

WHY do tou think that cryptorchidism is a "mutation"?    What exactly is you background in genetics?

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I have a Bsc in Genetics - and I say mutation, as the way that every cell in every living thing develops and works is coded for in the genetic code/DNA - if it is malformed, abscent or works incorrectly from birth, with no trauma to explain the condition, then it means that the genetic code is somehow faulty/mutated.

Genetic mutation can be spontaneous; happen with no apparent reason - or inherited; when a parent passed the mutation onto a child. Every creasture has two copies of each gene, so if one is faulty, the other often "covers up" the fault - when offspring are produced from parents with similar genetic makeup (relatives) then it is more likely that both copies of the gene will carry an inherited "fault" - hence the higher frequency of abnomalities within closely in-bred offspring.

The way in which genes are "put together" within the DNA of chromosomes means that often, more than one gene is affected by even a tiny mutation/change in the DNA; and its not possible to tell which genes are effected until they "don't work" properly

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OK, sorry I thought you are suggesting that cryptorchidism is a random spontaneous mutation rather than an inherited recessive gene(s). :b Of-course, once an individual has a gene which mutated it will be passed down to his offspring in the faulty form.

Not many breeders will boast about the fact that their dog sired cryptorchid pup, not to mention litter full of them. And of-course, both parents must have this trait for it to be expressed in their pups. However if we eliminated all dogs (of both sexes) that produced cryptorchids, spina bifida or cleft palate, as well as all their closest relatives, like parents and siblings, there will be no dogs left to breed from.

Glad to have somebody with real knowledge of genetics on K9 What is your particular field of interest? What can you tell us about inheritance of teeth (the bite that is is perfect in a puppy and then goes BAD (w00t) ) and cryptorchidism?

 

[Millie]

WHY do tou think that cryptorchidism is a "mutation"?    What exactly is you background in genetics?

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The way in which genes are "put together" within the DNA of chromosomes means that often, more than one gene is affected by even a tiny mutation/change in the DNA; and its not possible to tell which genes are effected until they "don't work" properly

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Glad to have somebody with real knowledge of genetics on K9 What is your particular field of interest? What can you tell us about inheritance of teeth (the bite that is is perfect in a puppy and then goes BAD (w00t) ) and cryptorchidism?

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And Clefts ? :thumbsup:

 

[dawn]

OK, sorry I thought you are suggesting that cryptorchidism is a random spontaneous mutation rather than an inherited recessive gene(s).  :b Of-course, once an individual has a gene which mutated it will be passed down to his offspring in the faulty form.
Not many breeders will boast about the fact that their dog sired cryptorchid pup, not to mention litter full of them.  And of-course, both parents must have this trait for it to be expressed in their pups.  However if we eliminated all dogs (of both sexes) that produced cryptorchids, spina bifida or cleft palate, as well as all their closest relatives, like parents and siblings, there will be no dogs left to breed from. 

Glad to have somebody with real knowledge of genetics  on K9   What is your particular field of interest?  What can you tell us about inheritance of teeth (the bite that is is perfect in a puppy and then goes BAD (w00t) ) and cryptorchidism?

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So chryptotchidism is not sex-linked i.e. not carried on the X/Y chromosome although it does (inherently) only affect one sex.

 

[IWLass]

The problem with dog genetics is that there has been very little research into the causes of many conditions

My experience is in molecular genetics - how DNA is made up, what can go wrong - but I keep up to date with research when I can; there just isn't the investment in "animal" genetics as there has been in human genetics :blink:

As far as I know, the "gene fault" that causes chryptotchidism has not been identified - in reality, it may actually be the resulting morphology of a mutation/error in any one of hundreds of different genes. If you think about all the different things that lead to the correct morphology (hormones, growth, muscle tone etc) - there are literally thousands of genes that have an impact on these things, and an error on any one of them can lead to things not working as they should.

It still staggers me that the functioning of every single living thing can be linked back to the correct stringing together of a few deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) molecules :wacko:

 

[Seraphina]

The problem with dog genetics is that there has been very little research into the causes of many conditions   
It still staggers me that the functioning of every single living thing can be linked back to the correct stringing together of a few deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) molecules  :wacko:

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Fascinating IWLass, and overwhelmingly complicated. (w00t) I suspect that to discover the way cryptorchidism is caused could take whole lifetime to unravel. And considering that formation of the sexual organs is governed by release of various hormones at particular time, I wonder if the faults lies somewhere in the glands responsible.

Dawn suggested that it could be sex-linked , however I know of dog that had litters with no problems and then one with several chryptorchids, some bi-lateral. Which would suggest the bitch has also something to do with it.