Need Some Breeding Help

[Terry & Sheila Smith]

Join our free community today.

Connect with other like-minded dog lovers!

Login or Register

If the dogs only has one testicle then it is abnormal, show, race or worker.

Why would anyone want to breed from an abnormal dog?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Because the problem doesn't prevent dogs running fast. Fast dogs win races. Winning races accumulates titles. Winning titles is soooo important.

Usually the owners/breeders of these dogs come into these discussions with altruistic reasons for breeding the condition on. I'm sure this thread won't be an exception.

Terry Smith

 

[urchin]

It's a difficult one this, Digit has one undescended nadlet (well, in truth it descended fine, then retreated a few months on!) and although he will be having it removed (am just waiting for Audrey's insurance money to come through from her Christmas rooftop plunge before i start into a new round of vets bills) I am in 2 minds about having him completely castrated.

I would like to stress that i ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT be breeding from him, and as he is not left to roam he can't overule me on this one! But total castration will alter his hormones and if there is nothing wrong with the one that swings free i am loath to remove it!

 

[*Mark*]

If the dogs only has one testicle then it is abnormal, show, race or worker.

Why would anyone want to breed from an abnormal dog?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Because the problem doesn't prevent dogs running fast. Fast dogs win races. Winning races accumulates titles. Winning titles is soooo important.

Usually the owners/breeders of these dogs come into these discussions with altruistic reasons for breeding the condition on. I'm sure this thread won't be an exception.

Terry Smith

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

So you can't find a good dog that can run fast win titles and the like that isn't breeding issues into the breed?

 

[Woppit]

I suppose it depends on why you are breeding; if you are breeding to get sum very fast dogs then you're not going to worry so much about testicles; if you are breeding a show dog or a generall healthy and correct dog then you will!!

The thing i was thinking was that one-testicled dogs would not breed on in nature as they may develop cancers, which would kill them and sort out these dogs by natural selection. So really we should not breed from them either if we are looking to strengthen the health and physiology should we?

 

[IWLass]

The thing i was thinking was that one-testicled dogs would not breed on in nature as they may develop cancers, which would kill them and sort out these dogs by natural selection. So really we should not breed from them either if we are looking to strengthen the health and physiology should we?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

I think you've answered your own question (in your OP) - no, dogs that show genetic mutation should not be bred from imo - not only does it perpetuate the probem, but it may be an indication of other genetic "damage"; which is unpredictable and depending on the genes affeted, can be fatal

I do not believe that the gene pool of any breed is so small that genetic mutations should be bred from to select a specific trait - speed, colour, appearance - can all be found in genetically sound dogs. I am sure you could find a similar proven sire which is genetically sound; although these sires tend to be owned by people who have the pedigree standard as their primary concern (genetic testing is a costly business, so an owner has to be motivated to carry it out) and are less amenable to producing cross-breed puppies

 

[Woppit]

lol that last bit wont be popular with lurcher owners!!

aside of mutation though i think the whole keeping the breed as it is and should be is a bit funny - i mean if norfolk spanile owners had done that there would be no cockers today.. i think they'res nothing wrong with breeds evolving.

 

[IWLass]

i think the whole keeping the breed as it is and should be is a bit funny - i mean if norfolk spanile owners had done that there would be no cockers today.. i think they'res nothing wrong with breeds evolving.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

None at all - if there were loving, humane homes (working, or pet) for every dog that was currently in the world - until then, producing yet more breeds (or commercial breeding of any dog) is perpetuating a problem at already epidemic proportions

 

[Woppit]

Yeh... but there are plenty of pedigree dogs without homes too, and plenty of well loved non-pedigree dogs too. I mean not many spingers are proper pedigree, KC reg. ones r they but they are still well-loved.

I think responisble breeding and home-finding for the pups is the key point, along with responsible ownership once u have bought a dog, whether it be a CC winning pedigree or a heinz 57!!

 

[maggymills]

I wouldn't use him for stud at all. Dont think its wise if he was ill when he was a pup and hes small and got one descended testicle.

 

[Woppit]

No i don't really plan to.

Hypothetically, i dont see that his early life and smallness is a reason not to breed from him; why do you think it might be? you mean in case he was genetically predisposed to runtness or something?

 

[Woppit]

Best Mate was under developed and small as a foal/yearling but he went on to win three Cheltenham Gold Cups!! (though they did cut him )

 

[maggymills]

well im not a breeder, mum breeds labs but i dont too involved.

i would just want a perfect stud, that had had no problems throughout his life and was well built and within breed standard. i just go on gut instinct when i say that-

for the first time my mum has decided to put one of her dogs to stud- she has had 6 boys in 15 years and he is the first one who has proven his stud potential! he was healthy from conception! and has won shows and is a top worker who is in high demand. he has just reached 18 months old and will be used probably the end of this year, beginning of next. i believe a stud dog should excel in his breed and there should be no doubts about his health/potential what so ever.

this comes from someone who doesnt breed- hope i havent put me foot in it :blink: :lol:

 

[Woppit]

lol no I think u did fine!

Well i would never stand im as a fine example anyway. The only reason i'd breed from a dog (i.e. as opposed to a bitch) would be to keep his line going as i love him so much and think he is amazin!! it is a pity with my lad as he has such a great working instinct and attitude, he'd go through the gates of hell to retrieve a pheasant for you!! that and he has such a brave, fighting spirit, any dog he passed that onto would have a nice edge in life.

as u can see i much prefer breeding on working qualities not image!

I think u need to have done well in the ring to stand a dog and get a lot of coverings - and i dont show!! does ur mum show?

 

[IWLass]

Hypothetically, i dont see that his early life and smallness is a reason not to breed from him; why do you think it might be? you mean in case he was genetically predisposed to runtness or something?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

It could be an indicator that he is carrying a genetic weakness/failing - yes.

I am still struggling to understand WHY anyone would want to breed a dog that is not 100% healthy and sound.

What benefits can a genetically mutated dog bring to his offspring that could not be gained from another, genetically sound, dog? When you consider the risks that the mating poses - I can think of NO benefits to the litter that outweigh these risks.

I do not work or show dogs - so maybe there is something significant I am missing - but a background in genetics has taught me that abnormal charcteristics should be viewed with deep concern - as they may be the most obvious, but least significant, of the problems caused by a genetic mutation :unsure:

 

[Woppit]

I know yes you are not wrong - in fact ur quite right.

It's just a bit of heart ruling head on my part that's all - but i'm not going to breed from him.

I do feel that variation needs to be kept in a population - breeding all the best ones will get good examples of the breed but we need to be careful about problems yet to be bred into the breeds. I mean sum of the tests against previous problems in breeds is very much bolting the stable door after horse has f***** off!!

i dont think it'd be very popular if we applied this attitude to people - like not allowing guys with undescended testicles to have kids, or ppl under 5ft5 to have kids, or not allowing women who needed ceasarian section to have any more children in case they too experienced childbirth problems. But then again the NHS is overburdened so maybe we should do!!!!

 

[~whitecross whippets~]

I know yes you are not wrong - in fact ur quite right.
It's just a bit of heart ruling head on my part that's all - but i'm not going to breed from him.

I do feel that variation needs to be kept in a population - breeding all the best ones will get good examples of the breed but we need to be careful about problems yet to be bred into the breeds. I mean sum of the tests against previous problems in breeds is very much bolting the stable door after horse has f***** off!!

i dont think it'd be very popular if we applied this attitude to people - like not allowing guys with undescended testicles to have kids, or ppl under 5ft5 to have kids, or not allowing women who needed ceasarian section to have any more children in case they too experienced childbirth problems. But then again the NHS is overburdened so maybe we should do!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

NO WE SHOULDNT! :angry: AND THAT WAS A RIDICULOUS COMMENT...YOU WANT TO BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU SAY :angry:

 

[IWLass]

i dont think it'd be very popular if we applied this attitude to people - like not allowing guys with undescended testicles to have kids, or ppl under 5ft5 to have kids, or not allowing women who needed ceasarian section to have any more children in case they too experienced childbirth problems. But then again the NHS is overburdened so maybe we should do!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Its called Eugenics :angry:

 

[Woppit]

well by human standards yes, but its equivalent to what we do with dogs

 

[OEH]

I know yes you are not wrong - in fact ur quite right.
It's just a bit of heart ruling head on my part that's all - but i'm not going to breed from him.

I do feel that variation needs to be kept in a population - breeding all the best ones will get good examples of the breed but we need to be careful about problems yet to be bred into the breeds. I mean sum of the tests against previous problems in breeds is very much bolting the stable door after horse has f***** off!!

i dont think it'd be very popular if we applied this attitude to people - like not allowing guys with undescended testicles to have kids, or ppl under 5ft5 to have kids, or not allowing women who needed ceasarian section to have any more children in case they too experienced childbirth problems. But then again the NHS is overburdened so maybe we should do!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

NO WE SHOULDNT! :angry: AND THAT WAS A RIDICULOUS COMMENT...YOU WANT TO BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU SAY :angry:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Calm down :sweating: . I don't think he was being entirely serious :clown: You shouldn't take things so to heart :wacko:

 

[Woppit]

i am sorry i wasnt serious, sorry if it caused offence.