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new puppy and older dog

Discussion in 'Puppy Forum' started by kerry24, Apr 1, 2018.

  1. kerry24

    kerry24 New Member Registered

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    Hi, we have a 6 year old Border Terrier, called Nelson, who we have had from a puppy. He is a very friendly dog, who gets on with other dogs, although a little timid, and enjoys playing with them. Last week we introduced our new Border Terrier puppy, Lenny to him. Lenny is nine weeks old. Nelson, most of the time, is ok with Lenny, doing the usual growl or paw on Lenny's back to teach him manners. However, increasingly Nelson has started to suddenly launch himself at Lenny, growling and what looks to me really going for him, making Lenny yelp, lasting more than a few seconds before I intervene. He does this even if Lenny has not been pestering him. Is this normal or should I be worried? I know it is early days. Many thanks, Kerry.
     
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  2. Violet Turner

    Violet Turner Well-Known Member Registered

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    Welcome, the biting is normal but when you have two dogs of the same sex they can produce same-sex aggression. Your border terriers sound awsome! But I would reccomend having one-to-ones with both of them and practice training and life skills like walking on the lead. I would reccomend speaking to your vet and seeing what they say. You are best asking the border terrier group about same-sex aggression, but I'm sure people will be able to help on here. Also it could be a bit of sadness as he has been an only dog to having to share everything. If you need more info then just ask :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2018
  3. kerry24

    kerry24 New Member Registered

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    Thank you for your advice
     
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  4. Violet Turner

    Violet Turner Well-Known Member Registered

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    Your welcome :)
     
  5. arealhuman

    arealhuman Well-Known Member Registered

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    Welcome to the forum. I'm sure some more replies will follow soon, I hope you get to the bottom of it.
     
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  6. JoanneF

    JoanneF Well-Known Member Registered

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    Welcome to the forum.

    For ayone who may read this in the future, the usual advice about adding a second dog is different age, different gender, different breed. However, dealing with the issue at hand, I have a few thoughts.

    First, it is early days. It will take time for both dogs to settle. Walking them, even round the garden, on leads with some distance between them might help.

    Second, puppies can be quite annoying to older dogs. I know you said it is Nelson going for Lenny but Lenny may have just annoyed him a bit too much. Make sure both dogs have places they can go to to be alone and not disturbed by the other. Baby gates are handy for keeping them apart or confined. Having both on a house line (a light lead with no handle so it doesn't catch) would also give you more control, and also keep you safe from redirected aggression if you had to separate them.
    Third, this -
    is where I think you can make a difference. You don't want this to become an embedded habit so you need to intervene before it happens. You don't want either dog to take the role of dealing with a scrap; by preventing it, they will look to you to take responsibility for having their back. And that is a far better thing. They know they can trust you and rely on you when they are in a corner.

    You may think it comes out of nowhere but there will be warning signs. Dogs give a series of signals that they are unhappy, but unfortunately most people don't recognise them because they can be quite subtle. To begin with there is often wide eyes, lip licking and yawning. There is also muscular tension in the body. Then the ones we sometimes do see - growl, snarl, nip then bite or fight.

    From a behavioural perspective I'm not sure seeing a vet would help, unless of course there is an underlying medical problem - which of course is always a possibility and might contribute to Nelson being less tolerant.
     
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  7. kerry24

    kerry24 New Member Registered

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    Hi, thankyou for your advice, I have thought about getting a stairgate, so I will definitely give this a go, and I have noticed before Nelson tells Lenny off, his eyes do widen and he looks tense, so this is really useful to know. Thanks again, Kerry
     
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  8. leashedForLife

    leashedForLife Well-Known Member Registered

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    .

    is the adult M, Nelson, neutered? - as the M pup grows up, there will be increasing conflict if the grown-up is still intact.

    Same-sex aggro in Fs is usually a lot more lethal than same-sex aggro in Ms, but vet bills aren't cheap, & every instance of fighting makes any fights in the future, more likely - everyone, no matter their species, does more of what they rehearse, after all. :(
    If Nelson's intact, were he mine, i'd want him desexed B4 the pup hit 4-MO & the ramp-up to full-blown puberty at 6-MO; it's not a "cure", neutering only reduces aggro, but it does help, IME & IMO.

    Terrier breeds as a group, unfortunately, are the most-aggressive breed group, far-more likely to bite or fight than most guarding breeds are; for clients with highly-reactive or very-aggro M terrier pups, i've sometimes suggested they ask their vet about neutering by 3-MO, but those were unusual cases, with pups who bit other M dogs to draw blood, not once but many times over a month or more.

    There are several terrierrrist breeds that are prone to same-sex aggro: Scotties, JRTs, & Borders are among them. Schnauzers are not terriers, nor are MinPins or Chihuahuas, but i lump them together under 'terrier' as all of them share so many behavioral habits - highly vocal, highly reactive to almost any stimuli, predatory, & often same-sex aggro [more common in Ms than Fs, across all breeds, but F JRTs can be highly reactive or aggro toward other Fs, for instance].

    - terry

    .
     
  9. kerry24

    kerry24 New Member Registered

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    Hi, thanks for your reply. Nelson has been neutered and we plan to get Lennie done too! I have been following some previous advice and Nelson seems to be a little better with Lennie, so hopefully this may continue. However I would still like any advice that is out there! Thanks again.
     
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  10. Violet Turner

    Violet Turner Well-Known Member Registered

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    Please wait until Lennie is about 1-2 years old because if they get neutred early they can stay in a puppy mental state witch isnt good.
     

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