Non-ped Racing Whippets

[wild whippies]

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The correct term is Whippet.The Kennel Club do not have precedence over the name whippet. Whippets came about from breeding terriers with greyhounds and running dogs. Their ''breed standard'' was to be sprint racing animals. No height, weight or breeding criteria has ever governed the breeding of whippets.

All pedigree KC registered whippets can trace their breeding back to the original whippet however their closed breeding lost much of the genetic material that made them sprint racing dogs. The original racing whippet continues to be bred the same way it always has although I won't deny some have exploited the greyhound in them where it has been particularly beneficial to running the longer distance of a bend.

Don't take my word for it. There is plenty of proof out there should you be bothered to look.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=12476

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=77347

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17972

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=75709

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17902

SORRY

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE WIFE DOESN'T LOG OFF

Many Thanks. I've done a bit of my own research and I see where the breeding comes from and understand it (now I think) and the non-ped seems, to me, to have come about by the KC not recognising them as a pedigree so the non-ped title has come about. ie not a pedigree, not a mongrel but inbetween and bred for a specific purpose (fast) leaning more towards a pedigree strain. As for the paperwork, this is to be able to run in the non-ped events and prove they are of that standard/ breeding thus eliminating unfair advantage.

However, I could be wrong yet again (w00t)

I have to agree with one of your earlier posts. Why would anybody put thier small delicate lighter wieght dog against a much heavier dog and risk injury. Lets face it even us Lurcher owners would not put a pup in an Overs race.

DISCOBANDIT NOT PEPA

Whippet Racing was going on way before the KC came about. Greyhounds were coursing dogs and the oval track hadn't been invented.

History is a little muddy about what exactly came about (and unfortunately so is the facts about whippets as time passes). But in an era of cock fighting, ratting pits etc and gambling, it appears that some fancied betting on dogs racing in a sprint. This become quite lucrative with hundreds of dogs attending meetings and susbtantial amounts of money being wagered. If you look at some of the big events on the videos you'll note these aren't all poor pitmen, there was gentry participating as well.

Later dog showing become popular and the KC came about. Naturally some dogs were shown and were granted KC registration. Accounts by some older members on K9 state that numbers become low of KC registered whippets after the war and the books were opened to accept some more ''non-ped'' whippets. There are whippets in KC registered pedigrees that were both shown and raced, Blue Peter being one of them but the likes of Judy (K9 Admin), Vicky and whipeteerthe1st on here will be able to name many, many more. (there'll be other members as well who know, especially those who's families have been racing for generations) These pedigrees have been offered to the likes of the whippet archives but it appears that time is passing to a degree where folk are in denial of their existance.

The KC, operating a closed stud book I suspect wouldn't of accepted all non-peds (and to be honest most of the owners as racers wouldn't of had the inclination to do so) As you can see from Pathe some of these dogs were substantially large and the KC specified a certain height limit. It is likely that this was because the more 'inbred' the racing whippet becomes, generally they become smaller. As we all know the KC are very much into inbreeding to maintain type. Unfortunately meeting the restrictions of a breed standard does cast out a lot of genetic diversity that is known to keep a breeed sound and disease free. Breeding clones is dangerous and the more detailed and specific a breed standard is, the more likely this is to occur. What's happened with the KC registered whippet is that speed was bred out of it (the standard seeing large muscle composition as undesirable, a trait which is essential to a competent sprint racer).

The term non-ped has been something thats come from K9 as most lay people do not understand the difference. The KC wouldn't stand a cat in hells chance of trying to get the likes of The British Whippet Racing Association or the New National Whippet Racing Federation to change their names. Personally I think any breed that gets KC registration should immediately be given a new name because over time, the dog ceases to be anything like it's original creation.

Instead we all describe these original breeds as working or non-ped, farsical considering they're all the real deal.

 

[whippeteerThe1st]

its a shame non ped term is used,,,,,as there whippet and grey lineage goes way back to when books began,,,same as kc books , ur non ped book,s and the greyhound

i have a 3/4 whippet 1/4 greyhound in my pack,,,,and because rumor has it ,,, greyhound and the the black and tan terrier was used,,,,,barr the terrier side ,,,my dog has splash off greyhound,,,,meaning he is closer to the 1st whippet ,,,,than kc

all u have to do is look back in some older books,,,,,the kc whippet body have changed,,,,,but the pure working breed hasnt much,,,or the non ped racer ( except the ones that have alot off grey in breed ,,,,,but having said that ,,,back in the day,,there was some big exsamples of whippets,,,,,wotever there orgin,,,they were thought very highly off as WHIPPET TYPES,( smooth or rough coated ) i think got photo some were in 1920,30,s two owner,s racing it out for £50,,,, big money back then,,,,and beyhound,,,,,racing whip,s have been going on for such a long time,,,,i hear it all the time there just racing dog,s,,,,,go back 100+ years ,,,thats what they were,,,,and good rabbit dogs,,,they were one and the same thing :thumbsup:

2day racers /showing/ hunting whippets are looked at as being diffrent,,,,i think get a pup,,,bring them up to what u want,,,,as end off day,,,a whippet is a whippet,,,,with exceptions, to any breed :thumbsup:

 

[discobandit]

Again, many thanks for taking the time to explain.

As is said the term non-ped does not do your dogs justice. Thier pedigree is as detailed and time served as any and as such should be recognised.(My opinion)

I will now humbley bow down to your infinate wisdom, step back, and just enjoy watching them do what they do best, entertain and give great pleasure to thier owners.

Gary

 

[mutley]

its a shame non ped term is used,,,,,as there whippet and grey lineage goes way back to when books began,,,same as kc books , ur non ped book,s and the greyhound
i have a 3/4 whippet 1/4 greyhound in my pack,,,,and because rumor has it ,,, greyhound and the the black and tan terrier was used,,,,,barr the terrier side ,,,my dog has splash off greyhound,,,,meaning he is closer to the 1st whippet ,,,,than kc

all u have to do is look back in some older books,,,,,the kc whippet body have changed,,,,,but the pure working breed hasnt much,,,or the non ped racer ( except the ones that have alot off grey in breed ,,,,,but having said that ,,,back in the day,,there was some big exsamples of whippets,,,,,wotever there orgin,,,they were thought very highly off as WHIPPET TYPES,( smooth or rough coated ) i think got photo some were in 1920,30,s two owner,s racing it out for £50,,,, big money back then,,,,and beyhound,,,,,racing whip,s have been going on for such a long time,,,,i hear it all the time there just racing dog,s,,,,,go back 100+ years ,,,thats what they were,,,,and good rabbit dogs,,,they were one and the same thing :thumbsup:

2day racers /showing/ hunting whippets are looked at as being diffrent,,,,i think get a pup,,,bring them up to what u want,,,,as end off day,,,a whippet is a whippet,,,,with exceptions, to any breed :thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

 

[Nellie]

The correct term is Whippet.The Kennel Club do not have precedence over the name whippet. Whippets came about from breeding terriers with greyhounds and running dogs. Their ''breed standard'' was to be sprint racing animals. No height, weight or breeding criteria has ever governed the breeding of whippets.

All pedigree KC registered whippets can trace their breeding back to the original whippet however their closed breeding lost much of the genetic material that made them sprint racing dogs. The original racing whippet continues to be bred the same way it always has although I won't deny some have exploited the greyhound in them where it has been particularly beneficial to running the longer distance of a bend.

Don't take my word for it. There is plenty of proof out there should you be bothered to look.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=12476

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=77347

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17972

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=75709

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17902

SORRY

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE WIFE DOESN'T LOG OFF

Many Thanks. I've done a bit of my own research and I see where the breeding comes from and understand it (now I think) and the non-ped seems, to me, to have come about by the KC not recognising them as a pedigree so the non-ped title has come about. ie not a pedigree, not a mongrel but inbetween and bred for a specific purpose (fast) leaning more towards a pedigree strain. As for the paperwork, this is to be able to run in the non-ped events and prove they are of that standard/ breeding thus eliminating unfair advantage.

However, I could be wrong yet again (w00t)

I have to agree with one of your earlier posts. Why would anybody put thier small delicate lighter wieght dog against a much heavier dog and risk injury. Lets face it even us Lurcher owners would not put a pup in an Overs race.

DISCOBANDIT NOT PEPA

Whippet Racing was going on way before the KC came about. Greyhounds were coursing dogs and the oval track hadn't been invented.

History is a little muddy about what exactly came about (and unfortunately so is the facts about whippets as time passes). But in an era of cock fighting, ratting pits etc and gambling, it appears that some fancied betting on dogs racing in a sprint. This become quite lucrative with hundreds of dogs attending meetings and susbtantial amounts of money being wagered. If you look at some of the big events on the videos you'll note these aren't all poor pitmen, there was gentry participating as well.

Later dog showing become popular and the KC came about. Naturally some dogs were shown and were granted KC registration. Accounts by some older members on K9 state that numbers become low of KC registered whippets after the war and the books were opened to accept some more ''non-ped'' whippets. There are whippets in KC registered pedigrees that were both shown and raced, Blue Peter being one of them but the likes of Judy (K9 Admin), Vicky and whipeteerthe1st on here will be able to name many, many more. (there'll be other members as well who know, especially those who's families have been racing for generations) These pedigrees have been offered to the likes of the whippet archives but it appears that time is passing to a degree where folk are in denial of their existance.

The KC, operating a closed stud book I suspect wouldn't of accepted all non-peds (and to be honest most of the owners as racers wouldn't of had the inclination to do so) As you can see from Pathe some of these dogs were substantially large and the KC specified a certain height limit.

APOLOGISE FOR THE CAPITALS : THE KC DO NOT SPECIFY BREED STANDARDS BREED CLUBS SET THE STANDARDS :thumbsup: THE KC IS A REGISTRY OF PEDIGREE DOGS THATS ALL.SIMILARLY THE GREYHOUND STUD BOOK DOES THE SAME FOR COURSING/RACING GREYHOUNDS

It is likely that this was because the more 'inbred' the racing whippet becomes, generally they become smaller. As we all know the KC are very much into inbreeding to maintain type.

PLEASE ENLIGHTEN HOW THE KC ARE "VERY MUCH INTO INBREEDING TO MAINTAIN TYPE"? I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE KC ADVERTISE ONE LITTER OF PUPS OF ANY BREED THAT THEY HAVE BRED

Unfortunately meeting the restrictions of a breed standard does cast out a lot of genetic diversity that is known to keep a breeed sound and disease free. Breeding clones is dangerous and the more detailed and specific a breed standard is, the more likely this is to occur. What's happened with the KC registered whippet is that speed was bred out of it (the standard seeing large muscle composition as undesirable, a trait which is essential to a competent sprint racer).

COULD THAT BE THE OWNERS CHOICE NOT TO RACE THEIR DOGS JUST TO SHOW THEM?

The term non-ped has been something thats come from K9 as most lay people do not understand the difference. The KC wouldn't stand a cat in hells chance of trying to get the likes of The British Whippet Racing Association or the New National Whippet Racing Federation to change their names.

WHY WOULD THE KC WANT TO CHANGE THE NAMES OF EITHER WHIPPET RACING CLUBS NEITHER COME UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THE KC

Personally I think any breed that gets KC registration should immediately be given a new name because over time, the dog ceases to be anything like it's original creation.

Instead we all describe these original breeds as working or non-ped, farsical considering they're all the real deal.

Ok AISI the KC pedigree dogs are purebreedi.e whippet to whippet right through its pedigree

now the non-peds have whippet in their make up along with bull terrier and even greyhound in their ancestry, as they were over 100yrs ago.This ancestry can breed true for several generations and then wallop dogs not quite the same are produced showing the bull terrier/greyhound influence in their past

 

[rodders]

The correct term is Whippet.The Kennel Club do not have precedence over the name whippet. Whippets came about from breeding terriers with greyhounds and running dogs. Their ''breed standard'' was to be sprint racing animals. No height, weight or breeding criteria has ever governed the breeding of whippets.

All pedigree KC registered whippets can trace their breeding back to the original whippet however their closed breeding lost much of the genetic material that made them sprint racing dogs. The original racing whippet continues to be bred the same way it always has although I won't deny some have exploited the greyhound in them where it has been particularly beneficial to running the longer distance of a bend.

Don't take my word for it. There is plenty of proof out there should you be bothered to look.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=12476

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=77347

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17972

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=75709

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17902

SORRY

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE WIFE DOESN'T LOG OFF

Many Thanks. I've done a bit of my own research and I see where the breeding comes from and understand it (now I think) and the non-ped seems, to me, to have come about by the KC not recognising them as a pedigree so the non-ped title has come about. ie not a pedigree, not a mongrel but inbetween and bred for a specific purpose (fast) leaning more towards a pedigree strain. As for the paperwork, this is to be able to run in the non-ped events and prove they are of that standard/ breeding thus eliminating unfair advantage.

However, I could be wrong yet again (w00t)

I have to agree with one of your earlier posts. Why would anybody put thier small delicate lighter wieght dog against a much heavier dog and risk injury. Lets face it even us Lurcher owners would not put a pup in an Overs race.

DISCOBANDIT NOT PEPA

Whippet Racing was going on way before the KC came about. Greyhounds were coursing dogs and the oval track hadn't been invented.

History is a little muddy about what exactly came about (and unfortunately so is the facts about whippets as time passes). But in an era of cock fighting, ratting pits etc and gambling, it appears that some fancied betting on dogs racing in a sprint. This become quite lucrative with hundreds of dogs attending meetings and susbtantial amounts of money being wagered. If you look at some of the big events on the videos you'll note these aren't all poor pitmen, there was gentry participating as well.

Later dog showing become popular and the KC came about. Naturally some dogs were shown and were granted KC registration. Accounts by some older members on K9 state that numbers become low of KC registered whippets after the war and the books were opened to accept some more ''non-ped'' whippets. There are whippets in KC registered pedigrees that were both shown and raced, Blue Peter being one of them but the likes of Judy (K9 Admin), Vicky and whipeteerthe1st on here will be able to name many, many more. (there'll be other members as well who know, especially those who's families have been racing for generations) These pedigrees have been offered to the likes of the whippet archives but it appears that time is passing to a degree where folk are in denial of their existance.

The KC, operating a closed stud book I suspect wouldn't of accepted all non-peds (and to be honest most of the owners as racers wouldn't of had the inclination to do so) As you can see from Pathe some of these dogs were substantially large and the KC specified a certain height limit.

APOLOGISE FOR THE CAPITALS : THE KC DO NOT SPECIFY BREED STANDARDS BREED CLUBS SET THE STANDARDS :thumbsup: THE KC IS A REGISTRY OF PEDIGREE DOGS THATS ALL.SIMILARLY THE GREYHOUND STUD BOOK DOES THE SAME FOR COURSING/RACING GREYHOUNDS

It is likely that this was because the more 'inbred' the racing whippet becomes, generally they become smaller. As we all know the KC are very much into inbreeding to maintain type.

PLEASE ENLIGHTEN HOW THE KC ARE "VERY MUCH INTO INBREEDING TO MAINTAIN TYPE"? I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE KC ADVERTISE ONE LITTER OF PUPS OF ANY BREED THAT THEY HAVE BRED

Unfortunately meeting the restrictions of a breed standard does cast out a lot of genetic diversity that is known to keep a breeed sound and disease free. Breeding clones is dangerous and the more detailed and specific a breed standard is, the more likely this is to occur. What's happened with the KC registered whippet is that speed was bred out of it (the standard seeing large muscle composition as undesirable, a trait which is essential to a competent sprint racer).

COULD THAT BE THE OWNERS CHOICE NOT TO RACE THEIR DOGS JUST TO SHOW THEM?

The term non-ped has been something thats come from K9 as most lay people do not understand the difference. The KC wouldn't stand a cat in hells chance of trying to get the likes of The British Whippet Racing Association or the New National Whippet Racing Federation to change their names.

WHY WOULD THE KC WANT TO CHANGE THE NAMES OF EITHER WHIPPET RACING CLUBS NEITHER COME UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THE KC

Personally I think any breed that gets KC registration should immediately be given a new name because over time, the dog ceases to be anything like it's original creation.

Instead we all describe these original breeds as working or non-ped, farsical considering they're all the real deal.

Ok AISI the KC pedigree dogs are purebreedi.e whippet to whippet right through its pedigree

now the non-peds have whippet in their make up along with bull terrier and even greyhound in their ancestry, as they were over 100yrs ago.This ancestry can breed true for several generations and then wallop dogs not quite the same are produced showing the bull terrier/greyhound influence in their past

Thats why scratch racing was originally introduced,because greyhound blood is used,there's every chance that after a few generations of whippet to whippet,low and behold a larger dog could pop out,so to say

 

[tinker*]

ive found all this really quite interesting.

So is it only k9'ers that call them 'non-peds'?

 

[wild whippies]

ive found all this really quite interesting.
So is it only k9'ers that call them 'non-peds'?

No. Not sure where the term started but compared to ''non KC registered'' it's easier on the tongue and suspect that's why the term caught on.

As far as I know, no-one is offended by the term in racing. We obviously call our dogs whippets because that's what they are but to lay people who do not know it's a way of differentiating between the two. To be honest, most racers couldn't give a flying hoot if they're called mongrels because they know the dogs and what they're capable of.

I personally think it's best to let folk know of the differences and think it's easier to see the whippet as a type rather than a single breed. There are many differences between non-peds, working whippets, show whippets and pedigree racing whippets. None of these dogs in my eyes are inferior to another, they are meerly meeting the purposes they were bred for. :thumbsup:

 

[mutley]

greyhound blood was introduced long before scratch racing came in non peds come from grey crosses :thumbsup:

 

[Nellie]

cant dispute that mutley so why do these people refer to them as whippets? when the dogs have other pure bred dogs in their ancestry?

 

[Nellie]

The correct term is Whippet.The Kennel Club do not have precedence over the name whippet. Whippets came about from breeding terriers with greyhounds and running dogs. Their ''breed standard'' was to be sprint racing animals. No height, weight or breeding criteria has ever governed the breeding of whippets.

All pedigree KC registered whippets can trace their breeding back to the original whippet however their closed breeding lost much of the genetic material that made them sprint racing dogs. The original racing whippet continues to be bred the same way it always has although I won't deny some have exploited the greyhound in them where it has been particularly beneficial to running the longer distance of a bend.

Don't take my word for it. There is plenty of proof out there should you be bothered to look.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=12476

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=77347

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17972

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=75709

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17902

SORRY

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE WIFE DOESN'T LOG OFF

Many Thanks. I've done a bit of my own research and I see where the breeding comes from and understand it (now I think) and the non-ped seems, to me, to have come about by the KC not recognising them as a pedigree so the non-ped title has come about. ie not a pedigree, not a mongrel but inbetween and bred for a specific purpose (fast) leaning more towards a pedigree strain. As for the paperwork, this is to be able to run in the non-ped events and prove they are of that standard/ breeding thus eliminating unfair advantage.

However, I could be wrong yet again (w00t)

I have to agree with one of your earlier posts. Why would anybody put thier small delicate lighter wieght dog against a much heavier dog and risk injury. Lets face it even us Lurcher owners would not put a pup in an Overs race.

DISCOBANDIT NOT PEPA

Whippet Racing was going on way before the KC came about. Greyhounds were coursing dogs and the oval track hadn't been invented.

History is a little muddy about what exactly came about (and unfortunately so is the facts about whippets as time passes). But in an era of cock fighting, ratting pits etc and gambling, it appears that some fancied betting on dogs racing in a sprint. This become quite lucrative with hundreds of dogs attending meetings and susbtantial amounts of money being wagered. If you look at some of the big events on the videos you'll note these aren't all poor pitmen, there was gentry participating as well.

Later dog showing become popular and the KC came about. Naturally some dogs were shown and were granted KC registration. Accounts by some older members on K9 state that numbers become low of KC registered whippets after the war and the books were opened to accept some more ''non-ped'' whippets. There are whippets in KC registered pedigrees that were both shown and raced, Blue Peter being one of them but the likes of Judy (K9 Admin), Vicky and whipeteerthe1st on here will be able to name many, many more. (there'll be other members as well who know, especially those who's families have been racing for generations) These pedigrees have been offered to the likes of the whippet archives but it appears that time is passing to a degree where folk are in denial of their existance.

The KC, operating a closed stud book I suspect wouldn't of accepted all non-peds (and to be honest most of the owners as racers wouldn't of had the inclination to do so) As you can see from Pathe some of these dogs were substantially large and the KC specified a certain height limit.

APOLOGISE FOR THE CAPITALS : THE KC DO NOT SPECIFY BREED STANDARDS BREED CLUBS SET THE STANDARDS :thumbsup: THE KC IS A REGISTRY OF PEDIGREE DOGS THATS ALL.SIMILARLY THE GREYHOUND STUD BOOK DOES THE SAME FOR COURSING/RACING GREYHOUNDS

It is likely that this was because the more 'inbred' the racing whippet becomes, generally they become smaller. As we all know the KC are very much into inbreeding to maintain type.

PLEASE ENLIGHTEN HOW THE KC ARE "VERY MUCH INTO INBREEDING TO MAINTAIN TYPE"? I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE KC ADVERTISE ONE LITTER OF PUPS OF ANY BREED THAT THEY HAVE BRED

Unfortunately meeting the restrictions of a breed standard does cast out a lot of genetic diversity that is known to keep a breeed sound and disease free. Breeding clones is dangerous and the more detailed and specific a breed standard is, the more likely this is to occur. What's happened with the KC registered whippet is that speed was bred out of it (the standard seeing large muscle composition as undesirable, a trait which is essential to a competent sprint racer).

COULD THAT BE THE OWNERS CHOICE NOT TO RACE THEIR DOGS JUST TO SHOW THEM?

The term non-ped has been something thats come from K9 as most lay people do not understand the difference. The KC wouldn't stand a cat in hells chance of trying to get the likes of The British Whippet Racing Association or the New National Whippet Racing Federation to change their names.

WHY WOULD THE KC WANT TO CHANGE THE NAMES OF EITHER WHIPPET RACING CLUBS NEITHER COME UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THE KC

Personally I think any breed that gets KC registration should immediately be given a new name because over time, the dog ceases to be anything like it's original creation.

Instead we all describe these original breeds as working or non-ped, farsical considering they're all the real deal.

Ok AISI the KC pedigree dogs are purebreedi.e whippet to whippet right through its pedigree

now the non-peds have whippet in their make up along with bull terrier and even greyhound in their ancestry, as they were over 100yrs ago.This ancestry can breed true for several generations and then wallop dogs not quite the same are produced showing the bull terrier/greyhound influence in their past

Thats why scratch racing was originally introduced,because greyhound blood is used,there's every chance that after a few generations of whippet to whippet,low and behold a larger dog could pop out,so to say

:thumbsup: and gets to be called a whippet :-

 

[rodders]

I like most of the folk in non peds call the bigger dogs 'scratch dogs' the reason being once the dogs go over the handicap threashold of 32lb (BWRA) and 35lb (NNWRF) they race off level (scratch) hence the term 'scratch dogs'These dogs have been bred within the rules of both organizations,and although one from a litter has made the size of a 'scratch dog' another from the same litter may only make an handicap size of say around 25lb.As this can happen,it is only right that all from a litter are catered for within our racing :thumbsup:

 

[FlyLurcher]

Thanks for taking the time to explain to those of us who didn't know the difference.

No can i ask a question?

I have a whipXgrey but have no knowledge of her family history, i just know from her breeder that both parents were whipXgrey and working dogs. If i want to race my pup when she's older does she have to be registered? Can i register her as i have none of her family tree? Thanks

 

[tinker*]

i dont think you can register her. I have a whip x grey pup, and i know her parents and i dont think i can reg her. But they r looking into it.

 

[wild whippies]

The correct term is Whippet.The Kennel Club do not have precedence over the name whippet. Whippets came about from breeding terriers with greyhounds and running dogs. Their ''breed standard'' was to be sprint racing animals. No height, weight or breeding criteria has ever governed the breeding of whippets.

All pedigree KC registered whippets can trace their breeding back to the original whippet however their closed breeding lost much of the genetic material that made them sprint racing dogs. The original racing whippet continues to be bred the same way it always has although I won't deny some have exploited the greyhound in them where it has been particularly beneficial to running the longer distance of a bend.

Don't take my word for it. There is plenty of proof out there should you be bothered to look.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=12476

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=77347

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17972

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=75709

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=17902

SORRY

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE WIFE DOESN'T LOG OFF

Many Thanks. I've done a bit of my own research and I see where the breeding comes from and understand it (now I think) and the non-ped seems, to me, to have come about by the KC not recognising them as a pedigree so the non-ped title has come about. ie not a pedigree, not a mongrel but inbetween and bred for a specific purpose (fast) leaning more towards a pedigree strain. As for the paperwork, this is to be able to run in the non-ped events and prove they are of that standard/ breeding thus eliminating unfair advantage.

However, I could be wrong yet again (w00t)

I have to agree with one of your earlier posts. Why would anybody put thier small delicate lighter wieght dog against a much heavier dog and risk injury. Lets face it even us Lurcher owners would not put a pup in an Overs race.

DISCOBANDIT NOT PEPA

Whippet Racing was going on way before the KC came about. Greyhounds were coursing dogs and the oval track hadn't been invented.

History is a little muddy about what exactly came about (and unfortunately so is the facts about whippets as time passes). But in an era of cock fighting, ratting pits etc and gambling, it appears that some fancied betting on dogs racing in a sprint. This become quite lucrative with hundreds of dogs attending meetings and susbtantial amounts of money being wagered. If you look at some of the big events on the videos you'll note these aren't all poor pitmen, there was gentry participating as well.

Later dog showing become popular and the KC came about. Naturally some dogs were shown and were granted KC registration. Accounts by some older members on K9 state that numbers become low of KC registered whippets after the war and the books were opened to accept some more ''non-ped'' whippets. There are whippets in KC registered pedigrees that were both shown and raced, Blue Peter being one of them but the likes of Judy (K9 Admin), Vicky and whipeteerthe1st on here will be able to name many, many more. (there'll be other members as well who know, especially those who's families have been racing for generations) These pedigrees have been offered to the likes of the whippet archives but it appears that time is passing to a degree where folk are in denial of their existance.

The KC, operating a closed stud book I suspect wouldn't of accepted all non-peds (and to be honest most of the owners as racers wouldn't of had the inclination to do so) As you can see from Pathe some of these dogs were substantially large and the KC specified a certain height limit.

APOLOGISE FOR THE CAPITALS : THE KC DO NOT SPECIFY BREED STANDARDS BREED CLUBS SET THE STANDARDS :thumbsup: THE KC IS A REGISTRY OF PEDIGREE DOGS THATS ALL.SIMILARLY THE GREYHOUND STUD BOOK DOES THE SAME FOR COURSING/RACING GREYHOUNDS

The KC has restrictions on what is elligable for registration by doing so they keep the gene pool restricted. The breed standards are owned by the kennel club and all changes subject to approval from the kennel club.

 

The greyhound stud book is a register, they do not govern the physical appearance of a greyhound which is probably why the dog genome project states the greyhound is the most genetically diverse breed of dog.

It is likely that this was because the more 'inbred' the racing whippet becomes, generally they become smaller. As we all know the KC are very much into inbreeding to maintain type.

PLEASE ENLIGHTEN HOW THE KC ARE "VERY MUCH INTO INBREEDING TO MAINTAIN TYPE"? I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE KC ADVERTISE ONE LITTER OF PUPS OF ANY BREED THAT THEY HAVE BRED

As I said through a restriction of the gene pool and by governing a breed standard.

Pedigree whippets are (in my opinion) one breed that is least likely out of most breed to develop genetic faults because of the

Unfortunately meeting the restrictions of a breed standard does cast out a lot of genetic diversity that is known to keep a breeed sound and disease free. Breeding clones is dangerous and the more detailed and specific a breed standard is, the more likely this is to occur. What's happened with the KC registered whippet is that speed was bred out of it (the standard seeing large muscle composition as undesirable, a trait which is essential to a competent sprint racer).

COULD THAT BE THE OWNERS CHOICE NOT TO RACE THEIR DOGS JUST TO SHOW THEM?

Absolutely, and if the owners want to do well at showing they'll aim to breed towards the breed standard which as I've already mentioned does not see large muscle mass as a desirable trait.

The term non-ped has been something thats come from K9 as most lay people do not understand the difference. The KC wouldn't stand a cat in hells chance of trying to get the likes of The British Whippet Racing Association or the New National Whippet Racing Federation to change their names.

WHY WOULD THE KC WANT TO CHANGE THE NAMES OF EITHER WHIPPET RACING CLUBS NEITHER COME UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THE KC

I didn't say they would want to, I said they couldn't even if they wanted to.

Personally I think any breed that gets KC registration should immediately be given a new name because over time, the dog ceases to be anything like it's original creation.

Instead we all describe these original breeds as working or non-ped, farsical considering they're all the real deal.

Ok AISI the KC pedigree dogs are purebreedi.e whippet to whippet right through its pedigree

now the non-peds have whippet in their make up along with bull terrier and even greyhound in their ancestry, as they were over 100yrs ago.This ancestry can breed true for several generations and then wallop dogs not quite the same are produced showing the bull terrier/greyhound influence in their past

No, both breeds have terrier and greyhound in their ancestry. As do dobermanns.

KC registered whippets have to have 5 generations to be assumed as pure bred. (I think this is the minimum)

I don't think the non-ped breeds true at all. Litters are very diverse in size and appearance this is because of the complete lack of a breed standard making the dogs phenotypes very diverse and the repeated outcrosses to the most diverse breed of dog of all, the greyhound.

 

[wild whippies]

Thanks for taking the time to explain to those of us who didn't know the difference.
No can i ask a question?

I have a whipXgrey but have no knowledge of her family history, i just know from her breeder that both parents were whipXgrey and working dogs. If i want to race my pup when she's older does she have to be registered? Can i register her as i have none of her family tree? Thanks

The racing organisations deal with registrations so I obviously cannot speak on their behalf. In years past dogs would be accepted but there's been no way of preventing a pure bred greyhound entering into whippet racing. Because of this potential flaw (and rumours) it was thought best to request that litters born are registered, a weight restriction of 55lb was introduced by one organisation and they also brought in a rule of how soon a dog could go back to lining with a greyhound. DNA testing has also been recognized as a means of substantiating breeding as well, I think with both organisations.

Before spending money on attempting to register I would suggest this.... you go to your nearest non-ped racing club and start training. You have nothing to loose from this because at the least you'd have a well trained racing lurcher. IF the dog shows great promise and holds it's own with non-peds, only then would I approach the committees of either organisations about whether the dog would be allowed to register. (it may well be that you'll find out some info about the breeding of your dog in that time as well to support your application)

Lots of clubs now are welcoming lurchers and pedigree whippets that have been unable to get KC registration and allowing them to run with their clubs. Furthermore some clubs like ours in the North West run what's known as time handicap racing where dogs are raced on their times, not their weights or heights. This enables all dogs to have a fair chance of winning and is probably a lot more enjoyable for both dog and owner alike. We also try to reward these dogs that support our clubs by incorporating classes for these dogs at our events.

If you pm me your location, I will try and put you in touch with someone local to you. :thumbsup:

 

[wild whippies]

cant dispute that mutley so why do these people refer to them as whippets? when the dogs have other pure bred dogs in their ancestry?

It's doubtful that the dogs in their ancestry were pure bred dogs, in fact I imagine the only ''pure bred'' dog within whippets has been the greyhound. Seeing as though whippet racing was here before greyhound racing it could be diffcult to ascertain for sure that the greyhounds within non-peds were ''pure bred'' to start with.

My theory is that the name is the clue.

Notes on the origin of the word "whippet." The word "whippet" comes originally from the latin "via" meaning "a road, a street, a path, or way."

Because "via" meant a road or a path upon which people traveled, the words eventually were associated with movement, traveling, or quickness. Some other words derived from "via" are "vibrate," vibrant," "whip," "viper," "wiper," "wife," and "whiplash."

The word "whip" probably derives from the Middle English "whippen" or "wippen," meaning "to whip." "To whip" has such derivative meanings as "to move smartly, quickly or nimbly," hence the quick moving and lively dog, "the Whippet."

I suspect there was lots of mixed breed dogs, terriers and sighthound type dogs knocking around however it was only when these dogs started running and racing on these straight tracks did the name come about. Those dogs that were succesful were bred for purpose straight racing and then become known as whippets.

Dare I say it?

I think whippets came from lurchers.

Like I said it's just a theory. I have no proof whatsoever!

 

[GRAHAM PEM]

:sweating: bloody confusing stuff all this not one dog that is racing in the non ped world is a whippet neither is it a greyhound so my theory is THEY ARE NON PEDS WHIPPETS XS (w00t)

 

[wild whippies]

No Graham they're all definately whippets, including the big ones :thumbsup:

Been doing some more mooching specifically in the 1880-1920 period and a lot of whippets were, and I quote ''only a few pounds lighter than greyhounds'' :thumbsup:

Whipeteer might be interested to know I've come across a film of what appears to be a black and tan, whippet like dog racing. :thumbsup:

 

[GRAHAM PEM]

No Graham they're all definately whippets, including the big ones :thumbsup: Been doing some more mooching specifically in the 1880-1920 period and a lot of whippets were, and I quote ''only a few pounds lighter than greyhounds'' :thumbsup:

Whipeteer might be interested to know I've come across a film of what appears to be a black and tan, whippet like dog racing. :thumbsup:

(w00t) na jacs they are xs including the big ones. :thumbsup: some might like to think there whippets but if you cross a whippet x whippet x whippet x greyhound in my book that makes them non peds and NO book wll change my mind on this one unless and this will never happen we breed the greyhound out of the bloodline. :sweating: