Non-ped Racing Whippets

[wild whippies]

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No Graham they're all definately whippets, including the big ones :thumbsup: Been doing some more mooching specifically in the 1880-1920 period and a lot of whippets were, and I quote ''only a few pounds lighter than greyhounds'' :thumbsup:

Whipeteer might be interested to know I've come across a film of what appears to be a black and tan, whippet like dog racing. :thumbsup:

(w00t) na jacs they are xs including the big ones. :thumbsup: some might like to think there whippets but if you cross a whippet x whippet x whippet x greyhound in my book that makes them non peds and NO book wll change my mind on this one unless and this will never happen we breed the greyhound out of the bloodline. :sweating:

Ahh you mean crosses! I wondered what the xs meant. I agree but like I've said the whippet always was a cross breed and still is in non peds.

It depends on how many generations a person thinks defines pure bred. I know some kennel clubs outside the UK accept 3 generations which is why non peds blood has been accepted in linings abroad.

 

[GRAHAM PEM]

No Graham they're all definately whippets, including the big ones :thumbsup: Been doing some more mooching specifically in the 1880-1920 period and a lot of whippets were, and I quote ''only a few pounds lighter than greyhounds'' :thumbsup:

Whipeteer might be interested to know I've come across a film of what appears to be a black and tan, whippet like dog racing. :thumbsup:

(w00t) na jacs they are xs including the big ones. :thumbsup: some might like to think there whippets but if you cross a whippet x whippet x whippet x greyhound in my book that makes them non peds and NO book wll change my mind on this one unless and this will never happen we breed the greyhound out of the bloodline. :sweating:

Ahh you mean crosses! I wondered what the xs meant. I agree but like I've said the whippet always was a cross breed and still is in non peds.

It depends on how many generations a person thinks defines pure bred. I know some kennel clubs outside the UK accept 3 generations which is why non peds blood has been accepted in linings abroad.

your far to wise for me jacs dont bloody start me of on generations LOL.

 

[whippeteerThe1st]

its a hard one too call

but the 1st whippet were crosses,,,,i,e grey x black and tan ,,,or grey x beddie,,,,hence 1st whippets were smooth or long haired

that goes for all kc/racing /showing ,,,whippets 2day

as for non ped,s ,,,the name straight away , shouts mongrol,,,,,,but if u have in ure house hold a non ped ,,,,meaning two sight hounds breed togher ,,,,that books go way back and beyound 100 off years,,,,,,the term non ped - i,e mongral ,,,seem abit harsh too use

long dog if u like,,,but that can be any mix off sighthound x sighthound ,,,,,,,when folk ask me, are ur dogs whippets ,,,,i say yes ,,,but there bwra type not kc type,,,,,,,or as there called by lurcher folk hardbloods,,,even lurcher folk are ahead off us,,,,they regonice them as diffrent ,,,but well breed

recently i used one off my dogs at stud,,,to a lurcher / hunting guy,,,,,,1st thing he said to me,,,,i look at these hardbloods as pure breed,,,,as theve been breed for a purpose for such along time,,,,food for thought :thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

 

[Nellie]

its a hard one too call
but the 1st whippet were crosses,,,,i,e grey x black and tan ,,,or grey x beddie,,,,hence 1st whippets were smooth or long haired

that goes for all kc/racing /showing ,,,whippets 2day

as for non ped,s ,,,the name straight away , shouts mongrol,,,,,,but if u have in ure house hold a non ped ,,,,meaning two sight hounds breed togher ,,,,that books go way back and beyound 100 off years,,,,,,the term non ped - i,e mongral ,,,seem abit harsh too use

long dog if u like,,,but that can be any mix off sighthound x sighthound ,,,,,,,when folk ask me, are ur dogs whippets ,,,,i say yes ,,,but there bwra type not kc type,,,,,,,or as there called by lurcher folk hardbloods,,,even lurcher folk are ahead off us,,,,they regonice them as diffrent ,,,but well breed

recently i used one off my dogs at stud,,,to a lurcher / hunting guy,,,,,,1st thing he said to me,,,,i look at these hardbloods as pure breed,,,,as theve been breed for a purpose for such along time,,,,food for thought :thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

Well said and sensible xs that breed true to type :thumbsup: and then someone will come along and want the KC to recognise them as a breed in their own right :thumbsup:

Fantasy? hardly just how the kc Whippet came about in the 1800's and looks very similar today as it did then due to breeding to a set standard drawn up by supporters of the breed

 

[FlyLurcher]

Well i hope the KC are never interested in the non-peds as they are currently bred for a purpose instead of a show pony that has to conform to the standard regardless of whether it can do what it was intended for or not.

Leave the non-peds alone KC and let them shine as they were intended :thumbsup:

I doubt i'd be allowed to register mine with any racing body as i know nothing at all of her breeding (except GreyXwhipp - greyXwhipp), she was off two workers so the seller was very cagey about giving any details, even the parents names! She was the last of the litter and no-one wanted her as she's black, doesn't matter to us and we love her so thats all that counts as far as we're concerned. )

 

[Nellie]

The KC wont be interested in registering any non peds BUT what I said was "someone will come along and want the KC to recognise them as a breed in their own right"

 

[wild whippies]

I'd wager good money no racer would want recognition from the KC. They have nothing to offer the breed whatsoever.

 

[wild whippies]

Well i hope the KC are never interested in the non-peds as they are currently bred for a purpose instead of a show pony that has to conform to the standard regardless of whether it can do what it was intended for or not.Leave the non-peds alone KC and let them shine as they were intended :thumbsup:

I doubt i'd be allowed to register mine with any racing body as i know nothing at all of her breeding (except GreyXwhipp - greyXwhipp), she was off two workers so the seller was very cagey about giving any details, even the parents names! She was the last of the litter and no-one wanted her as she's black, doesn't matter to us and we love her so thats all that counts as far as we're concerned. )

Registration isn't the be all and end all. I probably enjoy my club racing more than my open racing. Lot more relaxed atmosphere and like I said handicap racing on time with advance and retard weekly is so much more enjoyable for both dog and owner as all competing have their chance to win. :thumbsup:

 

[Nellie]

I'd wager good money no racer would want recognition from the KC. They have nothing to offer the breed whatsoever.

well in that case how did the racing whippets from the 19th century come to be registered by the KC? as you say the were raced long time before being shown :thumbsup: same goes for the greyhounds coursed long long time before KC recognised them to be shown :thumbsup: and who'd of put good money on the the little jack russell getting KC approval :thumbsup: try buying one of those for under £350-£400 these days? when money is involved it does funny things to people :thumbsup:

 

[meeka123]

the jack russell isnt kc recognised, the PARSON russell however is :thumbsup:

 

[chid21]

the jack russell isnt kc recognised, the PARSON russell however is :thumbsup:

and whats the difference between the two???????

only difference is a piece of paper :thumbsup:

 

[Nellie]

It was a jack russell terrier that became registered and was then to be known as Parson Russell

 

[TTT]

I think the pedigree Parson Russells remind me a bit more like a fox terrier, much leggier than what is known locally as a 'Jack Russell type' - which are cheaper too (w00t)

 

[wild whippies]

I'd wager good money no racer would want recognition from the KC. They have nothing to offer the breed whatsoever.

well in that case how did the racing whippets from the 19th century come to be registered by the KC? as you say the were raced long time before being shown :thumbsup: same goes for the greyhounds coursed long long time before KC recognised them to be shown :thumbsup: and who'd of put good money on the the little jack russell getting KC approval :thumbsup: try buying one of those for under £350-£400 these days? when money is involved it does funny things to people :thumbsup:

I doubt money was the motivation for people wanting to register their dogs with the KC. It would of been showing that was the motivation IMO.

I stand by what I say, they have nothing to offer the breed whatsoever.

Remember, this has already been done, the end result is a dog that is slower.

If money was a factor, people would be paying through the noses for pups already, based on the accolades the parents have won or the breeding line itself. The non-ped racing world is relatively small, breeders are far more interested in securing the best racing homes so their breeding gets recognition. Most dogs are gifted or sold for a very nominal amount of money.

Prolific breeding or stud use really doesn't work. There is a certain amount of luck in picking the future champion racing puppy and people like to have the odds as much in their favour as possible. Breeding willy nilly to all and sundry just doesn't work.

 

[Nellie]

I doubt money was the motivation for people wanting to register their dogs with the KC. It would of been showing that was the motivation IMO.

I stand by what I say, they have nothing to offer the breed whatsoever.

Remember, this has already been done, the end result is a dog that is slower.

If money was a factor, people would be paying through the noses for pups already, based on the accolades the parents have won or the breeding line itself. The non-ped racing world is relatively small, breeders are far more interested in securing the best racing homes so their breeding gets recognition. Most dogs are gifted or sold for a very nominal amount of money.

Prolific breeding or stud use really doesn't work. There is a certain amount of luck in picking the future champion racing puppy and people like to have the odds as much in their favour as possible. Breeding willy nilly to all and sundry just doesn't work.

OK WW if the dogs were nt registered they would nt be eligible for showing so they had to get registration first

Working terriers were very rarely sold :thumbsup: they were placed in to working homes to be tested to the full, if they made the grade they would be bred from to extend the line, just as you say happens in non-ped racing

Going back to the JR/PT bit some of the big names are ex hunt terrier men, men who made a living out of working these terriers and lived for their terriers :thumbsup: Authorities who wrote books about the breed and working, these same men can be seen showing these same dogs at all the Championship shows :thumbsup: WHY for one reason only MONEY they more you win the more you can charge for pups wether they would work them is another matter?

Can you say hand on heart there is not a single person in non-peds that would refuse more money for a dog thats winning to be able to show it? There must be a lot more work goes into preparing/conditioning a racing dog than a show dog which I dont doubt?

Why are Plummer terrier clubs seeking KC recognition at this present time?

 

[wild whippies]

I doubt money was the motivation for people wanting to register their dogs with the KC. It would of been showing that was the motivation IMO.

I stand by what I say, they have nothing to offer the breed whatsoever.

Remember, this has already been done, the end result is a dog that is slower.

If money was a factor, people would be paying through the noses for pups already, based on the accolades the parents have won or the breeding line itself. The non-ped racing world is relatively small, breeders are far more interested in securing the best racing homes so their breeding gets recognition. Most dogs are gifted or sold for a very nominal amount of money.

Prolific breeding or stud use really doesn't work. There is a certain amount of luck in picking the future champion racing puppy and people like to have the odds as much in their favour as possible. Breeding willy nilly to all and sundry just doesn't work.

OK WW if the dogs were nt registered they would nt be eligible for showing so they had to get registration first

Not true. Many individuals hosted ''dog shows'' just like they do today.

Showing at a KC endorsed show is another matter and it wasn't so much owners getting dogs registered but the breed getting recognition that needed to occur first.

Can you say hand on heart there is not a single person in non-peds that would refuse more money for a dog thats winning to be able to show it? There must be a lot more work goes into preparing/conditioning a racing dog than a show dog which I dont doubt?

If someone came up with £1000 to buy a pup then of course there are some in any minority who'll see the dollar signs and take the money and run.

The thing is though, who and more importantly why is someone going to pay £1000 for a non-ped with the hope of showing it when there is a perfectly competant KC registered example that meets the standard already?!! :wacko:

 

[wild whippies]

Why are Plummer terrier clubs seeking KC recognition at this present time?

You'd have to ask those concerned. Personally, I think it is madness.

Then again I don't believe all Patterdales should be black either! (w00t)

 

[Nellie]

OK WW if the dogs were nt registered they would nt be eligible for showing so they had to get registration first

Not true. Many individuals hosted ''dog shows'' just like they do today.

Showing at a KC endorsed show is another matter and

it wasn't so much owners getting dogs registered but the breed getting recognition that needed to occur first.

If you read my earlier post I mentioned owners approaching the KC for recognition :thumbsup: the KC dont approach owners and offer them recognition and registration

Also in a previous post I said owners would of approached the KC wanting to be accepted and they got whippets accepted as a breed to show them under rules, these same owners would of drawn up the breed standard that they wanted to breed to.

This was well over 100yrs ago by the people that had racing dogs like yourself 100yrs later a lot would nt be interested in showing but some certainly did and managed to split themselves away from the racing unlike you and others who have stuck with non-peds to race them

 

[Nellie]

If someone came up with £1000 to buy a pup then of course there are some in any minority who'll see the dollar signs and take the money and run.

The thing is though, who and more importantly why is someone going to pay £1000 for a non-ped with the hope of showing it when there is a perfectly competant KC registered example that meets the standard already?!! :wacko:

Someone with the idea of giving the said dog a fancy name example "a WestHaughton Whippet" and there will be "gotta have ones" paying silly money just to say they have got a"WestHaughton Whippet" PRICE well they wont be cheap as said breeder paid over £1,000 for the dog/bitch they're that rare :thumbsup:

 

[wild whippies]

If you read my earlier post I mentioned owners approaching the KC for recognition :thumbsup: the KC dont approach owners and offer them recognition and registrationAlso in a previous post I said owners would of approached the KC wanting to be accepted and they got whippets accepted as a breed to show them under rules, these same owners would of drawn up the breed standard that they wanted to breed to.

This was well over 100yrs ago by the people that had racing dogs like yourself 100yrs later a lot would nt be interested in showing but some certainly did and managed to split themselves away from the racing unlike you and others who have stuck with non-peds to race them

Ah I get you. Your quite right in that people in the past may not have had the desire to race or maybe their dog wasn't good enough, who knows. But they did see an attraction in showing and of course KC registration just like our own bodies registration I imagine it would of been desirable as both would be seen as prestigous organisations to compete in.

I just cannot see it catching on today (for the reasons I've already explained) Although I was intrigued to know how other racers felt and it does seem that they would prefer their pups going to racing homes, regardless of the revenue that could be gained.