Off Lead Whippets

[larv]

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Hi, I am new to all this discussionn stuff so please forgive me if I make a few mistakes!

I just "happened upon" some of the discussions surrounding excercise and letting wippi free or not.

I have owned wippi for many years and been involved in all things whippet in one way or another and think I do have some idea and understandinng of them.

My point? It fascinated me how there is so much controversy over free running or keepinng them on a lead. I say let them free! Ok, sometimes they do do that "I'll be there in a minute" thing, and yes , they even get lost very occaisionally, but that is very rare and is a small risk compared to the pleasure they get from freedom. I let my puppies free right from the start...they come on walks and just naturally follow along, weeks before I even would consider attatching a lead. They get to run, and more crucially to fall and stumble before they are fast enough to do any damage, and freedom never goes to their heads as it is just not that exciting or an issue. They learn to balace, to fall without injury, to turn and dodge, to brake, to accelerate and to jump, while still young and this sets them up for life. Sometimes they set off after the pack, but get left behind, so quickly learn to focus on their one form of security in the big wide world...me, so they learn to look for me and home in on my voice or whistle right from the start. Sure there are places where it would be foolish to walk off leads, but with minimal training they can be asked to walk to heel fairly reliably. Whippets don't NEED to chase everything that moves when they are beyond puppy stage, they are intelligent enough to know what is fair game ie hares, rabbits, rats, mink, greysquirrels and racing lures. Everything else is taboo, and once they know that they are 100% safe around deer, sheep and lambs, chickens, cats etc. It's so easy, just trust them and they will trust you. Let your puppies run from the start and their injuries will be minimal and thier recall good. Keep them on a lead for weeks or months and the freedom will be so exciting it will go to thier heads and you will have problems, they won't want to go back on the boring lead, and little obstacles will cause injury and you will have to choose your running space with great care. I feel so strongly about this that I wouldn't knowingly sell any of my puppies to homes where they aren't allowed freedom to run from young. He hey. I hope I haven't stirred up too much of a hornet's nest! Oh and I would just like to add......in twenty five years of running whippets, sometimes very hard, over rough ground with fences, walls,ditches, cliffs, rabbit warrens and other hazards,often at night,sure they have picked up the odd injury(though never a broken bone)..as have I, but they haven't half had some fun and put he wind up a few bunnies! There is nothing more pleasing than seeing them sleeping ait off after a hard run, and reliving it all in their dreams. What bland lives those that can't run must have.

Thanks.

Ivor

 

[Seraphina]

Hi, I am new to all this discussionn stuff so please forgive me if I make a few mistakes!I just "happened upon" some of the discussions surrounding excercise and letting wippi free or not.

I have owned wippi for many years and been involved in all things whippet in one way or another and think I do have some idea  and understandinng of them.

My point?  It fascinated me how there is so much controversy over free running or keepinng them on a lead. I say let them free! Ok, sometimes they do do that "I'll be there in a minute" thing, and yes , they even get lost very occaisionally, but that is very rare and is a small risk compared to the pleasure they get from freedom.  I let my puppies free right from the start...they come on walks and just naturally follow along, weeks before I even would consider attatching a lead. They get to run, and more crucially to fall and stumble before they are fast enough to do any damage, and freedom never goes to their heads as it is just not that exciting or an issue.  They learn to balace, to fall without injury, to turn and dodge, to brake, to accelerate and to jump, while still young and this sets them up for life.  Sometimes they set off after the pack, but get left behind, so quickly learn to focus on their one form of security in the big wide world...me, so they learn to look for me and home in on my voice or whistle right from the start.  Sure there are places where it would be foolish to walk off leads, but with minimal training they can be asked to walk to heel fairly reliably.  Whippets don't NEED to chase everything that moves when they are beyond puppy stage, they are intelligent enough to know what is fair gabut that was I think due to my inexperience.  My first one was the least reliable, my preseme ie hares, rabbits, rats, mink, greysquirrels and racing lures.  Everything else is taboo, and once they know that they are 100% safe around deer, sheep and lambs, chickens, cats etc. It's so easy, just trust them and they will trust you.  Let your puppies run from the start and their injuries will be minimal and thier recall good.  Keep them on a lead for weeks or months and the freedom will be so exciting it will go to thier heads and you will have problems, they won't want to go back on the boring lead, and little obstacles will cause injury and you will have to choose your running space with great care.  I feel so strongly about this that I wouldn't knowingly sell any of my puppies to homes where they aren't allowed freedom to run from young.  He hey.  I hope I haven't stirred up too much of a hornet's nest!  Oh and I would just like to add......in twenty five years of running whippets, sometimes very hard, over rough ground with fences, walls,ditches, cliffs, rabbit warrens and other hazards,often at night,sure they have picked up the odd injury(though never a broken bone)..as have I, but they haven't half had some fun and put he wind up a few bunnies!  There is nothing more pleasing than seeing them sleeping ait off after a hard run, and reliving it all in their dreams.  What bland lives those that can't run must have.

Thanks.

Ivor

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Very well said. I also let my dogs off the leash as much as possible and start on their first walk. But nowadays there are not many places where people can walk their dogs mostly off the leash. And cars go fast even in quiet suburban streets.

Some breeders (mainly in the USA) only sell pups on condition they are not allowed off the leash :rant: . This trend makes me very angry, Whippet is a running breed and i feel that if people are not willing to let their dogs run, they just shouldn't have one.

I have never owned a Whippet who was not good on recall. OK some are better than others, but my worst one came to me nearly 5 months old.

 

[FionaS]

I have always let Dolly off the lead from when i got her at 7 months old. I have had a few problems with her disappearing for about 20 mins or so. Now she is 16 months old she is very good and if i tell her to stop and she does, sometimes it takes twice!! She hadn't really met sheep loose before i had her but she is now totally fine with sheep through seeing them everyday. I think it is great to see whippets run off the lead and when i get my next puppy i will be training her to do the same.

 

[GemmaT]

DEFINATELY off the lead........!

I decided to bite the bullet and Pimms went off the lead from very early on after getting all the jabs etc. A bit nerve wracking but I would urge all ofther whippie owners to let theirs off as young as possible......as long as in a safe place of course. :blink:

She loves running, esp on the beach so it would be cruel to keep her on the lead I think.

If I walk her on the lead she never comes back quite satisfied from her walk and wont settle when we get in.

 

[whippetsrus]

Hi, I am new to all this discussionn stuff so please forgive me if I make a few mistakes!I just "happened upon" some of the discussions surrounding excercise and letting wippi free or not.

I have owned wippi for many years and been involved in all things whippet in one way or another and think I do have some idea  and understandinng of them.

My point?  It fascinated me how there is so much controversy over free running or keepinng them on a lead. I say let them free! Ok, sometimes they do do that "I'll be there in a minute" thing, and yes , they even get lost very occaisionally, but that is very rare and is a small risk compared to the pleasure they get from freedom.  I let my puppies free right from the start...they come on walks and just naturally follow along, weeks before I even would consider attatching a lead. They get to run, and more crucially to fall and stumble before they are fast enough to do any damage, and freedom never goes to their heads as it is just not that exciting or an issue.  They learn to balace, to fall without injury, to turn and dodge, to brake, to accelerate and to jump, while still young and this sets them up for life.  Sometimes they set off after the pack, but get left behind, so quickly learn to focus on their one form of security in the big wide world...me, so they learn to look for me and home in on my voice or whistle right from the start.  Sure there are places where it would be foolish to walk off leads, but with minimal training they can be asked to walk to heel fairly reliably.  Whippets don't NEED to chase everything that moves when they are beyond puppy stage, they are intelligent enough to know what is fair game ie hares, rabbits, rats, mink, greysquirrels and racing lures.  Everything else is taboo, and once they know that they are 100% safe around deer, sheep and lambs, chickens, cats etc. It's so easy, just trust them and they will trust you.  Let your puppies run from the start and their injuries will be minimal and thier recall good.  Keep them on a lead for weeks or months and the freedom will be so exciting it will go to thier heads and you will have problems, they won't want to go back on the boring lead, and little obstacles will cause injury and you will have to choose your running space with great care.  I feel so strongly about this that I wouldn't knowingly sell any of my puppies to homes where they aren't allowed freedom to run from young.  He hey.  I hope I haven't stirred up too much of a hornet's nest!  Oh and I would just like to add......in twenty five years of running whippets, sometimes very hard, over rough ground with fences, walls,ditches, cliffs, rabbit warrens and other hazards,often at night,sure they have picked up the odd injury(though never a broken bone)..as have I, but they haven't half had some fun and put he wind up a few bunnies!  There is nothing more pleasing than seeing them sleeping ait off after a hard run, and reliving it all in their dreams.  What bland lives those that can't run must have.

Thanks.

Ivor

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In my instance I am afraid I would have to disagree. My first whippet came to me at 13 months. He had been off lead from day one. Recall appalling. Whilst that as improved he is far from perfect.

However the one I have had from 8 weeks did not go off lead on a regular basis until he was six months. He has perfect recall and loves to run and enjoys it, but he is equally happy to be lead walked and walks well on the lead without pulling or being a nuisance.

I think you have got to work with the training system that works best for you but also have respect for other users of the open space around you. I am afraid that I have come across many people who let their dogs of leads straight away and months later they have still no recall skills and cause many problems for others.

I do not believe in immediate right to being off the lead but this is just my personal opinion.

 

[davethehorse]

Interesting topic to discuss Ivor - I am totally with you.

Welcome to the K9 forum :thumbsup:

 

[Janet]

I got my first whippy 2.5 years ago and treated him the same as the other breeds I have had (gsd, dobes and other assorted big working dogs) and took him off the lead on his first outing. I now have 3 whippy's but I don't think I have ever seen dogs running with such big smiles on their faces ) The sight of my Alfie running for joy after a really c**p day at work makes the day a lot better!!

 

[zilloot]

Like you I let mine off from an early age so that they can find their own feet and learn their own limits, strengthen muscles etc. I would never take a young puppy too far but they get accustomed to rough ground, long grass, heather, etc and become very sure footed. And they accept the lead without a worry too.

But I find I still have to teach recall firmly as a separate exercise; once they reach 9months or so they start rabbiting out of sight and can be slow to return. I teach the recall with a long line and a bag of cubed ham or cheese and it doesn't take long. I do have one persistently naughty whippie who is 4 now but she never disappears on her own for more than 10 mins. When she's with my labrador they have disappeared for hours so they never get off lead together!

 

[~elizabeth~]

My point?  It fascinated me how there is so much controversy over free running or keepinng them on a lead. I say let them free!

Yes, in total agreement! Unfortunately there are different cultures of dog walking in different places, and not always easy to know if you are committing a faux pas if you venture onto new territory. The trouble is that it only works if ALL the dogs are off-lead - once you get a mixture of walking styles you start to get problems

We are lucky enough to live in an area where the dog-walking culture is very much 'off-lead only' (someone put an unoffical "all dogs off lead" notice up on the meadow gates once), and I think it has a great benefit as all the local dogs that are allowed freedom are very well socialized - the difference is striking when you meet some of the few that are never let off. You watch as they turn from outgoing puppies into unpredictable adults, the pattern is repeated time and time again.

I got very annoyed last night - a young couple with a yorkie, not locals but car-visitors out to enjoy the views and the river, got very upset last night when our dog (for whom small terriers are his vision of canine loveliness :wub: ) ran up to be friendly; they immediately picked it up and started screaming at him, whilst he just ignored them and kept bouncing up to see the object of desire. If they were used to walking their dog in an area where all dogs could move and behave freely they (and their dog) would learn enough canine body language to tell whether other dogs were approaching in a friendly way or not. By doing this, they will never learn and will eventually teach their own dog (who seemed perfectly friendly and unafraid) to fear other dogs. (I had a terrier half the size of this one for years, and she was perfectly confident about playing with large dogs, but could also inform them firmly but unaggressively when she wasn't in the mood for it.)

Whippets don't NEED to chase everything that moves when they are beyond puppy stage, they are intelligent enough to know what is fair game ie hares, rabbits, rats, mink, greysquirrels and racing lures.  Everything else is taboo, and once they know that they are 100% safe around deer, sheep and lambs, chickens, cats etc. It's so easy, just trust them and they will trust you. 

A few years ago I would have agreed with you here, but I think it comes down to the individual. Mine goes rabbiting regularly and will ignore all livestock if he's hunting rabbits ; he is 100% safe with poultry but can be unpredictable with livestock (despite daily walks with cattle and horses) if we're not actually on a rabbiting trip :wacko: ; he has also got increasingly confident and defiant about it with age too. He's also recently decided deer are fair game, and I have to be very careful having had a terrifying experience with one. Demotion and noise distraction have helped a lot, and I have got him back several times from deer or running horse situations, but I have to concentrate on him hard all the time; you only have a few seconds grace where noise distraction works, and eyes in the back of your head, as he deliberately hangs back or walks behind when he's got mischief in mind.

 

[urchin]

If they were used to walking their dog in an area where all dogs could move and behave freely they (and their dog) would learn enough canine body language to tell whether other dogs were approaching in a friendly way or not. By doing this, they will never learn and will eventually teach their own dog (who seemed perfectly friendly and unafraid) to fear other dogs.  :

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:rant: Don't get me started on people who walk dogs without even a rudimentary knowlegdge of canine communication or doggie politics moriate! we could be here some time lol! :rant:

Edited to correct comedy spelling mistake!

 

[Janimal]

[, but I have to concentrate on him hard all the time; you only have a few seconds grace where noise distraction works, and eyes in the back of your head, as he deliberately hangs back or walks behind when he's got mischief in mind.

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Same here Elizabeth - Kobi is very naughty sometimes and deliberately hangs back exactly the same whereas Oscar is always 10 miles ahead :lol:

despite this I agree with being off the leader as much as possible. Mine have been off from a very early age too. :thumbsup:

 

[~elizabeth~]

Edited to correct comedy spelling mistake!

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(w00t) Darn, I missed it :lol:

No I agree. I watched a couple with a very dominant lab barge straight into a rescue collie on a lead a couple of nights ago. Lab couple think " oooh, look he's being so friendly to that collie over there, there's nice"; collie person thinks "Hmmn, overconfident male lab with very erect tail, I wish they'd call it off before my nervous wreck gives it a warning growl and starts something off". I was sympathising at a distance, having been in exactly the same position at xmas (when the dominant lab in question reacted to a quiet warning growl by trying to tear my dog's throat out :angry: ). So many people misinterpret high tail wagging as a friendly signal

 

[whippetsrus]

How does all this relate to none dog people?

 

[dessie]

Mine are off lead exercised twice daily but hats off to anyone who can say, hand on heart, that their Whippet is 100% safe around deer ..................................

[SIZE=14pt]I WISH!!!![/SIZE] (w00t)

 

[~elizabeth~]

How does all this relate to none dog people?

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I'd guess they are probably not reading k9 :- "

I'm not sure what you mean. In areas where you would not expect to find loose dogs e.g. pavements, playgrounds, city centres etc, then it is fair enough to assume that all dogs should be on leads and not allowed to bound up and jump all over people. But on areas common ground such as the ones we frequent, if people or their kids are seriouly afraid of dogs quite frankly they should should not come here. There are plenty of recreation and play areas, beaches etc where dogs are not allowed, if people have a dislike or phobia of dogs, why not choose one of these, rather than set themselves up for the inevitalble confrontation that will happen in a popular dog-walking area at some stage?

We have an extended version of this problem here - I couldn't believe my ears at a recent Commoner's meeting when the Secretary gave his report and said that it was becoming increasingly difficult to reconcile the needs of both graziers and (dog) walkers. If walkers have a phobia of horses or cattle, or don't know how to behave responsibly in their company, they simply should not venture onto the commons. If they have a dog, it should be under control, on-lead if need be, for the safely of all concerned parties.

Most of the graziers tend to realise their animals are there at their own risk (very much risk, several horse deaths recently from colic due to ingested rubbish from picnickers :angry: ); it is time that all walkers and visitors, both with dogs or without, also thought in these terms and took more personal responsibility whilst visiting, and not seek legislation to make up for a lack of common sense.

 

[OEH]

I absolutely agree- off lead as soon as possible, 2 of mine I have had from puppies and they have good recall and never run away. The other 2 are rescues.

One of whom had never been let off the lead before I had her and miraculously now has excellent recall however it took her a long time to learn to run and turn and stop she fell in to the river numerous times because she hadn't learnt how to stop, and also often did cartwheels because her back legs were so much stronger and faster than her front legs.

The other one never to have been let off is totally unreliable, I have to have an eye constantly on her, if I loose concentration even for a few seconds she can be gone and feels no need to come back in any hurry.

 

[~Helen~]

Mine are off lead exercised twice daily but hats off to anyone who can say, hand on heart, that their Whippet is 100% safe around deer ..................................

[SIZE=14pt]I WISH!!!![/SIZE]  (w00t)  

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Ditto. Don't mention the deer... :lol: at least not around one of mine.

Great recall, spot on... until there's a sniff of a deer trail and then it's red mist time. Nothing to do with training, because both are trained the same and have lovely recall, but one chases deer and the other's not bothered.

 

[~elizabeth~]

Nothing to do with training, because both are trained the same and have lovely recall, but one chases deer and the other's not bothered.

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Off-lead walking is not synonymous with apalling recall, I think there is an assumption on this thread that it is. Recall is something you have to reinforce and reward consistently from the beginning.

It can also vary within a single whippet's behaviour pattern, and be influenced by hormones. Ours had good recall to start with, which went to pot at 'puberty'; I've noticed many threads on here to the effect that recall has suddenly disappeared in a male approaching maturity or a bitch just before her season. We can measure it directly, as ours has definite peaks in defiant behaviour which correlate exactly with testosterone levels, which cause mild prostate inflammation when high.

Having been forced by injury to keep a dog on lead for 3 months, I can very much verify for the downside. Having been previously bitten several times by loose dogs whilst on-lead himself, he gets claustrophobic when constrained, and very worried by boisterous dogs approaching as he knows he can not run away if there is a problem; as a result he is far more likely to give a warning bark or growl than if off lead which can be very risky if the other canine party is aggressive.

Also, hereabouts if people see you have a dog on a lead, they automatically assume it is because it has a behavioural problem, and avoid you or shout at their dog to 'keep away', thus raising tension. I got really fed up of explaining he was only on a lead while recovering from a broken toe.

When we finally got back to proper walking, it was back to square one on off-lead recall, as he determined to run off and keep his distance, in case his freedom was curtailed again.

On balance, the social benefits of off-lead walking vastly outweigh those incurred by on-lead situations, but you have to be vigilant for those occasions where free-running/chasing might be dangerous or annoying to others.

 

[jok]

I don't think dogs can be exercised properly if they don't have free-running off the lead.

Holly went off from her very first walk. Both her and Frankie have excellent recall and never go far from me (they are too clingy). I can even call them back if they have taken off after something.

I think it is an amazing sight seeing Whippets racing round in circles flat out

 

[~Helen~]

Off-lead walking is not synonymous with apalling recall, I think there is an assumption on this thread that it is.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that Indeed, I think that off-lead walking is synonymous with good recall, or else a person wouldn't be confident enough to let the dog off-lead if they didn't think they were going to be able to call it back. :unsure: I was simply saying that good recall in most situations does not apply to my dog when there are deer in the vicinity, or even when deer have been in the vicinity. She will hunt them down by smell, even if they aren't visible, and at that point I cannot recall her. The point I was making is that it doesn't seem to matter how much I train and reinforce, because at all other times she will come to my call within 30 seconds... however if she's after deer, I could be as enticing as a human made entirely of sausage and cheese, but I am less enticing than a deer :thumbsup: