On-lead, Off-lead Etiquette?

[~elizabeth~]

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It seems like every day the rights and wrongs of on-lead, off-lead are discussed, usually after confrontations that are at best unpleasant, and at worst lead to injury of dogs or owners.

I think most people agree that dogs should be 'under control' in circumstances where they may interact with groups of people, livestock, traffic, unfamiliar dogs etc. There also seems to general agreement that off-lead socialisation from a young age is the best way to prevent interdog aggression. Sadly, there aren't many places left where you can practice this, and 'let dogs be dogs' as dessie put it, without someone misinterpreting normal dog social behaviour and demanding you put your dog on a lead.

As more and more dogs seem to only experience an on-lead life, there seems to be an increase in poor socialisation and lead aggression (lost count of the no. of dogs that have snarled and tried to take a chunk out of mine while passing on the pavement this week alone); also many loose dogs seem to take pleasure in bullying and attacking on-lead dogs, I've had a bull terrier appear out of nowhere and bite my (on-lead) dog for no apparent reason at all, which has made my previously confident, well-socialised dog more anxious about meeting strange dogs whilst on-lead.

In the States I believe they are beginning to make designated on-lead and off-lead areas, and although I find it very sad that things have come to this, might this be the only way forward in the end?

 

[~JO~]

If either of mine are off the lead, and other dogs are around - I ensure I have their attention (using a toy or treat) and Stan normally goes on the lead as he only likes very calm dogs and if another runs up and tries to jump on him or gets playful he will growl and I am only too aware that this could lead to an aggressive response from the other dog. So I keep him close to me on the lead.

I get absolutely infuriated when people let their loose dogs run up to mine which are on their leads - as I have mine, esp Stan on the lead for a reason - they normally shout 'Its alright mine is nice..' to which I reply 'well mine isn't!!" - or though he really isn't that bad and hasn't bitten or gone for another dog I do this just to make their owners think. If the dogs are nice and calm Stan is fine with them straight away

Before I get criticised for making Stan worse etc etc - he attends lure coursing and shows and is absolutely fine, no problem when he is saturated with dogs but he just doesn't like over excitedness - especially looney labs and springers jumping on him :- "

I personally think you should be able to walk your dog on a lead without being worried about other dogs running up to you and the compromising position this leaves you in.

Archie was attacked by a JRT & springer when he was about a year old - owner had no control and archie was on a lead :rant:

 

[~elizabeth~]

I personally think you should be able to walk your dog on a lead without being worried about other dogs running up to you and the compromising position this leaves you in.

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Yes, but if you feel there should be NOWHERE where dogs can socialise off-lead publically, doesn't this just exacerbate the problem in the long run, and create a sort of Catch 22 situation? It's not actually fair to frustrate dogs normal desire for social contact with new dogs they meet either.

One isn't immune from it with an on-lead dog either, as I said I've had several, unpleasant close-encounters with people with leashed dogs on pavement trying to snatch a bite as they pass; there must be something wrong with how we are treating dogs if half of them need to see a behaviouralist just to cope with other dogs daily, on lead or off!

 

[~Helen~]

Good topic :thumbsup: There are a couple of new topics about incidents today :thumbsup:

I think off lead is good, and should be managed everywhere possible. However, it does rely on dog-owners themselves to manage their dogs and to know how to control them, both on and off the lead. And if a dog is on the lead, others should assume it's for a reason and not just because the owner won't let the dog off to socialise.

 

[*Lesley*]

I personally only let mine off lead in the parts of the woods where there are usually no other dogs or people, for a few reasons, I don't want them to get hurt by other dogs, it is unfair on other dogs to see 4 looney whippets hurtling towards them (w00t) and not all people want to wear mine like I do (w00t) , they get their socialization at racing where they mix with lots of other dogs and people. :huggles:

I think it's very irresponsible of dog owners to let their dogs run upto dogs which are on a lead as it puts both the owner and the dog in an awkward postion and it's alright shouting "don't worry it won't bite you" but they don't know that yours won't bite them and in turn start a fight.

I love dogs but if I'm out with mine on a lead I don't really want some dogs charging up to me and mine because it can be very scary

 

[Joanna]

I have always let my dogs run free as we are fortunate enough to have a large open common on the doorstep. It is mainly frequented by dog owners who also have their dogs running free so presents little problem. I think it is a shame that dogs are now being perceicved as a nuisance in open spaces, and it seems mainly down to a minority of irresponsible owners who cannot control their animals. I always try to avoid my free dogs getting close to dogs on leads (unless we know them and there isn't a problem). We also walk around a large park with a play area for children, my two know the regulars there and are fine with them. Being more enclosed, it seems to have a more tense atmosphere and I tend to be more cautious there. I'm not sure about etiquette though Elizabeth, as people have very different ideas about what is acceptable and what isn't. I suppose it's about common sense, and sadly, it isn't always apparent and some dog owners are just downright ignorant or stupid.

 

[~elizabeth~]

I think it's partly a cultural thing; here everyone is very much OFF-lead and it is one of the nicest places to walk as all the village dogs have been socialised together, and the dogs look forward to meeting and playing with old and new friends. However, certain paths are frequented by people who drive here from elsewhere for a walk, and the difference in the behaviour/aggression/fear levels of both dogs and their owners is striking in comparison.

Just in case I sound irresponsible, off-lead isn't an issue here as you can usually see a problem approaching from about half a mile, and change course or leash your dog accordingly. I do think it's disappointing that most dogs don't seem to have the opportunities to socialise normally like the local ones here do, and it really does seem to have a positive effect on their group behaviour.

 

[jezza]

I only let my dogs run free when I'm in a field where I can see if anyone else is coming for miles away. As I've mentioned in other posts, I have a lot of problems with little Lenny. We bought at 5 months, up until then he had no socialisation from the 'breeder' and had been kept in a barn. However, I am not so stupid as to lay the blame for his behaviour on somebody else, I know there must be something I have done wrong for him to be this bad.

It is very upsetting as I would love nothing more than to let my dogs play with other dogs when they are running free, but this is impossible at the moment. I know that the way Lenny reacts is not normal doggy social behaviour, he is acting out of pure fear

So for the moment its on lead all the time when other dogs are around. Its Molly (my other dog) I feel sorry for because when she sees a dog she wants to go and play but I can't let her. Trust me, I've tried keeping Lenny on a lead while Molly plays but it just makes him worse, and the other dog shows more interest in hassling Lenny than playing with Molly (w00t)

 

[~JO~]

I think this is hard for me to understand in a way, as I live quite rurally and there never seem to be dogs in the fields I go to. I do prefer to walk where other people aren't as this is what enjoying the countryside is all about in my eyes.

I now take them to the park though to give Archie controlled exercise (penned in!) and to be honest there aren't even many dogs there! There were 3 others last night - the most I have seen but everyone seemed to have theirs under control and all were playing with their own 'ball on a ropes'!

But in parks like this people can all have theirs off their lead if they want to and to socialise, but personally I don't trust many dogs mainly because of their owners. Archie has had JRTs go for him on 3 seperate occasions when out and about... so I prefer to exercise them away from others.

Mine socialise as I said at shows and lure-coursing - yes on the lead, but I can't see this makes any difference.

I think you are very lucky Elizabeth with your situation where you live and it probably is quite unusual!

 

[jok]

I only have 1 or 2 of mine off the lead at once, for the reason that i want to be able to get them back quickly if i need to.

If a dog is coming towards me and is on the lead, i call mine back (the Whips come back no problem) and get them on the lead. If the dog is off the lead and looks okay ( yes, i know it's hard to tell), i will not be bothered about getting mine back on the lead.

Chloe can get over excited when she sees other dogs so i usually get her back, unless it's a dog we know likes to play with her. The Whippets, just have a quick sniff and follow me.

I have been conscious of not grabbing the pup's back as soon as i see another dog. I think it is important for socialisation that they mix with others off the lead and it can lead to aggressive behaviour / fear if they don't get the chance to do this. Obviously, if your dog already has problems, you have to do things differently, as Jo says she does with Stan.

Frankie can be grizzly with other dogs when he's on the lead, particularly if they run up to Chloe and Holly. He is protective of the bitches and i find it annoying when people continue to let their dogs jump around mine when it is obviously driving Frankie mad. He is fine off the lead though.

 

[Rosie]

As a relatively new dog owner I've found this subject rather a mine field :blink:

However, I live in a rural area and most dogs are off lead so common sense says to me that if I see a dog on a lead or being leashed at my approach then I'll stear clear and if necessary put mine on the lead too to avoid any unwelcome approach by her. Most people seem to respect that too however I've some nasty encounters where my in season whippet (on lead) was charged by 2 huge black labs doing that thing that only black labs seem to do imo with hackles up and tails high :unsure: :unsure: Clearly I can't tell what sex these dogs are at this time and shout to the owner who uses that infuriating phrase "don't worry they're fine" (matter of oppinion ) and couldn't care when I pick her up and explain the in season thing. He wasn't the least bothered by his dogs behaviour and turned out they were bitches anyway! :angry: What's a small female like me with a tiny whippet supposed to do when this occurs :rant: I've tried leaving her off lead (obviously not when in season) but she'll tend to bolt back in the direction we've come from and I'm worried about her finding a road so put her on lead if boisterous big dog approaching but I'm concerned that this usually doesn't stop big lab types still charging up and she gets really worried by this (and me too which can't be helping :wacko: :wacko:

 

[~elizabeth~]

I think this is hard for me to understand in a way, as I live quite rurally and there never seem to be dogs in the fields I go to.  I do prefer to walk where other people aren't as this is what enjoying the countryside is all about in my eyes.

Have to say, I breathe a sigh of relief when I can't see other walkers too as in the view below.

That's just me being antisocial though :lol:

But in parks like this people can all have theirs off their lead if they want to and to socialise, but personally I don't trust many dogs mainly because of their owners.  Archie has had JRTs go for him on 3 seperate occasions when out and about... so I prefer to exercise them away from others.

Mine socialise as I said at shows and lure-coursing - yes on the lead, but I can't see this makes any difference. 

No, I know. I've been very lucky not to have any really negative experiences until very recently.

I have a dilemma if we go to Swansea; my parents live next to a well-used park, where ours was

attacked at xmas. My elderly parents like taking him out on their own, but I feel it's too risky now;

he's been attacked there both on lead and off; I just go over the fields there on my own now, and

the ground there is too rough for my mother to come too.

I think some breeds do behave very differently when on lead, I agree whippets don't seem to make

any distinction, but some breeds with guarding instincts seem to behave over-protectively when on

a lead. I know a lab that never goes on a lead for this reason. :wacko:

I think you are very lucky Elizabeth with your situation where you live and it probably is quiteunusual!

No, I know. Trouble is I can see things changing even within the time we've been here We've

experienced more aggressive incidents in the last 18 months than in nearly 30 years of dog owning

previously.

 

[OEH]

This is a very difficult subject- good idea for a thread Elizabeth :thumbsup: . I am lucky enough to walk on the same meadow as Elizabeth and Gelert- there is so much space for them to run free which is wonderful for keeping them fit and they love it.

As far as the on/off lead thing goes I have a difficult one. Nana, one of my rescues is fine with almost all dogs, she just goes up and says hello very politely and then comes straight back. The only problem I have is when she meets a very submissive or poorly socialised dog as she barks and barks at these and won't come back which is clearly very intimidating for them, and then Josie joins in which makes it even worse. If I put her on a lead when I see another dog coming she turns into a barking snarling whirling dervrish which makes people think she's dangerous, which she isn't.

If I see another dog coming on the lead I call Tess to heal and put the puppy and Nana onto leads (Josephine stays clear anyway), and take a wide route around them so Nana doesn't get within snarling barking range.

The problem we have is when a dog comes rushing up to Nana and throws itself on its back in front of her squirming in submission and then Nana starts barking and chasing it. What would you do??????????? :wacko:

 

[Juley]

I used to live very close to the beach. having had all of mine frightened by several dog, mostly black labs ( 4 different ones), 2 GSD's and a very large Dobe and having had one take off for home ( fortunately being stopped by a fisherman who knew us well) I now only let them off with dogs they know very well or when there is no-one around. I always leash them well in advance when I see othres approaching and my standard response to "He won't hurt, he just wants to play" is " mine aren't friendly"

 

[mao]

I'm quite lucky living in a rural area, weekdays I rarely meet anyone,occasionally a couple with 2 Spanish rescue greyhounds who are always on their leads & both beautifully behaved, we are able to stop & chat without any dogs misbehaving. Weekends are totally different people come from nearby towns & let their dogs run free.I think that if I can see them they must be able to see me but they make no attempt to catch their dogs the worst ones are the collies & gundogs. I didn't realise that labs can be aggressive,several times I've had my dogs jumped on by labs. 1 of my dogs is aggressive, the others are all very sociable so he's on the lead on the tracks & runs free in a nearby paddock. the problem I have with this is that the loose dogs are quite often out of sight of their owners so if I turn in another direction I'm followed by them.

I go to a dog club where at the end of training the dogs are allowed to run together in a large compound, this is great as encourages socialisation between all different breeds.

I just wonder whether 1 day legislation will be brought in that no dog will be allowed off lead due to the irresponsible behaviour of some owners. The other possibility would be all dogs off lead will have to wear muzzles(health & safety )Maybe I'm being cynical :- " but I feel that there will always be idiots in charge (or not going by peoples experiences with some owners)of dogs who are totally oblivious to other peoples enjoyment, it's human nature unfortunately

 

[~elizabeth~]

I just wonder whether 1 day legislation will be brought in that no dog will be allowed off lead due to the irresponsible behaviour of some owners. The other possibility would be all dogs off lead will have to wear muzzles(health & safety )

Thats what I fear too; wouldn't it be better to designate separate on-lead and off-lead areas in public spaces like parks before things come to this? There seems to be agreement that we all prefer situations where all dogs are strictly in one category or the other, rather than risk the unpredictability of behaviour that comes with mixing the two?

Bit of a hypothetical question, can't see it happening (or being adhered to), but apparently it is being tried in the US.

 

[Janimal]

If either of mine are off the lead, and other dogs are around - I ensure I have their attention (using a toy or treat) and Stan normally goes on the lead as he only likes very calm dogs and if another runs up and tries to jump on him or gets playful he will growl and I am only too aware that this could lead to an aggressive response from the other dog.  So I keep him close to me on the lead.
I get absolutely infuriated when people let their loose dogs run up to mine which are on their leads - as I have mine, esp Stan on the lead for a reason - they normally shout 'Its alright mine is nice..'  to which I reply 'well mine isn't!!" - or though he really isn't that bad and hasn't bitten or gone for another dog I do this just to make their owners think.  If the dogs are nice and calm Stan is fine with them straight away

Before I get criticised for making Stan worse etc etc - he attends lure coursing and shows and is absolutely fine, no problem when he is saturated with dogs but he just doesn't like over excitedness - especially looney labs and springers jumping on him  :- "

I personally think you should be able to walk your dog on a lead without being worried about other dogs running up to you and the compromising position this leaves you in.

Archie was attacked by a JRT & springer when he was about a year old - owner had no control and archie was on a lead  :rant:

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Im like Jo on this one, as in often get the same responses from people with dogs off the leader. Oscar is not always sociable either with very exciteable dogs - especially collies for some reason in our case. Kobi is very laid back and gets on well with most dogs.

Im lucky to live in an area also with lots of fields and space to walk, so we can get well out of the way, but some days when you may want to walk not too far away - the chances are you meet the 'world and his wife' but generally most people with dogs you meet are very good and as you approach they leash their dogs too if there is a problem.

Its when people dont and the dogs run up snarling or barking - Oscar goes in for the kill - and it can be a really dangerous situation.

I usually know now the dogs he dosnt like, and try to act normally and carry on past in a calm manner now if I can. but its more worrying when strangers approach with dogs off the leader you dont know, in this situation I would usually put my two on the leads.

 

[ruth]

I walk on the same open common as Joanna and as she said it is full of dogs being exercised off the lead, this is a god send for us as it means monty can have free running every day.

If i see a dog on a lead i autmatically assume there is a good reason for this and will put monty back on his lead until we are well past them. The off lead dogs often run up to us to say hello and monty runs up to other offleaders to see if they want to play, i always apologise but most people say don't worry that's why we bring the dog out here.

I think because this area is known for dog walking and there is a history of 'off leading' people understand the risks and are much more aware of good dog ettiquette

 

[BeeJay]

>I just wonder whether 1 day legislation will be brought in that no dog will be allowed off lead due to the irresponsible behaviour of some owners.

Something which the local council are trying to do in Cheltenham. It's already happening.

Because I walk a large pack of dogs one of which isn't good with other dogs I trained all of mine to come and sit with me for food when I spot other dogs. The fear aggressive dog I put on lead and the others will all just stay with me and focus on the food in my hand. Which works fine until the other dogs comes piling into mine barking and snarling. With the stupid owner :rant: not being able to do a thing.

The food does unfortunately attract certain dogs like gundogs. :b

 

[Joanna]

I walk on the same open common as Joanna and as she said it is full of dogs being exercised off the lead, this is a god send for us as it means monty can have free running every day. 
If i see a dog on a lead i autmatically assume there is a good reason for this and will put monty back on his lead until we are well past them.  The off lead dogs often run up to us to say hello and monty runs up to other offleaders to see if they want to play, i always apologise but most people say don't worry that's why we bring the dog out here.

I think because this area is known for dog walking and there is a history of 'off leading' people understand the risks and are much more aware of good dog ettiquette

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Hi Ruth

Long time no see :thumbsup:

Seems like we are lucky

Jo