Phantom Pregnancy?

[sassy]

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ok this isn`t about my dog but about a friends white german shepherd,

She is 3 yrs old and when she moved here from london in february .... she was introduced to my dog who was then a 9 week old puppy, we were a bit worried as she had never had contact with other dogs apart from the odd dog she met on her walks but always kept her distance. Anyway our fears were unfounded as she just showed lots of nervous curiosity follwed by totally licking and grooming the poor pup till he was soggy, like i said they had only just moved here, and her behaviour became quite strange which was put down to the move and her feeling a little insecure. Eventually she settled down. About three months ago she came on heat and this was followed by her strange actions again eg, she became obsessed with a pink ball that had a face on it, she cradled it, pushed it, slept with it , took it to her food bowl and became quite anxious if anyone went near it. My friend noticed a few lumps on her tummy and with this decided to see a vet who diagnosed a phantom pregnancy. He said she would probably continue to have them with each heat and suggested she was sterilized, but also said that her maternal instinct was very strong ( he thinks meeting the puupy may have set it off ) and that maybe pups of her own would help, unfortunately due to a weak hip problem he has now advised that she should not become pregnant, so it would seem the only option now would be to "adopt" a little puppy for her to care for.

Now my question is, is this necessary if she is going to be sterilized anyhow,? would she think this new puppy was hers always as obviously it will grow up,? is it fair on the new puppy?, is it fair on her? will her maternal instinct stop after sterilization or just the phantom pregnancies cease ?

I must add that my friends would not get a puppy just to appease her, it would be a much wanted addition to a very dog friendly family. But they are unsure as what to do for the best for the dog they have right now.

many thanks x

 

[Trish]

a phantom pregnancy is due to the hormone levels,as soon as the hormones get back to normal so will your friends bitch.

usualy once a phantom as occured its likely they will get one every season.

and for your friend to get another dog will make no difference to her.

hope this helps

 

[kita]

Firstly I would change my vet!

This does sound like a phantom pregnancy, they will stop after the bitch has been spayed. I cannot imagine why any vet would advise a bitch like this having puppies! For one thing this will only make her worse and if she is protective of a toy then I dread to think what she would be like with real pups! Plus there are enough unwanted dogs around in homes without creating more! This vet sounds like he/she is from the dark ages! How was the weak hip diagnosed?

She may be very maternal - I had a bitch that was (she was never bred from). This did not mean that she 'adopted' any pup that came to my house.

If the people are thinking of getting another dog anyhow then go ahead, but I would not get a pup in the hope that she would 'adopt' it, this may not happen. Even when a bitch has pups and people keep one it does not mean that the bitch will necessarily get on with the pup all its life! Some bitches would kill their own daughters given half a chance!

I personnally would not let this vet near my bitch - I would get someone else to spay her.

Breeding dogs is not for the faint hearted and for a vet to advise pet owners to breed is unbelievable. I am a member of a GSD forum and a lady has just bred her bitch. She has just lost a pup at 12 days old and she is devastated. So much can go wrong, you can loose the bitch, breed pups with all sorts of problems etc. GSD's have Epilepsy, HD, digestive problems amongst other things and to breed without having all the health checks done is unforgivable.

I would advise your friend to get a second opinion, but I would definately have the bitch spayed, this WILL stop the phantom pregnancies.

Good luck

Sue

 

[saraquele]

my jan has a phantom every season , the first one i had to get some galistop from the vets as she produced so much milk :blink:

but her seaons after that it was much easier , a bit tempamental for a few days but generally fine :thumbsup:

i would take the ball off the female and not pander to her , if she is not to be bred from then spaying will stop the phantoms :thumbsup:

 

[sassy]

thank you all so much for your opinions, i will be showing my friend all of your responces.

Kita : Your advice is much like what another friend has suggested and stated and i appreciate your frankness.

Though taking the toy off her would seem cruel i can see where you are coming from saraquele and i realise that is probably the kindest option rather tahn " pander" to her.

At the end of the day my friends main concern is what is in the best interest for her dog and she will be getting spayed very soon.

Once again many many thanks .

 

[saraquele]

yes it does seem cruel but it does help , jan had a yellow chicken :blink:

and got very protective of it , i was advised to take it off her and although she moped around a day or 2 it did stop the phantom earlier than the first time when i left it with her :thumbsup:

i also took her for loads more walks and kept her mind off it (w00t)

it dosent last long , tell your friend not to worry :thumbsup:

if she is going to be spayed soon id let her get over that then introduce a new pup , as getting one before may be a mistake as the gsd will not want to be messed around by a puppy while she has stitches in

 

[kita]

The site on GSD's is www.germanshepherdsuk.co.uk and a question on there to do with spaying your friend would find interesting: www.germanshepherdsuk.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1917

There are lots of breeders give information on this site and lots of pet owners too. It is good for specifically GSD owners, and is not against white GSD's (which are a 'fault' in the showring).

I am sure that if your friend gets her bitch spayed then she will end up with a much more loving dog who is much more stable all the time. I have always found that bitches that have seasons can be quite moody, not just at the time of the phantom pregnancy either! My bitch used to get funny with other dogs before her season, then she would 'stand' for my other bitches when she was in season and afterwards she would take their noses off if they even as much as sniffed at her!!

Plus you get all the things about you cannot take her out when she is in season in case she gets 'caught', all the male dogs in the vicinity going on hunger strike and camping outside the door.

Also you have the possibility of getting a pyo when she is older as happened to my bitch - I HAD to have her spayed at 8 years old - a much harder and more risky operation.

My other bitches were done from early on and were 'normal' all their life. Given the choice again I would much rather have a bitch spayed.

 

[Trish]

i too have had two bitches speyed late in their life due to a pyo infection,one at 8 years and one at 7 years,and each one had a phantom each and every season.

my two bitches now where spayed early one at 6 months which i wouldnt spey so young again as it took her a fair while to get over it,and one at 16 months that had had a season followed by a phantom,and only had them speyed because i didnt want to breed from them.

 

[jok]

My Dobermann bitch had very bad phantom pregnancies. She produced a lot of milk, had 'babies' (a ball, rope and a furry monkey!) and she even ripped open our feather duvet to make a nest - that was a mess i can tell you!

She started having seasons very close together and had a phantom after each one. We decided it would be kinder to have her speyed. Since she has been speyed we have got the two Whippets and she has taken to them very well.

 

[sassy]

you lot are all so kind with your quick responces and much appreciated advice. My friend is going to get another puppy but purely because they want one not as a baby for the bitch they already have and they are going to wait untill she has recovered from being spayed )

Thankyou kita for the website addy for the GSD`s i am sur my friend will find this very useful.

She is actually a very beautiful, well trained and very affectionate dog, she just goes a bit loopy during her phantoms which i suppose is to be expected,

So the outcome is she will be spayed and then another proper addition will come later .

many thanks x