Pit Bull 'type' Dogs

[FeeFee]

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I was of course absolutely horrifed by the death of the little girl attacked by her uncle's dog recently, and my heart goes out to her family.

However I am very worried about the general anti dog backlash in the press - I've read comments in response to the story demanding that all dogs are kept on lead and muzzled in public (as is the case in some areas in the US), and calls for the list of breeds banned under the DDA to be extended to include all bull breeds, rotties, GSD's etc.

As I see it we should be looking penalise irresponsible owners, not to randomly pick on particular breeds of dog.

One of the things that worries me extremely is the classification of dogs as being a 'Pit Bull Type' and the fact that any dog identified as such can be confiscated and destroyed. The problem is that 'Pit Bulls' aren't (as I understand it) a recognised breed here, so are being identified purely by what people 'think' this type of dog is. The dog I know that looks most like a 'Pit Bull Type' is a friend's staffie x mastiff - a mix of two perfectly legal breeds (and a total softy to boot).

Just a little test to see how people here get on spotting the Pit Bull - bearing in mind that the people here all know a bit about dogs (and one member here has a Pit Bull picture in their sig, which gives a bit of a clue ), how do you think the average member of the public or even police officer would get on?

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

 

[wild whippies]

The dangerous dogs act has an exemption scheme in place where dangerous dogs can be exempt providing they meet a certain criteria. Firstly it would have to be proved the dog is a pit bull type by a qualified, competant veterinarian. Secondly even if it was deemed of pit bull type the owners could still apply for the dog to be exempt. Unfortunately, convincing the local neighbourhood is another matter, it's only a few months back now that people were crossing the road to avoid Rottweilers.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/do...ular67.1991.pdf

 

[masta]

i think this whole pit bull/bull breed debate has been debated to a standstill people will have strong views for or against, but the fate of these dogs is becoming pretty muched sealed as we have attack after attack lots that dont even hit the media and it is a real shame because in the right hands they are loving loyal dogs unfortunatley the majority seem to be in the "wrong hand" and worse still these people are breeding them and the law are realising that measures will have to be taken

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/.../breaking56.htm

 

[bardmand]

This debate has been raging here in Norway as well for years now, especially regarding the now banned American Staffordshire Terrier (certainly of "Pit Bull type"). I am sure a lot depends on the owners/breeders of these dogs, but considering the type of buyers these breeds attract (no doubt fuelled by their media image and the emotions legislation has awoken), I don't see how any serious breeder in their right mind would ever consider breeding these dogs. It seems it is hard enough to find responsible owners for whippet puppies!

 

[posh totty]

no animal asks to come into this world, and i think myself that the majority of loving dog owners will be angered by whats happened as they treat their dogs with the love and respect they deserve, but its the idiot element that are taking over the breeds to look hard etc and its the breed and the decent dogs and owners out there who suffer! an article in the mirror today say it took 3 phone calls and £525 to get a pit bull with aggressive behaviour! I bet genuine bull breeders must be sick to the stomach, as these types get enough flak with out this happening! part of the problem must be laid at the door of who breeds them and who they sell them too, the dodgy bloke with cap and tracky aint gona give a toss where the dog goes except for the money!

the pic put on the board of the pit bull with the baby kissing it SHOULD be a lovely pic but i worry who will see that? the members on here see a child and a lovely dog enjoying a loving moment , a family pet, what worryie me is if one of the idiot brigade sees it and thinks he can do it with the dog he has wound up and wound up, what would happen to the child he decides to do that with??? i hope you can see what im saying? its not the decent caring loving owners of this board but the degenerates that fester in our society today! children have been maimed and killed and innocent dogs will and have lost lives

i cant see a solution either

 

[beaker]

i'm asking cos i don't know,

how exactly can they determine whether something is 'pitbull' or of pitbull type?

i was having a discussion with my cousin today who is a vet and he said that identifying the dogs breeding will all come down to the opinion of some 'expert' and that there is no way of testing the dog genetically,

the press though have been more than happy to anounce the dog a 'pitbull' from the start and sell a few extra papers :angry: nowt like whipping up a bit of fear and hatred to help line the pockets.

 

[melanie]

i did the test and i got it right the second time, my first guess was number 22!

 

[slimfast]

HOW MANY TIMES DO WE AFTER HEAR A DOG WILL NOT HURT A FLY / SOFT AS GREASE BEFORE IT RIPS SOMEBODYS FACE OFF?

 

[jade]

i had an american bull cross who i had since apuppy and then he turn on one of my whippets iwas left with no choice but to have him put to sleep he had been with 4 whippets from 5 weeks old and i ve had dog all my life as much as iloved him he changed thankfully my whippet is fine now i dont think its was the dog fault it the breeding or lack of knowing never again heartbroken

 

[posh totty]

sorry to hear that , you have been very honest and you must still be heartbroken :huggles:

 

[jue332]

i had an american bull cross who i had since apuppy and then he turn on one of my whippets  iwas left with no choice but to have him put to sleep he had  been with 4 whippets from 5 weeks old and i ve had dog all my life as much as iloved him he changed  thankfully my whippet is fine now i dont think its was the dog fault it the breeding or lack of knowing never again heartbroken

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Sorry to hear you had to have your dog pts, but why did you have it from 5 weeks old ? I Think this is way too young to be away from it's mother and litter mates, as they learn from mum right and wrong behaviour !

 

[Seraphina]

One of the reasons i stopped breeding Great Danes was that I realised what sort of damage they could do if they wanted to. Every time I had a litter i would get several idiots who wanted a "macho" dog, they wanted it to scare people. I was always worried that even the people to whom I did sell the dog, may want it to be agressive. Then there was a case of a 15 years old boy, who came home at dusk, instead of opening a gate he jumped over the fence. He landed on his 2 Great Danes, they got a fright and before they relised who he was they severed his arm above elbow.

Frankly i do not believe that such a huge dogs have much of a role in our society, we live in ever more cramped conditions, and lovely as some of these large breeds often are, I cannot see why would anybody want to have the responsibility of such a dog.

As far as pitbuls go, it is not possible to determine by genetic testing what breed dog is. Vets are definitely NOT qualified to decide a breed either. Some dog judges well experienced with a breed could possibly do the job. But it would be very difficult if not impossible for anybody to be 100% sure that certain dog is a pitbul cross and not staffie cross.

I also got the pitbull at second go, I would have been bit more sure if I seen the dogs in flesh, but ther is no way police or pound keepers would not be making wrong determinations.

 

[Jesswhippet]

Dangerous dogs - Any breed can be dangerous - Owners play the major role.

I think owners can be irresponsible. We have GSD next door who is approx 18mths and a bitch. She has never been trained, never goes for a walk and lives in the house or relatively small garden. She has already had one fence down to try and get at another neighbour who she appears to hate on sight. During last summer she tried to eat her way through our fence much to the distress of our whippy. We have reinforced the fence at a heavy cost to us - a normal fence panel would have been twiggs.

I spoke to the daughter's boyfriend and he said "the dog was doing what dogs do!"

I explained to him the previous GSD did not touch the fence (granted she was very old when the quiet whippy arrived) I asked him to ask the owner to pop round so we sort something out. Obviously nothing happened but they knocked wooden poles into the ground and put ply panels between them and our fence. The dog still literally launches itself at our fence and still tries to rip its way through.

Our whippet never made a sound until this puppy came and I think she now barks and goes mad in defence of herself. I dread the summer coming and we want to use the garden last year was a nightmare.

Any suggestions which will not put me in court very welcome.

Wendy

 

[maggymills]

pitt bulls are now being called- irish staffs, american staffs, red nose terriers.

my thoughts are that they are a cross of american bull terriers and stafforshire bull terriers.

my friend has an 'irish staff', i just thought he was a staffie. but now i look at him- he is extremely wide and got a lot more muscle covering all over.

there are some pitt bulls that come from near pure staffies and the fighting instinct is very diluted.

but then there are pitt bulls, bred down and down from all fighting dogs. the urge is strong to bite, and sometimes unstoppable.

i have known and loved some bull breeds, like the irish staff, or am staff, but i am totally against them being bred. i feel for the x breed really, they are bred to live in families yet also to kill, they must be extremely confused and mixed up. its down to young lads now, they need to realise that its not nice to keep mating x bull terriers with each other.

if there is an all out culling of these dogs, it will only push these breeders/fighters more underground and they will go to further length to obtain the most aggressive dog/bitch.\

i dont know what to do about this situation, but i fear for staffies that dont have papers- and there are lots of them without papers.

 

[FeeFee]

Just seen this. It's exactly the sort of situation that worries me:

Dog confiscated by council

I've also heard that some vets are being asked to put down family pets with no history of aggression because people are getting hysterical about the idea that their staffie or stafffie x *might* turn on their children. One vet has issued a press release to say how upset and sick at heart he is that he has had to put down 10 healthy, friendly dogs in the last week or so.

Rescue centres are having bull breeds handed in or dumped in record numbers, again because people have seen the 'devil dog' headlines and think their pet dog might suddenly turn into a killer.

I'm totally in favour of regulation to curb the yobs who breed and train dogs for fighting or to be aggressive just for the sake of being 'ard, but they are the people who won't comply with any laws regarding neutering, muzzling, chipping or registration anyway - it's the responsible dog owners who will suffer from tighter legisation while the real problem continues.

 

[jade]

legisation while the real problem continues.

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i had him from 5 weeks as he was from a large litter and the mum could not cope and he only move next door and had other whippets he settle in fine since having one before the attack he was a dream to own but something changed and left me heartbroken

 

[finnbob]

i have a german shepherd and a black labrador both males and a female cocker spaniel my shepherd came from a home wear he was never socialised for a whole year he never went out of the house at all and hes the most placid dog ive had but the lab would atttack a dog if he got the chance but hes brilliant with my own 2 other dogs so i think that shows you that any breed can do alot of damage if they wanted to.

also on my local news there was a story about a corgi x that got attacked by a staffi x it was ripped apart but luckally survived i just think that all breeds wat evr the size are capable of being nasty and owners should take more care and responsobillity for there pets and there actions.

 

[FeeFee]

Just wanted to add that I don't think the fact that a dog is dog-aggressive has anything to do with whether it is a danger to humans - adults or children.

There are lots of dogs who don't like other dogs but are fantastic with people.

 

[~elizabeth~]

Just wanted to add that I don't think the fact that a dog is dog-aggressive has anything to do with whether it is a danger to humans - adults or children. 
There are lots of dogs who don't like other dogs but are fantastic with people.

Frankly, isn't that a huge problem too? What sort of life can these dogs lead if they can never be walked safely within the proximity of other dogs? Why should I have to endure these dogs snarling and barking at me, and trying to hurl themselves at my dogs when I have to pass and risk making my own well-socialised, unaggressive dogs nervous of other dogs?

I've had 3 serious unprovoked attacks in the last 18 months, staff x, lab and GSD, and in the second 2 instances the dogs were well-socialised and looked after, and certainly didn't belong to people who were encouraging aggression. It's time people accepted certain breeds are more prone to be aggressive to other dogs. How many people do we know that have had serious attacks on their dogs, and always the culprit is nearly always a GSD, staff or rottweiler or their crosses. I've discussed it with my vet and they agree; some breeds just are very hard to socialise with other dogs. :angry:

I'm sick off getting dirty looks from non-doggy people who hug their kids close-to as my inoffensive whippets pass, yes I think fear of all dogs is growing as a result of these incidents and the lurid media attention they attract but it doesn't help to blame it all on bad owners, as my experience is that even good owners of these breeds, who genuinely have done all they can to train and socialise, can get caught out when their behaviour changes suddenly on maturity or change of pack order; unfortunately it's the rest of us who have to pay the price, in all sorts of ways, when these incidents happen

 

[FeeFee]

I totally agree dog aggression is a problem, but it is a different problem from dogs being dangerous to people.

I'm not sure that it fair to generalise about breeds, either, though I'd agree that some breeds aren't for inexperienced owners. Over the last 30 years I've had rescue dogs of all breeds, taken in at all ages and some with very bad backgrounds. The only dog that had real problems with dog aggression that I wasn't able to solve was a greyhound. He had to be on lead and muzzled at all times - though he was a fantastic dog in the house, and I trusted him completely with my children. The most aggressive dog we meet regularly on our walks is a neighbour's whippet - again, a fantastic dog with people but hates other male dogs (and they won't consider having him neutered because they want to breed from him )