Pit Bull 'type' Dogs

[~elizabeth~]

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I totally agree dog aggression is a problem, but it is a different problem from dogs being dangerous to people.

But it can spill over, as in the incident where a child was seriously mauled trying to rescue her terrier from a Dobermann. Also many owners don't recognise the difference - oh a £ for every time the words 'dont' worry he's a big softie' have been spoken as the guard breed in question is actually growling and baring its teeth at your dog :rant:

I'm not sure that it fair to generalise about breeds, either, though I'd agree that some breeds aren't for inexperienced owners. 

I'd agree to an extent, my cousin bred GSDs for years and they seemed even tempered dogs, and yesterday we met a nice, friendly staff who played very nicely with my puppy. But I've lost count of the number of dogs I've heard of being killed or seriously injured by GSDs, from my neighbours' corgi years ago to the lady I met at the last lurecoursing meeting who spent well over £1000 last year having her whippet's spine repaired after her friends GSD suddenly attacked. How do you know when you meet one that whether it's been well-handled, or from an unpredictable line? Of course any dog can have problems, but the incidence of aggression is well above the average in some breeds, even well-handled ones can be unpredictable before you even take account of the huge attraction these breeds have for the moron element who don't have a clue :wacko:

I don't know what the answer is, but I had a 2 small kids run up to my dogs a week or 2 back yelling 'don't hurt me' at them, I really despair of the future if this is a sign of things to come

 

[Seraphina]

I got bitten twice in my life, both time getting involved in dog attacking another dog. My friend got very badly mauled by several dogs when they tried to attack her Whippet and she covered her with her body. I would have done the same.

The thing is some breeds are just capable inflicting lot worse damage than others. Terriers are yappy and agressivive, their bite would be painful, but rarely lethal.

 

[maggymills]

I never generalise breeds, the most threatening dog i ve experienced when vet nursing was a jack russell- he kept biting towards my face/neck. he did get my shoulder though.

i have met many scared gsd's, staffs (dogs that people percieve as aggro) and when they have tried to bite me- its when iam doing something painful and they bite in direction of where the pain is, ie- where my hands are!

oh and- the last poster said 'terriers are snappy, but their bites arent lethal'- well a staffie is a terrier and their bites are extremely powerful! you really cannot generalise breeds or breed catagories...

its unfair. yes i have been snapped at by a gsd, ooh and also an akita, jrt, lab, collie, pomeranian, beagle and actually lots more- im not mean, just get the mean jobs and have bad luck! but what my experience tells me- is to keep wary of ANY dog, WHATEVER the Breed!

xx

 

[Seraphina]

oh and- the last poster said 'terriers are snappy, but their bites arent lethal'- well a staffie is a terrier and their bites are extremely powerful! you really cannot generalise breeds or breed catagories...
i

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I di not say arent l letal, I said they rarely are. Which is lot different. I did not think of staffies when i wrote that, although they are classed as terriers they really are a separate category, which I would call fighting dogs. That is dogs bred to be agressive. I also do not usually like generelisations, but it is a simple fact that breeds have certain traits, both physical and temperamental, which makes them a separate breed.

Many years ago JRT attacked my Great Dane while I walked with her on leash. This little dog grabbed my Dane by her neck and just hung there trying to shake her. She was absolutely besides herself and I knew she will kill it if I do not manage to hold her. By the way I was 9 months pregnant (w00t) (actually 2 days overdue). Fortunately I was wearing my riding boots and I managed to jump clear and than kick the dog so hard it let go and flew a fair distance. I then ran as fast as possible given the circumstances. My bitch had no serious injury to her neck, she just developed life long hate for JRTs. If this attacking dog was bigger I would have most likely ended bitten and my bitch seriously injured.

Simply; bigger and stronger the dog more damage it can potentially cause.

 

[rls22]

This has made interesting reading.

Slightly off topic - but the dogs perceived as being dangerous, the staffies, the dobes, GSD's etc are the one's that I have no fear of (although I was lucky to be brought up with the most wonderdul SBT ever and my sis has the gorgeous Chloe :wub: ).

The dog's that I do worry about being bitten by are collies and JRT's. I know several people who have had nasty experiences with collies. Unfortunately, it seems to be because they were kept by owners not exercising or working them as they should be.

I'm sure lots of people are attacked by non 'fighting' breeds, it just doesn't receive the same coverage in the press. :rant:

 

[~Sarah~]

The dog's that I do worry about being bitten by are collies and JRT's.  I know several people who have had nasty experiences with collies.  Unfortunately, it seems to be because they were kept by owners not exercising or working them as they should be. 

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My experiences when working for a vet in the 1980's is similar. I don't recall having problems with Dobes, GSD's or Rotties. I found Yorkies could be very difficult, but obviously they cannot inflict injuries like the larger breeds can, and hence don't get the same coverage in the media. :- "

Our Bobby is petrified of having his claws clipped and would be very likely to bite me or the OH, so we have to muzzle him. I do feel that any dog does have the potential to bite in certain circumstances, such as when injured or frightened.

 

[rls22]

I agree with you there Sarah.

I think it is a shame that Staffie's, Rotties, dobes etc get so much negative press, if they are kept by a responsible, loving family then can make the ideal family pet, as I myself have experienced.

So many people now think that all of these breeds are going to be nasty, because of the tiny minority that are that we hear about.

 

[Macha]

I totally agree dog aggression is a problem, but it is a different problem from dogs being dangerous to people.
I'm not sure that it fair to generalise about breeds, either, though I'd agree that some breeds aren't for inexperienced owners.  Over the last 30 years I've had rescue dogs of all breeds, taken in at all ages and some with very bad backgrounds.  The only dog that had real problems with dog aggression that I wasn't able to solve was a greyhound.  He had to be on lead and muzzled at all times - though he was a fantastic dog in the house, and I trusted him completely with my children.  The most aggressive dog we meet regularly on our walks is a neighbour's whippet - again, a fantastic dog with people but hates other male dogs (and they won't consider having him neutered because they want to breed from him  )

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maybe they shouldn't breed that whippet because he might pass on his undesirable behaviour

but I've read that neutering doesn't do much to change the behaviour of adult dogs and I've also met just a couple of people who say they had their dogs neutered to make them less aggressive towards other dogs

It is said that neutering young males helps curb aggression and dominance (but neutering too young can also have an adverse affect on growth and development)

The reason I always react when I read advice to neuter a dog to change behaviour is that I my dog who was neutered when he was about 7 mos old is the most dominating male dog I've owned as well as the only neutered one.

 

[Macha]

QUOTE(FeeFee @ Jan 9 2007, 10:33 PM)

Just wanted to add that I don't think the fact that a dog is dog-aggressive has anything to do with whether it is a danger to humans - adults or children.

There are lots of dogs who don't like other dogs but are fantastic with people.

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Moriarte answered:

"Frankly, isn't that a huge problem too? What sort of life can these dogs lead if they can never be walked safely within the proximity of other dogs? Why should I have to endure these dogs snarling and barking at me, and trying to hurl themselves at my dogs when I have to pass and risk making my own well-socialised, unaggressive dogs nervous of other dogs? "

A local councillor in Northern Ireland has called for dogs to be muzzled when they are playing off lead on the beaches. He said a couple of people had been attacked (minor injuries I believe) because they lifted up their small dogs to protect them and then the big dogs jumped at the people.

Moriarte has a point. But we all have to learn more about how to handle dogs. At the age of 12 learned something about the consequences of picking up your dog. My usually mild-mannered whippet was barking at a St Bernard. The St Bernard was quiet and was on lead. I picked up my whippet to stop him and then the St Bernard suddenly lunged at me - surprising his own handler. I got a small bite on my hand.

Another response to some earlier comments:

On the whole, big dogs are actually the more mild mannered dogs. And they are often safer with kids because they can take a bit of mauling without it hurting them.

 

[masta]

I totally agree dog aggression is a problem, but it is a different problem from dogs being dangerous to people.
I'm not sure that it fair to generalise about breeds, either, though I'd agree that some breeds aren't for inexperienced owners.  Over the last 30 years I've had rescue dogs of all breeds, taken in at all ages and some with very bad backgrounds.  The only dog that had real problems with dog aggression that I wasn't able to solve was a greyhound.  He had to be on lead and muzzled at all times - though he was a fantastic dog in the house, and I trusted him completely with my children.  The most aggressive dog we meet regularly on our walks is a neighbour's whippet - again, a fantastic dog with people but hates other male dogs (and they won't consider having him neutered because they want to breed from him  )

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"I trusted him completely with my children" never in 40+ years of keeping and living with dogs have i ever hand on heart been able to say that very silly to trust an animal with children

 

[Seraphina]

"I trusted him completely with my children" never in 40+ years of keeping and living with dogs have i ever hand on heart been able to say that very silly to trust an animal with children

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Exactly. Nor would i trust a child completely that it will not do something painful to the dog. When I have children and dogs together i watch them constantly. If the dog start to look bothered I immediately intervene. I would never expect a dog to put up with everything from a child. But lot of people do and when it ends in a tragedy, it is always the dog's fault. But that still does not change anything on the simple fact of life;

small dog = small teeth less strenghth

big dog = big teeth more strength

And there is a difference between dog snapping (even if it possibly draws blood) and dog savaging somebody.

 

[FeeFee]

"I trusted him completely with my children" never in 40+ years of keeping and living with dogs have i ever hand on heart been able to say that very silly to trust an animal with children

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Exactly. Nor would i trust a child completely that it will not do something painful to the dog. When I have children and dogs together i watch them constantly. If the dog start to look bothered I immediately intervene. I would never expect a dog to put up with everything from a child. But lot of people do and when it ends in a tragedy, it is always the dog's fault. But that still does not change anything on the simple fact of life;

small dog = small teeth less strenghth

big dog = big teeth more strength

And there is a difference between dog snapping (even if it possibly draws blood) and dog savaging somebody.

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I should clarify - when I said I trusted him 100% with my children, these were not young toddler age children, they were older children who have been brought up with dogs and knew how to behave with them. I would never leave young children unsupervised with any dog.

 

[JAX]

I totally agree dog aggression is a problem, but it is a different problem from dogs being dangerous to people.
I'm not sure that it fair to generalise about breeds, either, though I'd agree that some breeds aren't for inexperienced owners.  Over the last 30 years I've had rescue dogs of all breeds, taken in at all ages and some with very bad backgrounds.  The only dog that had real problems with dog aggression that I wasn't able to solve was a greyhound.  He had to be on lead and muzzled at all times - though he was a fantastic dog in the house, and I trusted him completely with my children.  The most aggressive dog we meet regularly on our walks is a neighbour's whippet - again, a fantastic dog with people but hates other male dogs (and they won't consider having him neutered because they want to breed from him  )

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Having him neutered will not make one jot of differance , its an `Old Wives Tale `Im afraid .

 

[FeeFee]

I totally agree dog aggression is a problem, but it is a different problem from dogs being dangerous to people.
I'm not sure that it fair to generalise about breeds, either, though I'd agree that some breeds aren't for inexperienced owners.  Over the last 30 years I've had rescue dogs of all breeds, taken in at all ages and some with very bad backgrounds.  The only dog that had real problems with dog aggression that I wasn't able to solve was a greyhound.  He had to be on lead and muzzled at all times - though he was a fantastic dog in the house, and I trusted him completely with my children.  The most aggressive dog we meet regularly on our walks is a neighbour's whippet - again, a fantastic dog with people but hates other male dogs (and they won't consider having him neutered because they want to breed from him  )

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Having him neutered will not make one jot of differance , its an `Old Wives Tale `Im afraid .

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You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Having 'turned round' a number of dogs who have come to me with various degrees of dog aggression over the years I have found that neutering is often - not always - an important part of that process and has undoubtedly made a difference.

In the case of this particular dog I certainly wouldn't want to breed from a dog with his temperament.

 

[Seraphina]

I totally agree dog aggression is a problem, but it is a different problem from dogs being dangerous to people.
I'm not sure that it fair to generalise about breeds, either, though I'd agree that some breeds aren't for inexperienced owners. Over the last 30 years I've had rescue dogs of all breeds, taken in at all ages and some with very bad backgrounds. The only dog that had real problems with dog aggression that I wasn't able to solve was a greyhound. He had to be on lead and muzzled at all times - though he was a fantastic dog in the house, and I trusted him completely with my children. The most aggressive dog we meet regularly on our walks is a neighbour's whippet - again, a fantastic dog with people but hates other male dogs (and they won't consider having him neutered because they want to breed from him )

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Having him neutered will not make one jot of differance , its an `Old Wives Tale `Im afraid .

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You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Having 'turned round' a number of dogs who have come to me with various degrees of dog aggression over the years I have found that neutering is often - not always - an important part of that process and has undoubtedly made a difference.

In the case of this particular dog I certainly wouldn't want to breed from a dog with his temperament.

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[/quote

High Testosterone levels are certainly connected with aggression. People who take Testosterone are prone to have a short fuse. So castrating male will definitely reduce Testosterone level in his body and therefore will have some calming effect. BUT adolescent male (animal or human) has a great sudden spurt of Testosterone, which is associated with the typical awful behaviour at that stage. However, once the Testosterone production peaks, it is all downhill from there. Males castrated because of behaviour problems are usually done during this high level of Testosterone in their body, if they start behaving better it is attributed to the castration, but it is impossible to say if he would have improved anyway, as his levels would drop off naturally. Although in horses gelding them does definitely make a difference. And nobody in their right mind would keep a stallion as a pleasure hack.

 

[GreyKnight]

Although I've grown up with a few dog breeds (whippet, jack russel, border collie) and consider myself pretty dog literate so-to-speak, I am to this day very suspicious of any German Shepherd, Rottweiler, Terrier etc. I own up to not trusting them as I do believe that they are genetically sensitive dogs, far beyond other breeds. I have no first hand experience of being threatened by these breeds (except through car windows), but my common sense says they are used as guard/police dogs above other breeds for a reason.

I would never own one of these breeds personally for this reason (call it a personal mistrust perhaps) and I simply take no notice of owners of these breeds who tell me that their dog is fine or soft. It pays to be cautious and I don't want to be on the receiving end of an unhappy big viscious dog!

 

[rls22]

Although I've grown up with a few dog breeds (whippet, jack russel, border collie) and consider myself pretty dog literate so-to-speak, I am to this day very suspicious of any German Shepherd, Rottweiler, Terrier etc.  I own up to not trusting them as I do believe that they are genetically sensitive dogs, far beyond other breeds.  I have no first hand experience of being threatened by these breeds (except through car windows), but my common sense says they are used as guard/police dogs above other breeds for a reason.
I would never own one of these breeds personally for this reason (call it a personal mistrust perhaps) and I simply take no notice of owners of these breeds who tell me that their dog is fine or soft. It pays to be cautious and I don't want to be on the receiving end of an unhappy big viscious dog!

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I think this is a real shame. It is this attitude, which leads to these breeds getting such an undeserved amount of bad press. I think you will find 99% of these owners are right. Just as there will be some nasty dogs of each and every breed out there.

 

[Seraphina]

I would never own one of these breeds personally for this reason (call it a personal mistrust perhaps) and I simply take no notice of owners of these breeds who tell me that their dog is fine or soft. It pays to be cautious and I don't want to be on the receiving end of an unhappy big viscious dog!

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I think this is a real shame. It is this attitude, which leads to these breeds getting such an undeserved amount of bad press. I think you will find 99% of these owners are right. Just as there will be some nasty dogs of each and every breed out there.

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That is not the point. Each breed was bred for particular purpose. Gun dog pups will instictively point and fetch. Sighthounds have relatively strong prey drive (although some stronger than others), herding dogs will try to herd (even if none of their immediate ancestors ever saw a sheep or cow), fighting dogs are more likely to fight, and guard dogs to guard. Whippets will catch and kill rabbits because that has been their purpose and NOT because they are vicious killers. And guard dogs will protect, and if they deem it necesary bite, not because they are "nasty" but because that is their instinct. Just like people with staffies who claim their dog is a real softie, would not hurt a fly, and then when the dog is fully matured, one day it attacks another dog without any provocation or notice at all. I have seen this situation over and over again. And of-course there are fear biters and some agressive dogs in all breeds, but the problem dogs of the fighting or guard breeds are more likely to be dangerous. And that is what the statistics show.

 

[rls22]

Maybe I find it hard to be objective on this when I have been lucky enough to have been brought up with wonderful examples of the 'guarding' and 'fighting' breeds.

And personally, I have known lots of people who have been bitten by collies and JRT's but you don't see the mass negative press against them.

 

[masta]

Maybe I find it hard to be objective on this when I have been lucky enough to have been brought up with wonderful examples of the 'guarding' and 'fighting' breeds.And personally, I have known lots of people who have been bitten by collies and JRT's but you don't see the mass negative press against them.

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baby killed (AGAIN!) = mass negative press JRT'S nip ankle = no press