Problem with the park

[Nanny71]

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Reading about some problems other people have had and the really good advice they have been given. Thought I would try you all with this one.
We have several good places where our dogs can go off lead. All within walking distance.
The local park is good and very secure but Dudley hates it. Nothing has happened to him there and if I am with any dog he knows he is quite happy to go and walk round as long as he is glued to my side he won't run or play but will amble round.
However if I go alone he either plants or just sits and basically tells me he doesn't want to go in. I managed to get over it for a while by going in a different gate and walking the opposite way round but recently he has sussed this and is doing the planting and sitting. I never tug on his lead and have tried waiting him out but I usually give up and we don't go in.
He is little and I can pick him up and carry him in there, but then I feel guilty making him do something he obviously doesn't want to do.
Some friends tell me I should not let HIM lead me. Others that I should not take him out of his comfort zone. At weekends we do go quite a bit further afield and new places don't bother him. Just the park and oddly he prefers to walk round the village green rather than on it.
Thoughts on this would be appreciated.

 

[leashedForLife]

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in the park itself, what's the substrate? - what's he walking on?
Birdshot or pea gravel can be very uncomfortable for dog's paws, birdshot is small & sharp, while pea-gravel is large & round; birdshot grinds at pads' traction surface & also pokes, vs pea gravel, which is hard & lumpy underfoot, & small ones can lodge between pads or toes when the paw s-p-r-e-a-d-s under the dog's wt, as they walk, or when they run & put more pressure on their paws, as they push off.

Astro-turf can be painfully hot in full sun, & can burn paw-pads just from solar radiation, or cause friction burns if the dogs run on it or slip.

U note that it's very secure - presumably that means fenced, & not easily escaped. // Is he accustomed to fences? Maybe he objects to the idea of a confining perimeter?
What KIND of fence? -
the visual appearance of certain fences can cause emotional reactions in some dogs; I worked with a M Berner whose owner came to me, concerned that his recall was poor & her then-BF was no help - he persisted in letting their dog run off-leash, & refused to use a long-line, or do any training.
But what we spent much-more time on was their 160# dog's absolute phobia of any GRATE - storm drains laid flat in streets, cellar-window wells with a protective screen to keep animals or leaf-litter out of the well, vertical wrought-iron or steel-rod gates with narrow openings [less than 6-inches between bars], steel window-mesh to protect street-level windows from gravel, etc, etc.
He had absolutely no trauma associated with gates, horizontal grates, metal fencing, nothin' - they bought him direct from the breeder at 8-WO as a pre-reserved pup, he'd been reared indoors in the breeder's home in a room specially fitted for the pups, no ex-pens, no door-gate - the door was a solid-wood Dutch door.
The breeder's fence was solid cedar privacy-fence, 6-ft high. Gates were also solid to the ground, with stone paving under the gate - not grass, not mud, not rebar spikes, no wire fence or metal anywhere.

It took us 2-months to be able to walk him across a storm-drain in the street without him lurching wildly to one side, to avoid setting ONE paw on it. [But even with that, he'd prefer not to walk on it, & while walking, he'd never put more than 2 paws on the grate - he'd try to tread on it with just one paw, if at all possible, by walking to one side & placing only one forefoot on the grate, then making his spine slightly diagonal to shift the hind paw on that same side onto the street surface, or at least the grate-frame, not the "bars". I swear sometimes that dog levitated - we called his avoidance the "Berner ballet".]

What's inside the park? - grass, shrubs, trees? Scary big trashcans? Agility equipment that worries him?

- terry

.

 

[JoanneF]

I read an article a couple of years ago about allowing our dogs choice in their lives. They have very little choice normally - we dictate what they eat, when they eat, where and when they walk, and pretty much every other aspect of their daily lives. The article suggested that allowing them to make some choices for themselves would help with their confidence and happiness. So on our normal walks, if I am not meeting a friend and need to go a particular way, T decides - right out of the gate for the beach, left for the field. He chooses to cross the road before we get to the house with the barky dog. So my take on this is if there are alternatives, and he isn't happy in the park, why force the issue. Who knows why he doesn't like it, and does the reason even really matter - if there are other places where he is happy, I would go there instead.

 

[Mad Murphy]

I trust my dog if he says something isnt right or doesnt want to walk into a path or area of park I listen to him . Ive learned that my dogs often sense things I cant.

 

[JudyN]

Chances are that something has happened there, even if it's just that he stood on a sharp stone or heard a scary noise (that was out of your earshot). Has he always disliked it there or did it start suddenly or slowly develop?

I let Jasper make a lot of choices and I get the impression that this makes him more compliant when I do insist on something. I think it's because he knows that he can tell me what he'd like to do, and that I will listen, consider his request, and do what he wants if possible.

 

[Nanny71]

.

in the park itself, what's the substrate? - what's he walking on?
Birdshot or pea gravel can be very uncomfortable for dog's paws, birdshot is small & sharp, while pea-gravel is large & round; birdshot grinds at pads' traction surface & also pokes, vs pea gravel, which is hard & lumpy underfoot, & small ones can lodge between pads or toes when the paw s-p-r-e-a-d-s under the dog's wt, as they walk, or when they run & put more pressure on their paws, as they push off.

Astro-turf can be painfully hot in full sun, & can burn paw-pads just from solar radiation, or cause friction burns if the dogs run on it or slip.

U note that it's very secure - presumably that means fenced, & not easily escaped. // Is he accustomed to fences? Maybe he objects to the idea of a confining perimeter?
What KIND of fence? -
the visual appearance of certain fences can cause emotional reactions in some dogs; I worked with a M Berner whose owner came to me, concerned that his recall was poor & her then-BF was no help - he persisted in letting their dog run off-leash, & refused to use a long-line, or do any training.
But what we spent much-more time on was their 160# dog's absolute phobia of any GRATE - storm drains laid flat in streets, cellar-window wells with a protective screen to keep animals or leaf-litter out of the well, vertical wrought-iron or steel-rod gates with narrow openings [less than 6-inches between bars], steel window-mesh to protect street-level windows from gravel, etc, etc.
He had absolutely no trauma associated with gates, horizontal grates, metal fencing, nothin' - they bought him direct from the breeder at 8-WO as a pre-reserved pup, he'd been reared indoors in the breeder's home in a room specially fitted for the pups, no ex-pens, no door-gate - the door was a solid-wood Dutch door.
The breeder's fence was solid cedar privacy-fence, 6-ft high. Gates were also solid to the ground, with stone paving under the gate - not grass, not mud, not rebar spikes, no wire fence or metal anywhere.

It took us 2-months to be able to walk him across a storm-drain in the street without him lurching wildly to one side, to avoid setting ONE paw on it. [But even with that, he'd prefer not to walk on it, & while walking, he'd never put more than 2 paws on the grate - he'd try to tread on it with just one paw, if at all possible, by walking to one side & placing only one forefoot on the grate, then making his spine slightly diagonal to shift the hind paw on that same side onto the street surface, or at least the grate-frame, not the "bars". I swear sometimes that dog levitated - we called his avoidance the "Berner ballet".]

What's inside the park? - grass, shrubs, trees? Scary big trashcans? Agility equipment that worries him?

- terry

.

It is a large expanse mainly grass with trees around it. There is a track all round. Not sure what it is but not shingle (we never walk on shingle because he genuinely finds that uncomfortable). There is a play area for children which we don't go near. There is a skate park but the problem is even when it is not being used.
I hadn't thought about the gates. They are metal and bright yellow.
The field he loves where we walk the most, is about the same size. No path so if it is very wet I would prefer the park.
Should I persist, I have tried cutting through the park with him on his lead, and then going somewhere he really likes.
He is a very amenable, laid back dog and I would hate to be upsetting him.
I don't think he has ever liked it because he never has explored, always just stuck to me.
Had a bit of a giggle about the storm drain because my horse avoided drains as if they would swallow here. But she would tackle really demanding cross country courses without a qualms.
Maybe we just don't understand our animals as much as we would like to think

 

[Nanny71]

Chances are that something has happened there, even if it's just that he stood on a sharp stone or heard a scary noise (that was out of your earshot). Has he always disliked it there or did it start suddenly or slowly develop?

I let Jasper make a lot of choices and I get the impression that this makes him more compliant when I do insist on something. I think it's because he knows that he can tell me what he'd like to do, and that I will listen, consider his request, and do what he wants if possible.

It has got worse he has never really liked it. Never explored it and never left my side. Even if we are with a dog he knows he still sticks to me.
Because there is a paved track (not sure of the material) I like it if it is very wet.
I think I am going to leave the park for the rest of the summer and maybe try again in the winter.
He will be three in August so is becoming more mature.
He does know what and who he likes.

 

[Nanny71]

I trust my dog if he says something isnt right or doesnt want to walk into a path or area of park I listen to him . Ive learned that my dogs often sense things I cant.

I am going to give up on the park for the summer. Will probably try again in the winter when the field is wet and the park is drier

 

[Caro Perry]

I think skipping the park for now is a good idea.

Harri enjoys his walks more than I do and they are so important to him that he needs to get pleasure from them so I wouldn't see much point in taking him somewhere he really doesn't want to go.

(Its not that I mind walking but he is sooooo slow. It sometimes feels like he has to examine in minute detail every tree, plant and post we pass and it took us 4hrs to do 5 miles this morning....)

Would he respond to bribing with a treat storm when you do go back?

 

[leashedForLife]

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Maybe, once U return, U could think of something fun to do that only happens in the park?
Perhaps a flirt-pole could go along, & only be deployed there, on the path...
Or a special tuggee that has a "silent" squeak, on a rope? They have squeakies now that are audible only to dogs.

.

 

[Nanny71]

I think skipping the park for now is a good idea.

Harri enjoys his walks more than I do and they are so important to him that he needs to get pleasure from them so I wouldn't see much point in taking him somewhere he really doesn't want to go.

(Its not that I mind walking but he is sooooo slow. It sometimes feels like he has to examine in minute detail every tree, plant and post we pass and it took us 4hrs to do 5 miles this morning....)

Would he respond to bribing with a treat storm when you do go back?

I have tried using treats to persuade him to go,in but he just turns his head away. Apart from the pub and his Kong at night he is not very treat driven.
I have decided to try his monkey which is his favourite toy

 

[Nanny71]

.

Maybe, once U return, U could think of something fun to do that only happens in the park?
Perhaps a flirt-pole could go along, & only be deployed there, on the path...
Or a special tuggee that has a "silent" squeak, on a rope? They have squeakies now that are audible only to dogs.

.

What is a flirt pole?

 

[leashedForLife]

QUOTE, Nanny71:

What is a flirt pole?
_______________________
.


Most folks are familiar with fishing-pole toys for cats - they keep the human's hands out of claw range, & allow the person to make a toy skitter like a mouse across the floor, hop, slither, or fly, to encourage the cat to chase, pounce, bite, or even grab it & kick, in the case of larger toys.
A flirt pole is a similar toy, made for dogs - so it's sturdier, as a dog tugging will pull harder, but mostly it's to chase rather than to catch. U can make one at home, or buy 'em ready-made.

playing with a puppy

here's one in use as a training tool for self-control, plus Premack -
there are 2 dogs, a F b&w BC & a M dog who appears to be a Flatcoated Retriever:

Premack is a trainer's trick that rewards a dog for doing something they rarely do or don't much like to do, by letting them do a behavior they very-very MUCH like to do... i-e, "chase a squirrel" rather than "come when called".

In the 2nd video, she just tied a soft sock-toy onto the end of a buggy whip. Easy, not very expensive, fairly durable; replace the toy periodically, or use a sturdier one - a hunk of stuffed firehose, an unstuffed flat-furry with extra-heavy stitching, _______ .

- terry

.

 

[JudyN]

I'd be wary of trying to use treats or toys to entice him in there when it's clear he really doesn't want to be in there. At most, I'd be thinking of using them to entice him through the gate then say 'Yay!', give him his reward and let him leave again if he wants. If he comes to associate it with fun, and no pressure, he may choose to go in (and leave when he's ready), but that will probably take a while as he probably feels he has no choice. When you can choose whether to go somewhere or not, it can actually make that place seem less scary. And of course it will make him more confident if he knows he can tell you when he's had enough and that you will be listening.

 

[Nanny71]

QUOTE, Nanny71:

What is a flirt pole?
_______________________
.


Most folks are familiar with fishing-pole toys for cats - they keep the human's hands out of claw range, & allow the person to make a toy skitter like a mouse across the floor, hop, slither, or fly, to encourage the cat to chase, pounce, bite, or even grab it & kick, in the case of larger toys.
A flirt pole is a similar toy, made for dogs - so it's sturdier, as a dog tugging will pull harder, but mostly it's to chase rather than to catch. U can make one at home, or buy 'em ready-made.

playing with a puppy
I will have a try at making one.

here's one in use as a training tool for self-control, plus Premack -
there are 2 dogs, a F b&w BC & a M dog who appears to be a Flatcoated Retriever:

Premack is a trainer's trick that rewards a dog for doing something they rarely do or don't much like to do, by letting them do a behavior they very-very MUCH like to do... i-e, "chase a squirrel" rather than "come when called".

In the 2nd video, she just tied a soft sock-toy onto the end of a buggy whip. Easy, not very expensive, fairly durable; replace the toy periodically, or use a sturdier one - a hunk of stuffed firehose, an unstuffed flat-furry with extra-heavy stitching, _______ .

- terry

.

 

[Nanny71]

I'd be wary of trying to use treats or toys to entice him in there when it's clear he really doesn't want to be in there. At most, I'd be thinking of using them to entice him through the gate then say 'Yay!', give him his reward and let him leave again if he wants. If he comes to associate it with fun, and no pressure, he may choose to go in (and leave when he's ready), but that will probably take a while as he probably feels he has no choice. When you can choose whether to go somewhere or not, it can actually make that place seem less scary. And of course it will make him more confident if he knows he can tell you when he's had enough and that you will be listening.

I like your answer. We are away next week and he will get lots of new walks and hopefully some playing on the beach. No worries about the Park.
Had a lovely long walk today with his friend Betty. The two of them had a really good time, playing and running. Sniffing everywhere so we will leave the Park for now and concentrate on places he likes

 

[leashedForLife]

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for those who are confused, there was a little glitch in a reply -
Nanny71 said, QUOTE,

I will have a try at making one.
___________________________
.

sounds good - Will U post a video of Dudley playing with it? I'd love to see him enjoy it, & i'm sure many other members would, too.

cheers,
- terry

.

 

[Nanny71]

.

for those who are confused, there was a little glitch in a reply -

Nanny71 said, QUOTE,

I will have a try at making one.
___________________________
.

sounds good - Will U post a video of Dudley playing with it? I'd love to see him enjoy it, & i'm sure many other members would, too.

cheers,
- terry

.

I have tried to post a video previously but it tells me they are wrong format. I used MP3. Any suggestions

 

[Josie]

I have tried to post a video previously but it tells me they are wrong format. I used MP3. Any suggestions

You can only post a video through certain channels. I have attached a print screen of where you can post a video from.

 

[Josie]

I agree with the other comments, especially what Joanne said about walks being your dogs time.

I’ve had to really step back lately and realise that Dennis is getting older and if he enjoys sniffing every single bush and plodding along then that’s what we will do! I find it super frustrating because I am a fast walker and its really difficult to walk that slow.
Maybe I should start taking a book with me!....