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no you didnt actually name me,youd much rather name by association. :thumbsup:

as for farmers ive got a link to a list of hundreds of prosecutions by the rspca to farmers who have been prosecuted for appalling acts of cruelty.of course not all farmers are cruel but a lot of them becuase of the nature of the work they do become inured to the plight of an animals suffering.i dont for one minute think all farmers are cruel however

heres a article to why meat produced by these nice farmers isnt healthy for us.(the article is about veal calves by the way)but most farm animals are pumped full of antibiotics(steroids) and growth promoters,and a lot of the food we eat isnt healthy for us.i agree about the stuff thats put into burgers and chicken nuggets.most of it you would never eat if you knew what was in it.

just my ignorant opinion of course.i bow down to other peoples much greater knowledge about this and of course everything else under the sun :thumbsup:

The calves are generally fed a milk substitute intentionally lacking in iron and other essential nutrients. This diet keeps the animals anemic and creates the pale pink or white color desired in the finished product. Craving iron, the calves lick urine-saturated slats and any metallic parts of their stalls. Farmers also withhold water from the animals, who, always thirsty, are driven to drink a large quantity of the high-fat liquid feed.

Because of such extremely unhealthy living conditions and restricted diets, calves are susceptible to a long list of diseases, including chronic pneumonia and "scours," or constant diarrhea. Consequently, they must be given massive doses of antibiotics and other drugs just to keep them alive. (The antibiotics are passed on to consumers in the meat.) The calves often suffer from wounds caused by the constant rubbing against the crates.

About 14 weeks after their birth, the calves are slaughtered. The quality of this "food," laden with chemicals, lacking in fiber and other nutrients, diseased and processed, is another matter. The real issue is the calves' experience. During their brief lives, they never see the sun or touch the Earth. They never see or taste the grass. Their anemic bodies crave proper sustenance. Their muscles ache for freedom and exercise. They long for maternal care. They are kept in darkness except to be fed two to three times a day for 20 minutes. The calves have committed no crime, yet have been sentenced to a fate comparable to any Nazi concentration camp.
 
kris said:
no you didnt actually name me,youd much rather name by  association. :thumbsup:

as for farmers ive got  a link to a list of hundreds of prosecutions by the rspca to farmers who have been prosecuted for appalling acts of cruelty.of course not all farmers are cruel but a lot of them becuase of the nature of the work they do become inured to the plight of an animals suffering.i dont for one minute think all farmers are cruel however

heres a article to why meat produced by these nice farmers isnt healthy for us.(the article is about veal calves by the way)but most farm animals are pumped full of  antibiotics(steroids) and growth promoters,and a lot of the food we eat isnt healthy for us.i agree about the stuff thats put into burgers and chicken nuggets.most of it you would never eat if you knew what was in it.

just my ignorant opinion of course.i bow down to other  peoples  much greater knowledge about this and of course everything else under the sun :thumbsup:

The calves are generally fed a milk substitute intentionally lacking in iron and other essential nutrients. This diet keeps the animals anemic and creates the pale pink or white color desired in the finished product. Craving iron, the calves lick urine-saturated slats and any metallic parts of their stalls. Farmers also withhold water from the animals, who, always thirsty, are driven to drink a large quantity of the high-fat liquid feed.

Because of such extremely unhealthy living conditions and restricted diets, calves are susceptible to a long list of diseases, including chronic pneumonia and "scours," or constant diarrhea. Consequently, they must be given massive doses of antibiotics and other drugs just to keep them alive. (The antibiotics are passed on to consumers in the meat.) The calves often suffer from wounds caused by the constant rubbing against the crates.

About 14 weeks after their birth, the calves are slaughtered. The quality of this "food," laden with chemicals, lacking in fiber and other nutrients, diseased and processed, is another matter. The real issue is the calves' experience. During their brief lives, they never see the sun or touch the Earth. They never see or taste the grass. Their anemic bodies crave proper sustenance. Their muscles ache for freedom and exercise. They long for maternal care. They are kept in darkness except to be fed two to three times a day for 20 minutes. The calves have committed no crime, yet have been sentenced to a fate comparable to any Nazi concentration camp.

Totally agree with this Kris & for the record IGNORANT is one thing you are definitely NOT! :thumbsup:
 
ermmmmmmmmmmm veal calves in uk are no longer allowed to be raised in crates that was banned years ago!!!! :- " again buy british!!! :thumbsup:

i really wish people who do object to the slaughter of animals for food , would practice what they preach and eat / use NO animal products or by products at all , then their stand is worthy , until that day , its hypocrital to object and yet use the goods, or even feed their animals on other animal meats :thumbsup:
 
kris said:
The calves are generally fed a milk substitute intentionally lacking in iron and other essential nutrients. This diet keeps the animals anemic and creates the pale pink or white color desired in the finished product. Craving iron, the calves lick urine-saturated slats and any metallic parts of their stalls. Farmers also withhold water from the animals, who, always thirsty, are driven to drink a large quantity of the high-fat liquid feed.
Because of such extremely unhealthy living conditions and restricted diets, calves are susceptible to a long list of diseases, including chronic pneumonia and "scours," or constant diarrhea. Consequently, they must be given massive doses of antibiotics and other drugs just to keep them alive. (The antibiotics are passed on to consumers in the meat.) The calves often suffer from wounds caused by the constant rubbing against the crates.

About 14 weeks after their birth, the calves are slaughtered. The quality of this "food," laden with chemicals, lacking in fiber and other nutrients, diseased and processed, is another matter. The real issue is the calves' experience. During their brief lives, they never see the sun or touch the Earth. They never see or taste the grass. Their anemic bodies crave proper sustenance. Their muscles ache for freedom and exercise. They long for maternal care. They are kept in darkness except to be fed two to three times a day for 20 minutes. The calves have committed no crime, yet have been sentenced to a fate comparable to any Nazi concentration camp.

I have a friend from a farming background (arable farming mostly) - both she and her husband (both in their 60s) REFUSE to eat veal because they are aware of how it is "reared" and the poor sad lives the calves are forced to lead.

Isn't it utterly sad that baby animals have to live like that? It's no less sad for adult animals who have to live un-natural lives too, of course.
 
totally agree with you on that especially after watching the video of the Earthlings yesterday. I have grown up amongst farmers and yes have seen animals suffer (the bobby calves would have their throats cut and thrown to the sheepdogs), dogs being shot when not wanted or having got too old, seeing them being sent after sheep and then shot but ok at least they suffered no pain and died doing what they wanted, the care given to ill animals to keep them alive - each farmer is an individual and yes they do get hardened to suffering, seeing animals with limbs torn off after badger, fox, dog attacks does harden you. I was telling my neighbour (a farmer ) of the video and about the clip of the dogs being skinned and he was almost sick. As i also felt. At least our slaughter houses are humane in as much as they can be.
 
yes ive seen what goes on in slaughter houses abroad,and the conditions here are so much better. :thumbsup: but i think a lot of farmers are guilty of treating animals in a terrible way as they dont have an inspector breathing over their shoulder most of the time.i go on an irish site where they deal with farmers who breed off their collies on every season then run the pups on for 10 weeks to see which has potential.then shoot or drown the rest.(and they are the lucky ones,some others dont get as quick and clean a death) :( i think some of them cos theyre rearing animals for slaughter they just get that way same as slaughterhouse workers get, that they think of it as a 'unit' or a 'product' not a living, breathing, sentient creature
 
posh totty said:
ermmmmmmmmmmm veal calves in uk are no longer allowed to be raised in crates that was banned years ago!!!!  :- "  again buy british!!!  :thumbsup:
the quote doesnt mention crates it says their stalls.like in a cow shed.you know what stalls are dont you you with your farming background?

i really wish people who do object to the slaughter of animals for food , would practice what they preach and eat / use NO animal products or by products at all , then their stand is worthy , until that day , its hypocrital to object and yet use the goods, or even feed their animals on other animal meats  :thumbsup:

again noone on this thread has mentioned being a vegetarian and as far as i remember noone objected to the slaughter of animals for food. :blink: what we ARE objecting to is the way these animals are treated BEFORE they are slaughtered.i said i eat meat so did a number of other people. :) it isnt hypocritical to object to animals being kept in terrible conditions, it isnt hypocritical to object to a farmer treating his amimals in a less that humane manner, and it isnt hypocritical to want to change those things and to want to get better conditions for farm animals.
 
this is exactly what the programme set out to show that the animals here ARE raised humanely???? barn reared calves i have no problem what so ever with , they are free to move around , not crated or stalls , as we previously had in this country and animal welfare orgs are now putting in place banning of the crate rearing system, the large airy barns are free from cold and weather conditions, allowing an indoor environment which is a good practice allowing calves to still play with their kind , the programme set out to show how well the animals are treated from farm to table and whilst the actual slaughter process itself isnt a pleasant viewing for anyone at least by seeing they are raised well using the freedom food practice the slaughter is then also humane, something i consider a basic right, thankfully we have the highest standards in the world

the programme was right in its highlight to where our food comes from and how it gets to our plate, not ready wrapped from tescos etc, so many kids today just dont realise where their meat or milk etc comes from and whats done to put it on our plates
 
For people who are concerned about what is in their meat as well as how the animal lived its life, the answer is eat organic. There are very strict standards which have to be met in order for a producer to get the organic stamp - and they are a lot stricter than the freedom foods lable requirements. I am lucky that there is a very good farmers market near me, so i can stock up with organic meat, and know that it hasn't traveled far either.

I was vegetarian for about 16 years and have no problem with eating meat again, but i do have a real problem with how the animals have been treated prior to their arrival on my plate....and this is where personal ethics kick in - these are my considerations, and i do not claim that they are right, or better than anyone elses - just that they suit me;

I believe animals should live a life that is natural for their species. This means grass for sheep and cows to walk upon, ground for hens to scratch and water for ducks to swim . Barn rearing is better than stalls/crates, but not better enough for me to support it by buying the products.

Where animals are to be killed, death must happen as quickly and cleanly as possible. I believe shooting to be infinitely preferable to queuing at a slaughterhouse, as is the 15 second race between dog and rabbit for the hedge with either a swift end or well earned escape at the end of it.

I get very angry at the double standards we have in this country around what is acceptable treatment of an animal dependent on whether it is a species we call 'pet' or one we call 'food'. This means that the man who pieced his cat's ear to put a ring in it was prosecuted for animal cruelty, yet the farmer routinely shoots id tags through calves ears and that's fine- and a chicken may live its life in a crate standing on a layer of poo - but I would be prosecuted (I hope!) if that was how I housed my dogs.

And talking of double standards, I've found myself getting very annoyed in supermarket recently because whereas I used to have my pick of free range chickens, now I'm lucky to find a solitary pack of drumsticks. it was so much easier when only a few of us wanted free range - now how crap is that! lol
 
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i just hope more people are aware of what goes on to put meat on our tables, and then make their own choice from there, the supermarkets and the consumer are guilty of bad animal husbandry due to the demand of cheap meat, which then comes in from abroad where the animals are raised in hell!!! :rant:

farmers markets , organic and traditional butchers are that cut above the rest and standards of raising the animals is so much higher so i hope more people will choose to get their meat from this source :thumbsup:

what ever anyones opinion is the programme has worked , because here we are discussing our views on the subject :thumbsup:

heres the link from the last set of the series, i think this series has caused a change of attitudes as these were young animals being killed

http://www.k9community.co.uk/forums/index....opic=30399&st=0
 
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urchin said:
For people who are concerned about what is in their meat as well as how the animal lived its life, the answer is eat organic. There are very strict standards which have to be met in order for a producer to get the organic stamp - and they are a lot stricter than the freedom foods lable requirements. I am lucky that there is a very good farmers market near me, so i can stock up with organic meat, and know that it hasn't traveled far either.
I was vegetarian for about 16 years and have no problem with eating meat again, but i do have a real problem with how the animals have been treated prior to their arrival on my plate....and this is where personal ethics kick in - these are my considerations, and i do not claim that they are right, or better than anyone elses - just that they suit me;

I believe animals should live a life that is natural for their species. This means grass for sheep and cows to walk upon, ground for hens to scratch and water for ducks to swim . Barn rearing is better than stalls/crates, but not better enough for me to support it by buying the products.

Where animals are to be killed, death must happen as quickly and cleanly as possible. I believe shooting to be infinitely preferable to queuing at a slaughterhouse, as is the 15 second race between dog and rabbit for the hedge with either a swift end or well earned escape at the end of it.

I get very angry at the double standards we have in this country around what is acceptable treatment of an animal dependent on whether it is a species we call 'pet' or one we call 'food'. This means that the man who pieced his cat's ear to put a ring in it was prosecuted for animal cruelty, yet the farmer routinely shoots id tags through calves ears and that's fine- and a chicken may live its life in a crate standing on a layer of poo - but I would be prosecuted (I hope!) if that was how I housed my dogs.

And talking of double standards, I've found myself getting very annoyed in supermarket recently because whereas I used to have my pick of free range chickens, now I'm lucky to find a solitary pack of drumsticks. it was so much easier when only a few of us wanted free range - now how crap is that! lol

These tags cause no distress to the animal whatsoever...

my husband sells these tags as part of his job. This causes no more distress than someone having their ears pierced. Ive see animals tagged and they graze and carry on as normal and dont even notice they are there.

Its part of an identifcation for farm animals which is law in this country.
 
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posh totty said:
this is exactly what the programme set out to show that the animals here ARE raised humanely???? barn reared calves i have no problem what so ever with , they are free to move around , not crated or stalls , as we previously had in this country and animal welfare orgs are now putting in place banning of the crate rearing system, the large airy barns are free from cold and weather conditions, allowing an indoor environment which is a good practice allowing calves to still play with their kind , the programme set out to show how well the animals are treated from farm to table and whilst the actual slaughter process itself isnt a pleasant viewing for anyone at least by seeing they are raised well using the freedom food practice the slaughter is then also humane, something i consider a basic right, thankfully we have the highest standards in the world

sorry but although the abomination known as veal crates was banned in this country what i was talking about (and the point has been missed) is that the farmers were banned from doing this not by a self imposed ban but by government legislation in 1990.thats was the point i was trying to get across.not veal crates in particular but that farmers were quite happy to rear animals like that until the government stepped in and stopped it.also although veal crates are banned putting a calf into a small stall is still allowed although in a nod to its rights to have a small quality of life they are allowed to do so only if one of the  sides of the stall are slatted so giving the animal a view of its surroundings.yes it can turn around(just)but its quality of life is still seriously compromised by keeping it in these conditions for the first 8 weeks of its life.and were not talking here of the one in a a hundred farmers who has the animals  welfare as a top priority but the other 99 who are only concerned with money.

the programme was right in its highlight to where our food comes from and how it gets to our plate, not ready wrapped from tescos etc, so many kids today just dont realise where their meat or milk etc comes from and whats done to put it on our plates


i agree that any program that educates the public about what happens to animals and how they are treated in order to provide food for our tables is a good thing.however,i wonder how many people who buy their nice ready wrapped joint of beef from tescos would watch a program like this in the first place.ignorance is bliss and i think a lot of the great british public would rather not know these things as it might put them off buying it in the first place.of course some do want to know and some already do know. :thumbsup:
 
it was a very bold and potentially damaging programme to make in the beginning with the first series , however if some are brave enough to watch and by 1 person changing the way they shop, tell someone else etc etc and then act accordingly then imo its worth it , it may take shock tactics but at least the ANIMALS welfare and treatment is highlighted and standards can continue to raise :thumbsup:

stalls are also banned :thumbsup:
 
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Yes it was raised on the programme that people shop now and see meat all neatly wrapped on polystyrene plates and covered in cling film ..which often dosnt even represent part of an animal at all....so most people turn a blind eye...then cook it and eat it. In a butchers shop you would chose that piece of meat and even watch the butcher cut it up and prepare it.

I think people should be much more aware of where it comes from, how it got there, etc.

its amazing even how many kids that come around our open farm dont even know which animal provides milk.. (w00t)

or that hens lay eggs.. (w00t) or you could milk a ewe or goat

even some of the teachers frown if we as guides mention bacon sandwiches when we are near the pigs....surely we are trying to educate children about FOOD which as I was taught is the staff of life.
 
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Janimal said:
These tags cause no distress to the animal whatsoever...my husband sells these tags as part of his job.  This causes no more distress than someone having their ears pierced.  Ive see animals tagged and they graze and carry on as normal and dont even notice they are there.

Its part of an identifcation for farm animals which is law in this country.


I wasn't suggesting that ear tagging farm animals is cruel - just pointing out that piercing an animal's ear is viewed differently depending on whether it is deemed to be pet or food :)
 
nina said:
kris said:
no you didnt actually name me,youd much rather name by  association. :thumbsup:

as for farmers ive got  a link to a list of hundreds of prosecutions by the rspca to farmers who have been prosecuted for appalling acts of cruelty.of course not all farmers are cruel but a lot of them becuase of the nature of the work they do become inured to the plight of an animals suffering.i dont for one minute think all farmers are cruel however

heres a article to why meat produced by these nice farmers isnt healthy for us.(the article is about veal calves by the way)but most farm animals are pumped full of  antibiotics(steroids) and growth promoters,and a lot of the food we eat isnt healthy for us.i agree about the stuff thats put into burgers and chicken nuggets.most of it you would never eat if you knew what was in it.

just my ignorant opinion of course.i bow down to other  peoples  much greater knowledge about this and of course everything else under the sun :thumbsup:

The calves are generally fed a milk substitute intentionally lacking in iron and other essential nutrients. This diet keeps the animals anemic and creates the pale pink or white color desired in the finished product. Craving iron, the calves lick urine-saturated slats and any metallic parts of their stalls. Farmers also withhold water from the animals, who, always thirsty, are driven to drink a large quantity of the high-fat liquid feed.

Because of such extremely unhealthy living conditions and restricted diets, calves are susceptible to a long list of diseases, including chronic pneumonia and "scours," or constant diarrhea. Consequently, they must be given massive doses of antibiotics and other drugs just to keep them alive. (The antibiotics are passed on to consumers in the meat.) The calves often suffer from wounds caused by the constant rubbing against the crates.

About 14 weeks after their birth, the calves are slaughtered. The quality of this "food," laden with chemicals, lacking in fiber and other nutrients, diseased and processed, is another matter. The real issue is the calves' experience. During their brief lives, they never see the sun or touch the Earth. They never see or taste the grass. Their anemic bodies crave proper sustenance. Their muscles ache for freedom and exercise. They long for maternal care. They are kept in darkness except to be fed two to three times a day for 20 minutes. The calves have committed no crime, yet have been sentenced to a fate comparable to any Nazi concentration camp.

Totally agree with this Kris & for the record IGNORANT is one thing you are definitely NOT! :thumbsup:


As you are one yourself Dont think it matters.

Kris.... you put your side very well without insulting others, so I dont think that PT post ment you.

Did not see the Program so would not comment on it.
 
galty said:
nina said:
kris said:
no you didnt actually name me,youd much rather name by  association. :thumbsup:

as for farmers ive got  a link to a list of hundreds of prosecutions by the rspca to farmers who have been prosecuted for appalling acts of cruelty.of course not all farmers are cruel but a lot of them becuase of the nature of the work they do become inured to the plight of an animals suffering.i dont for one minute think all farmers are cruel however

heres a article to why meat produced by these nice farmers isnt healthy for us.(the article is about veal calves by the way)but most farm animals are pumped full of  antibiotics(steroids) and growth promoters,and a lot of the food we eat isnt healthy for us.i agree about the stuff thats put into burgers and chicken nuggets.most of it you would never eat if you knew what was in it.

just my ignorant opinion of course.i bow down to other  peoples  much greater knowledge about this and of course everything else under the sun :thumbsup:

The calves are generally fed a milk substitute intentionally lacking in iron and other essential nutrients. This diet keeps the animals anemic and creates the pale pink or white color desired in the finished product. Craving iron, the calves lick urine-saturated slats and any metallic parts of their stalls. Farmers also withhold water from the animals, who, always thirsty, are driven to drink a large quantity of the high-fat liquid feed.

Because of such extremely unhealthy living conditions and restricted diets, calves are susceptible to a long list of diseases, including chronic pneumonia and "scours," or constant diarrhea. Consequently, they must be given massive doses of antibiotics and other drugs just to keep them alive. (The antibiotics are passed on to consumers in the meat.) The calves often suffer from wounds caused by the constant rubbing against the crates.

About 14 weeks after their birth, the calves are slaughtered. The quality of this "food," laden with chemicals, lacking in fiber and other nutrients, diseased and processed, is another matter. The real issue is the calves' experience. During their brief lives, they never see the sun or touch the Earth. They never see or taste the grass. Their anemic bodies crave proper sustenance. Their muscles ache for freedom and exercise. They long for maternal care. They are kept in darkness except to be fed two to three times a day for 20 minutes. The calves have committed no crime, yet have been sentenced to a fate comparable to any Nazi concentration camp.

Totally agree with this Kris & for the record IGNORANT is one thing you are definitely NOT! :thumbsup:


As you are one yourself Dont think it matters.

Kris.... you put your side very well without insulting others, so I dont think that PT post ment you.

Did not see the Program so would not comment on it.

QUOTE]

kris said:
i dont THINK im an ignorant person but if you say so then of course i must be ;)
posh totty said:
(w00t)   i wasnt aware id named you but if ya say so  :thumbsup:

kris said:
no you didnt actually name me,youd much rather name by  association. :thumbsup:
:- "
 
WIGGLEY said:
again another post is becoming a slanging match :- "

a couple of days since last reply and you say this? :blink: dont understand your trying to stir this up.
 

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