Select Just One Whippet

[~JO~]

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well i have to say if picking using breed standard their is one bitch that stands out  ch.Mithirander panning for gold.super mover, correct size,lovely dark eye and expression quality through and through.

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I hate to be nitpicking, but the (UK) standard states nothing about eye colour.

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Quite correct and I notice this week in a Ch show critique from a non-breed specialist saying (and I am not quoting verbatim) on a particular dog that a darker eye would have been preferable. I do wish these people who insist on judging our breed would at least have the courtesy to read the standard the night before.

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Yes, Archie had this written about him in one of his critiques, by a breed specialist as well!!!

 

[dawn]

well i have to say if picking using breed standard their is one bitch that stands out  ch.Mithirander panning for gold.super mover, correct size,lovely dark eye and expression quality through and through.

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I hate to be nitpicking, but the (UK) standard states nothing about eye colour.

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Quite correct and I notice this week in a Ch show critique from a non-breed specialist saying (and I am not quoting verbatim) on a particular dog that a darker eye would have been preferable. I do wish these people who insist on judging our breed would at least have the courtesy to read the standard the night before.

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Eye colour should not influence decision making - surely making a comment that 'I' (whoever I is) would have preferred a 'darker eye' or she has a 'loveley dark eye' should not be a condemnation of either the judge nor the dog. (I have not read the specific critique so this may not be the case on this occasion)

 

[Seraphina]

Quite correct and I notice this week in a Ch show critique from a non-breed specialist saying (and I am not quoting verbatim) on a particular dog that a darker eye would have been preferable.  I do wish these people who insist on judging our breed would at least have the courtesy to read the standard the night before.

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I just wonder how many judges would Google Whippet Standard the night before show, and get the US version without realising. I know I did that :b , when I was not sure about something that we were discussing, I had a quick look and later found out the reason why I was wrong on that point. I was looking at American standard

 

[JAX]

Whilst judging whippets we are, Im sure all judging to our interpritation of the breed standard ,

As regards eye colour , I personnally would not want to LIVE with a dog with light eyes , I suppose it goes back to my riding days when an evil, light eyed pony bit me BUT when Im judging , :- " eye colour comes well down the list , but I might put a comment about `lovely dark eye` in my critique , cant SEE the problem with that :lol:

 

[bardmand]

All this to say that I think you may have actually misread, or read more into the comment of the writer who mentioned the dark eye.  I don't think the writer was  saying it was desireable, or in keeping with the standard, as I am pretty sure the Irish and English standards are compatible.

I am sure I read more into the comment than was intended. Still, I don't see any harm in making this point clear for any novices (or American judges ) out there who might just also read it that way.

BUT  when Im judging , :- " eye colour comes well down the list    , but I might put a comment about `lovely dark eye` in my critique , cant SEE the problem with that  :lol:

Well, perhaps it should not be a problem, but it does send out the message that you find dark eyes desirable. If a sufficient number of judges send out the same message, I think there is a very real possibility it might affect some people's breeding decisions. Which I think it should not.

I personally prefer a slightly lighter eye. Were I a judge, would I compliment the lovely light eyes of a dog? Perhaps, to a handler/owner, but not in a written critique.

 

[nina]

Whilst judging whippets we are, Im sure all judging to our interpritation of the breed standard ,

As regards eye colour , I personnally would not want to LIVE with a dog with light eyes , I suppose it goes back to my riding days when an evil, light eyed pony bit me BUT when Im judging , :- " eye colour comes well down the list , but I might put a comment about `lovely dark eye` in my critique , cant SEE the problem with that :lol:

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I totally agree with this Jax & whilst i certainly wouldn't penalise a dog in the ring for it, i also wouldn't want to live with a dog with light eyes.

I just love those really dark eyes with the black eye make up, but this is just a personal like for me & nothing to do with the standard what so ever, i suppose a bit like some people saying "i just love blue's or fawns etc", doesn't mean the other colours are incorrect to the standard but just a personal taste. :thumbsup:

 

[dessie]

All this to say that I think you may have actually misread, or read more into the comment of the writer who mentioned the dark eye.  I don't think the writer was  saying it was desireable, or in keeping with the standard, as I am pretty sure the Irish and English standards are compatible.

I am sure I read more into the comment than was intended. Still, I don't see any harm in making this point clear for any novices (or American judges ) out there who might just also read it that way.

BUT  when Im judging , :- " eye colour comes well down the list    , but I might put a comment about `lovely dark eye` in my critique , cant SEE the problem with that  :lol:

Well, perhaps it should not be a problem, but it does send out the message that you find dark eyes desirable. If a sufficient number of judges send out the same message, I think there is a very real possibility it might affect some people's breeding decisions. Which I think it should not.

I personally prefer a slightly lighter eye. Were I a judge, would I compliment the lovely light eyes of a dog? Perhaps, to a handler/owner, but not in a written critique.

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With a judge's hat on, as eye colour is immaterial, I would not even comment on it in my critique whatever my preference would be for living with a dog, the same as I would not comment about colour except to describe the dog initially e.g. 9 months brindle bitch or fawn dog. It should just be a statement of fact.

 

[playawhile]

Hi!

I am seeing a trend here in Sweden that judges (mainly none whippet persons from the continent) say eye colour should not be lighter than the coat colour. I actually approached a judge after the judging was finished as he hade done remarks about eyes being to light in a number of critiques and it upset me. He said that he personally preferred eye colour as dark as the coat (or darker). I pointed out that the FCI-standard (the English) allows for any eye colour. He was upset with me and said the it was his personal taste and I replied; so you have written your own standard? At this point he just turned around and walked away.....

What made me “mad” was that he apparently took eye colour in to consideration when placing the classes…..

Henrik Härling

 

[dessie]

Hi!
I am seeing a trend here in Sweden that judges (mainly none whippet persons from the continent) say eye colour should not be lighter than the coat colour. I actually approached a judge after the judging was finished as he hade done remarks about eyes being to light in a number of critiques and it upset me. He said that he personally preferred eye colour as dark as the coat (or darker). I pointed out that the FCI-standard (the English) allows for any eye colour. He was upset with me and said the it was his personal taste and I replied; so you have written your own standard? At this point he just turned around and walked away.....

What made me “mad” was that he apparently took eye colour in to consideration when placing the classes…..

Henrik Härling

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Good for you Henrik! You, as an exhibitor in Europe, get this opportunity to challenge the judges, unfortunately we don't as we have to wait at least a month before the dog papers publish the critiques. By that time it is far too late.

 

[bardmand]

Good for you Henrik!  You, as an exhibitor in Europe, get this opportunity to challenge the judges, unfortunately we don't as we have to wait at least a month before the dog papers publish the critiques.  By that time it is far too late.

I wish we could have both. At least here in Norway, critiques are not published. I should think at least some judges would put a bit more effort into judging to standard if they were.

 

[Karen]

What I see more and more of lately is big round eyes, now THAT I cant stand :x

Well done Henrik, I think judges should be question and asked to justify placings. Perhaps if they had to they may make a better more informed job. People pay lots of money for a judges opinion and it should be based on the standard not personal taste in eye or coat colour.

 

[dawn]

What I see more and more of lately is big round eyes, now THAT I cant stand :x

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Two Parts Here:

1 the 'offending' critique as copied from Our Dogs

I like his super type, shape and size. So well constructed. Lovely profile. Super head shape, proportions and typical expression which would be all the better with a darker eye. Pleasing forechest and front. Really good profile, topline and hindquarters. Moved out well with good extension and drive. One that is well worth top honours.

2 KC Standard as copied from The Kennel Club website

Eyes

Oval, bright, expression very alert.

As stated sveral times above - the colour level of dark/light relative to eye colour is NOT designated. Thus a simple comment such as typical expression which would be all the better with a darker eye

is just that - a comment.

However Karen's post re round eyes IS directly relevant to the 'breed standard' .

Concomitant with both posts is the reference to expression very alert

 

[JAX]

All this to say that I think you may have actually misread, or read more into the comment of the writer who mentioned the dark eye.  I don't think the writer was  saying it was desireable, or in keeping with the standard, as I am pretty sure the Irish and English standards are compatible.

I am sure I read more into the comment than was intended. Still, I don't see any harm in making this point clear for any novices (or American judges ) out there who might just also read it that way.

BUT  when Im judging , :- " eye colour comes well down the list    , but I might put a comment about `lovely dark eye` in my critique , cant SEE the problem with that  :lol:

Well, perhaps it should not be a problem, but it does send out the message that you find dark eyes desirable. If a sufficient number of judges send out the same message, I think there is a very real possibility it might affect some people's breeding decisions. Which I think it should not.

I personally prefer a slightly lighter eye. Were I a judge, would I compliment the lovely light eyes of a dog? Perhaps, to a handler/owner, but not in a written critique.

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WHY not ? Why would you want to breed a litter that could have a most beautiful bitch/dog who to you ( and lets be honest , we do breed for US, well I do ) isnt pleasing to look at . When you look at any animal ,or person for that matter the first thing you see is their face :b and if you arnt happy with what you see :- "

I know people who do like lighter eyes , but its as NINA said , some dont like Fawns or parti colours . I really cant see whats wrong with `lovely dark eyes` , same as putting `smart brindle` etc surely

 

[dawn]

When you look at any animal ,or person for that matter the first thing you see is their face :b   and if you arnt happy with what you see  :- "

Political hot potato at the moment JAX.

As Richard and I were joking earlier about judges who look at the wrong end of the lead and suggested everyone should wear the Burka (?sp) and veil. I suppose it could be a case of looking at the shoes "Ah-ha I know who XXX is as (s)he always wears green shoes with pink bows"

 

[nina]

I know people who do like lighter eyes , but its as NINA said , some dont like Fawns or parti colours . I really cant see whats wrong with `lovely dark eyes` , same as putting `smart brindle` etc surely

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Jax, I see it the same as judges who put for example "beautiful feminine bitch" or " very masculine dog"

In our breed standard it does not state that a bitch HAS to look feminine any more than a male has to look masculine BUT it is just an observation by the judge on the day that they have commented on. :thumbsup:

I think most people will agree that although it is NOT in the breed standard we ALL like a dog to look a dog & a bitch to look a bitch.

 

[Seraphina]

Jax, I see it the same as judges who put for example  "beautiful feminine bitch" or " very masculine dog"
In our breed standard it does not state that a bitch HAS to look feminine any more than a male has to look masculine BUT it is just an observation by the judge on the day that they have commented on.  :thumbsup:

I think most people will agree that although it is NOT in the breed standard we ALL like a dog to look a dog & a bitch to look a bitch. 

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While this is not in standard surely that is (or at leats should be) something that does not need to be stressed. In every breed and every species of animal there is a difference between male and female, which is caused by the male or female hormons influence on the body = males having more muscle and bone etc. If we cannot tell a dog from a bitch without looking between his legs then we have a problem.

 

[Seraphina]

Good for you Henrik!  You, as an exhibitor in Europe, get this opportunity to challenge the judges, unfortunately we don't as we have to wait at least a month before the dog papers publish the critiques.  By that time it is far too late.

I wish we could have both. At least here in Norway, critiques are not published. I should think at least some judges would put a bit more effort into judging to standard if they were.

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Yes, i think it is excellent idea to have critiques, preferably instant but even month later would be nice. While it can be occasionally embarrassing for the judge, it is also a learning opportunity for them. Hopefully, they can learn from their mistakes. If they do not need to justify their decision they may go on for years penalizing dogs for their light eyes etc.

 

[nina]

While this is not in standard surely that is (or at leats should be) something that does not need to be stressed.  In every breed and every species of animal there is a difference between male and female, which is caused by the male or female hormons influence on the body = males having more muscle and bone etc.  If we cannot tell a dog from a bitch without looking between his legs then we have a problem.

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Whilst this may be so, i am just pointing out that it is still something that is commented upon by many judges both Breed Specialists & all rounders.

So are we to assume that anything that is not in the breed standard can not or should not be commented on?

Just a question, as it is difficult, reading critiques many things can be misconstrued & it is often easy to say that the judge obviously did not understand the breed standard when infact perhaps they were merely stating a personal like or dislike.

Just a thought :thumbsup:

 

[Kenzongos]

Lovely topic-lovely whippets!

I adored a lot Nutshell of Nevedith and Rothbury Rust Bucket!

From this K9 Community -site I found lately just a lovely builded and -shaped, lovely sounded bitch with curves and attitude, WOW! :thumbsup:

 

[Seraphina]

While this is not in standard surely that is (or at leats should be) something that does not need to be stressed.  In every breed and every species of animal there is a difference between male and female, which is caused by the male or female hormons influence on the body = males having more muscle and bone etc.  If we cannot tell a dog from a bitch without looking between his legs then we have a problem.

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Whilst this may be so, i am just pointing out that it is still something that is commented upon by many judges both Breed Specialists & all rounders.

So are we to assume that anything that is not in the breed standard can not or should not be commented on?

Just a question, as it is difficult, reading critiques many things can be misconstrued & it is often easy to say that the judge obviously did not understand the breed standard when infact perhaps they were merely stating a personal like or dislike.

Just a thought :thumbsup:

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I think the difference is commenting on something like the eyes, which seem to suggest that the dog would have been placed differently if the eyes were darker (or lighter). Personal likes and dislikes of points, which are immaterial to the breed, should only come to play part if the judge has to choose between 2 absolutely equal dogs.

And yes critiques can be misconstrued, just as everybody interprets the standard little bit differently, but therefore it is good if people do aproach the judge and ask what exactly did he/she mean. Even if it is few weeks later, we should be able to email the judge and politely discuss the point you did not understand or disagree with.