Some Surrey Hill Whippet Pups

[TC]

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The pups look fab :wub: but that 'Hungry Pup....wants to know what is taking so long' picture kills me (w00t)

The look on his face is just priceless :*

 

[georgina]

I really love the Chelsea lines and these babies are just beautiful - best of luck with them - Butters is just :wub: :wub: :wub:

 

[whippynit]

Beautiful young whippys :wub: I would def find it interesting to follow this thread on their progress :thumbsup:

 

[kierpark]

Lovely Pups :wub: :wub:

 

[doris]

'bout bloomin time!!! thought I was gonna have to jump on a plane and see them for myself :angry: :lol:

They are adorable :wub: Hungry Pup is too cute, bless him :huggles:

 

[Alba]

nice photos; I especially like Kentucky Wonder

what do you consider distinctive about American type whippets?

what are the differences between American and British types?

are there other identifiable national types (for instance French)?

 

[alfyn]

Absolutely gorgeous :wub:

 

[anniewhippet]

Very nice pups, lovely pics especially Butters, you must be very proud of them. Good luck :luck:

Would be interested to watch their progress too

 

[Macha]

nice photos; I especially like Kentucky Wonderwhat do you consider distinctive about American type whippets?

what are the differences between American and British types?

are there other identifiable national types (for instance French)?

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there is a bit of discussion on that topic at:

http://www.k9community.co.uk/forums/index....27entry115027

and

http://www.k9community.co.uk/forums/index....97entry462797

 

[seaspot_run]

nice photos; I especially like Kentucky Wonderwhat do you consider distinctive about American type whippets?

what are the differences between American and British types?

are there other identifiable national types (for instance French)?

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there is a bit of discussion on that topic at:

http://www.k9community.co.uk/forums/index....27entry115027and

http://www.k9community.co.uk/forums/index....97entry462797

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I think that I would only care to comment on that subject after having seen large and representative entries in those countries "in the flesh". We do pose our dogs and photograph them differently. I've seen Aussie imports (and bred one and co-own another) but until I actually get to go there (hint hint), I don't think I should comment on the differences very much. But I've seen Crufts and I've judged a large entry and now I'm prepared to comment about some of the similarities and differences between here and the UK.

I think that there are a lot of stereotypes and misconceptions on both sides of the Atlantic about each others' Whippets. I hear and read some things from British breeders who have never been here and seen a big US entry in the flesh, and I shake my head. And then I hear stuff spouted by Americans who haven't been to the UK and watched a big entry like Crufts and shake my head some more.

A lot of American fanciers think that everything that is liked in England still looks like Ch. Wingedfoot Marksman of Allways, which is why whenever a UK judge has an assignment here, the people with small, short-coupled dogs with extreme toplines all enter, and then are puzzled when they don't do anything.

As I commented on one of the linked threads, there was much positive comment about the photos of some of my top placers from the EAWC Open Show. One comment that was frequently made was that people didn't expect to see dogs with clean, elegant necks and leaner heads in the UK. The stereotype is stuffy and bucket-headed. That's as wrong as saying all US dogs have stick-straight front ends and overangulated rears.

Fanciers don't study breed history like they used to. It was a UK dog who really brought the long necks into this country and "fixed" them in so many lines--Ch. Greenbrae Barn Dance. There were others, but he was a HUGE influence on neck length and the dogs line and inbred to him were very often swans and giraffes. Why wouldn't there still be long, clean, elegant necks to be found in the UK? Where do they think our necks originally came from?

With regard to the specific puppies in this thread, one thing that makes them American style is that unlike some of my other dogs, I expect them to finish out towards the upper end of our height standard, which is too large to show successfully anywhere but North America. Another thing is that some of them (Butters, mainly) is not going to have the characteristic underline of a UK or Aussie dog. AND they will tend to have leaner heads with less width between the eyes than would make for a correct English head (but it is correct under the wording of the US standard).

I have UK, American, and Australian/UK breeding in my household which I look at every day. I think, markings and pigment aside, that the USA dogs are closer to the current style in outline favored in the UK than the Australian dogs are, which is interesting considering the predominance of UK breeding in many of the top Australian kennels and lines.

This is really a loaded question to ask. Obviously, I think all three countries have much to offer, or I'd not have bothered to incorporate those lines into mine.

One thing I'll say is that most of the time when judges come HERE to judge from outside the North America continent, and especially from countries who think they have strength in Whippets and even superiority in type and style, they seem to find the same dang dogs and bloodlines who win all the time over here under OUR judges. So, obviously, it's not that our concept of what makes for a good Whippet is THAT different. They can look at our entries, and usually end up with the same dogs in the hunt at the end of the day as any good US judge would find.

UK judges are the most likely among the international contingent to come up with something a bit different than the usual suspects, but even they don't stray too far from what wins easily over here under judges who learned to judge Whippets looking only at American dogs.

I think it's pretty hard to judge in the opposite direction, though.

I found the different presentation much more difficult to find my way past in my own UK assignment than I did the outlines or conformation of the dogs. They really weren't all that different from a lot of what we see over here. Just minus a few extremes in size towards the upper end and different heads and more "iffy" ears than one would usually find in a US entry. It's good ringcraft, for the most part, and the dogs were well-trained and clean for the most part, but the dogs were just stacked and gaited differently. I would say that the style of presentation of Whippets was more characteristic of what we see in the US in the terrier ring. It's what you're used to. I'm not saying one is better or worse, just that people are used to seeing a breed shown a certain way and it takes a little while to adjust to looking at a different presentation style. A tight lead is not encouraged in our Whippet rings.

The USA is a huge country and we have regional styles, but there is also so much sharing and blending of bloodlines from all over (and this also includes Canada) that there are examples of pretty much all our regional styles which can be found wherever you go. Eastern Canada is still most influenced by UK style and blood, but this is changing.

There is great interest in international lines on the part of many US breeders, and I think that this is nothing new, either. I would say that there is a desire for mutual respect and the benefits of opening up the gene pool. Any student of breed history in the USA knows how very much we owe to the English Whippet for the dogs that we see and love in our rings today.

US Whippets have won well wherever they've been exported--the main issue is size, not make and shape. It's a fact that many of our more admired dogs here are too large to win anything much outside North America. And the ones that go big tend to look more greyhoundy in style. That's to be expected.

But we have plenty more that are well with size. My best young bitch is only 19 3/8"--I've seen BOB winners at Crufts who are bigger than she is.

And she's all American back to the fifth generation or more. Nev Newton found her easily at a prestige show and gave her one of her majors. He didn't know me from Adam.

It's fair to say we penalize light eyes here more and that particolors do most of the big winning, but beyond that, I don't think our dogs are THAT different. I could relate to the structure and outlines just fine. They weren't apples and oranges to me. I saw dogs in the UK that would win very well here. And I saw big winners there which would not. The same is true of the US dogs with regard to their chances in the UK. Some would do great, others would be very very badly off-type.

Karen Lee

 

[seaspot_run]

This is the mother of the pups I will post photos of on this thread.

She has a really good underline and is very sound in gait, with clean lines and a very good head type.

I would say she's shorter-bodied and with less bend of stifle than I think would do well in England, but the primary thing that makes her more American in style is that she is 21" at the shoulder, and therefore MUCH too big to win anywhere but the US or Canada. She's a good oval (bend racer) and has produced some speed, and has speed in her pedigree (for a showbred).

However, her grandsire is Int.Ch. Paris Panther, a dog who definitely was successful and used a lot on the Continent and has many descendants in the rings today.

Her pedigree up front comprises mostly American and some older western Canadian dual (race/show) lines, but like everything else over here, eventually goes back to some combination of Barn Dance and Eng.Ch. Baydale Cinnamon.

She's an important bitch for me, but I would call her American in style.

Her first litter, by Am.Aust.Ch. Byerley Savile Row, did have dogs who could be shown internationally. Her son I kept from that litter is barely BARELY 21" at the shoulder and looks smaller.

Karen Lee

 

[seaspot_run]

Butters, again. Too cute not to share.

His brother is here boarding now and hopefully I can get some photos this weekend.

 

[alfie]

Butters, again.  Too cute not to share.

His brother is here boarding now and hopefully I can get some photos this weekend.

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I really think Butters needs to come over here to stay with me- he is DEFINITELY too cute not to share! :wub: :huggles:

Liz and the Monellis

 

[seaspot_run]

Butters, again.  Too cute not to share.

His brother is here boarding now and hopefully I can get some photos this weekend.

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I really think Butters needs to come over here to stay with me- he is DEFINITELY too cute not to share! :wub: :huggles:

Liz and the Monellis

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I was talking with a friend today and we both agreed that fawn Whippets look AWESOME on (or in) PURPLE.

:thumbsup: f

Butters has an owner who is attached at present, but maybe he chews some shoes, she might be willing to share.

:unsure:

 

[seaspot_run]

Here is "Kohl"--Surrey Hill's White Vienna, at four months of age. He's here boarding with me for the week.

[SIZE=14pt]"show side":[/SIZE]

"off side", and not the best angle....(Kohl is now too big to fit on my puppy stacking table! :unsure: