Speying

[Lynn-Alexandria]

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Listen...there is no need to be like that ok. We are merely expressing an opinion...there is no need to get nasty about it. I am not saying that we live in a perfect world. And people have different views on what is perfect. It is a case of people being responsible. People express an opinion, they are free to do so. There is absolutley no need for being mean to peoplefor merely expressing an opinion. This started out as a simple debate and has turned into something else.

 

[dessie]

and i do still think it is insane to specify that anyone who buys a pup from you cannot neuter it!!! in fact i think it is irresponsible!are they allowed to feed them crap food or leave them in kennels or go out to work or do you monitor that too?

you should be concerned about how much they will be loved and cared for not concentrate on your extreme views.....you are entitled to your opinion but that is all it is...

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Why are my views (and you are quite right, they are my views to which I am perfectly entitled) so extreme and irresponsible??? there is at least two other K9ers who agree with me!!

And yes I do monitor that they are not being fed crap food, put into kennels or that the prospective owners do not go out to work and leave the dog alone for hours on end.

It is because I love and care for them and want the best life possible for those that I do not keep that I do my utmost to get, what I consider, the right owners for them. At the end of the day, they are MY puppies that I have brought into the world and I am responsible for them so I can put my stipulations in a puppy contract and if those prospective purchasers do not want to comply then they do not have one of my puppies. Simple as that.

Yes I am entitled to my opinion and that is all it is .............. the same as yours.

But I still do not understand why anyone would want to inflict major surgery on a perfectly healthy animal just because.

 

[Seraphina]

Breeders who insist that their dogs are not spayed then explain to the new owners on how to prevent such measures.  I am not saying that accidents dont happen, but new owners will need to be aware on how to deal with their bitch when she comes into season.

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....and if they have good fences there is no problem. When people know not to walk their bitches out of the house while in season they will not be bothered by "admirers". I just carry my bitch to the car and drive somewhere where she can run. Bitch in season is not a problem.

Dogs lived with humans for thousands of years, desexing is only being done for the past 50 (?) and in such sweeping way only in the past 10.

I grew up in Europe where desexing was not done. When i was about 10 we went to the only pound servicing the whole city of 1 000 000 people. There were only about dozen of dogs, mostly because their owners died. Even now many European countries do not routinely desex, yet they have less stray problem than the USA and Australia, with our strongly pro desexing opinion.

 

[~whitecross whippets~]

Listen...there is no need to be like that ok.  We are merely expressing an opinion...there is no need to get nasty about it.  I am not saying that we live in a perfect world.  And people have different views on what is perfect.  It is a case of people being responsible.  People express an opinion, they are free to do so.  There is absolutley no need for being mean to peoplefor merely expressing an opinion.  This started out as a simple debate and has turned into something else.

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excuse me... be like what?.... i have written several times on this forum under various topics and i am always the one who suggests every one should keep an open mind and people should not be bullied!...and if you look on the thread at the start i have had several people (usually the same ones) who all have one opinion and argue forever and a day until everyone gives up...well im not going to change my views when i think some of the comments are completley irresponsible!

i have had several pms from different people who agree with me on different things and are too frightened to join in on k9 in case of being slaughtered by certain people...is that a fair forum..do not suggest i am the one one who does not allow free speech!

 

[BeeJay]

>Why are my views (and you are quite right, they are my views to which I am perfectly entitled) so extreme and irresponsible??? there is at least two other K9ers who agree with me!!

 

And yes I do monitor that they are not being fed crap food, put into kennels or that the prospective owners do not go out to work and leave the dog alone for hours on end.

It's a poor world if you can't try to ensure that the pups that you have bred go to homes where they will be looked after the way that you with all your experience think that they should be.

IMO if more breeders cared as much as you do then there wouldn't be the number of unwanted dogs in GB.

There is a reason that there aren't that many whippets in rescue and it isn't just because there aren't that many bred. It's because the vast majority of whippet breeders really care what kind of home their puppies go to. You want a whippet pup then expect to be grilled. About what you are going to feed them on, where they are going to sleep, what holiday arrangements you are going to make for them, etc etc etc.

 

[saraquele]

i agree that any dog in a responsible home should not need to be speyed but is it so wrong to spey them if they are only going to be a family pet ?

but why would you want to put them through major surgery if it wasn't necessary??
Quite so, my point exactly!

So its just a family pet well mine are all first and formost family pets two of whom we have decided NOT to have a litter from but I wouldnt dream of having them speyed.

Mine are pets first and foremost also, not breeding machines. I would not force a bitch to be mated either, hence why little old Sophie remained a professional virgin!!

Dessie this is getting quite a regular thing u and me agreeing (w00t) and its only January:-"

I know (w00t) but mine still go out nice and snug in their lovely warm coats!! LOL! :thumbsup:

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MY DOGS TOO ARE FIRST AND FOREMOST FAMILY PETS :thumbsup:

all i meant was most people on here have dogs that we show / race course etc and we want offspring to carry on our lines , i personally dont intend to have mine speyed unless it is needed for medical reasons .

im talking about people who get dogs from rescues or "bad" breeders who dont follow up on their pups .

should this not be a consideration for the hundres / thousands of unwanted animals put to sleep each year because of too many stray dogs ?

DAWN WHAT HAVE YOU STARTED (w00t)

HOPE YOUR FEELING BETTER SOON :luck: :thumbsup: (w00t)

 

[Lynn-Alexandria]

Twice you have said that we dont live in a perfect world. Once you have asked what planet someone is on. There is no need for comments like that. All we are doing is expressing an opinion, there is no need for it to get nasty or personal in any way. And I am not saying that you do not allow free speech. What I am saying is that there is no need for the comments that have followed.

 

[BeeJay]

>should this not be a consideration for the hundres / thousands of unwanted animals put to sleep each year because of too many stray dogs ?

But the bad breeder isn't going to neuture they are already churning out dogs and will continue to do so.

Pet owners are perfectly capable of owning an entire dog and not letting it breed without resort to surgery.

As I said earlier. Most of the lurchers, greyhounds, and farm bred collies that are pts in GB every year are bred deliberately. They aren't bred by pet owners. They are bred too work and are surplus to requirements. That's without taking into account puppy farmed dogs.

And if someone thinks that these don't make up the majority of dogs in pounds and rescues then take a trip to your local one and have a look.

 

[~whitecross whippets~]

Twice you have said that we dont live in a perfect world.  Once you have asked what planet someone is on.  There is no need for comments like that.  All we are doing is expressing an opinion, there is no need for it to get nasty or personal in any way.  And I am not saying that you do not allow free speech.  What I am saying is that there is no need for the comments that have followed.

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i say that we dont live in a perfect world because i am frustrated by the fact that i actually agree with what is being said..it just isnt like that in the real world i only wish it was!

and as for the comment about what planet you were living on...i said that some dogs develop sexually related problems and my answer was"utter rubbish" from someone...who is being rude there then?

 

[BeeJay]

We all live in the real world. It's where we have developed our viewpoints.

 

[Lynn-Alexandria]

Exactly...well said Beejay.

 

[Seraphina]

[
It is because I love and care for them and want the best life possible for those that I do not keep that I do my utmost to get, what I consider, the right owners for them.  At the end of the day, they are MY puppies that I have brought into the world and I am responsible for them so I can put my stipulations in a puppy contract and if those prospective purchasers do not want to comply then they do not have one of my puppies.  Simple as that.

Yes I am entitled to my opinion and that is all it is .............. the same as yours.

[SIZE=14pt]But I still do not understand why anyone would want to inflict major surgery on a perfectly healthy animal just because.[/SIZE]

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Absolutely, and I always shudder when peiople say they want to spay because having a bitch in season would be "too much trouble". Person who says that is not getting pup from me. Although unfortunately, people here have been brainwashed into beliving it is the right and responsible thing to do, so most pet owners will have their bitches desexed, especially as their vets insist and bully them into it. i feel i succeed if i manage to persuade them to wait until the dog is mature. And now the new law will prevent me even doing that :rant: ....and nobody else seem to care.

 

[saraquele]

>should this not be a consideration for the hundres / thousands of unwanted animals put to sleep each year because of too many stray dogs ?
But the bad breeder isn't going to neuture they are already churning out dogs and will continue to do so. 

Pet owners are perfectly capable of owning an entire dog and not letting it breed without resort to surgery.

As I said earlier.  Most of the lurchers, greyhounds, and farm bred collies that are pts in GB every year are bred deliberately.  They aren't bred by pet owners.  They are bred too work and are surplus to requirements.  That's without taking into account puppy farmed dogs.

And if someone thinks that these don't make up the majority of dogs in pounds and rescues then take a trip to your local one and have a look.

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i saw it dailey for 5 yrs , ive seen enough perfectly healthy dogs pts because their arnt any homes for them

i mean the people who adopt the dog from a rescue , not the bad breeders themselves :thumbsup:

i personally can see both sides of the coin ( well i am a libran :- " )

their are 10000s of dogs in great homes that do not need neutering , but their are others who should be to stop more strays .

all the large organisations try to educate people on the welfare of animals , but it isnt working for some people .

i am talking about all dogs , not just the ones lucky enough to be in a suitable , knowledgable home :thumbsup:

 

[~whitecross whippets~]

Absolutely, and I always shudder when peiople say they want to spay because having a bitch in season would be "too much trouble". Person who says that is not getting pup from me. Although unfortunately, people here have been brainwashed into beliving it is the right and responsible thing to do, so most pet owners will have their bitches desexed, especially as their vets insist and bully them into it. i feel i succeed if i manage to persuade them to wait until the dog is mature. And now the new law will prevent me even doing that :rant: ....and nobody else seem to care.

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who said having a bitch in season was too much trouble? can you help me i couldnt seem to find that post??

 

[~whitecross whippets~]

We all live in the real world.  It's where we have developed our viewpoints.

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ok....lets say an average family with 2.2 kids decide to get a dog....if a survey was done how many of those people do you think have unneutered pets?

and if you convinced them all not to spay/castrate them how many of those average people(and remember the real world not the ideal one) would end up with unwanted puppies or escaped dogs that had been killed by a car?

 

[Lynn-Alexandria]

We all live in the real world.  It's where we have developed our viewpoints.

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ok....lets say an average family with 2.2 kids decide to get a dog....if a survey was done how many of those people do you think have unneutered pets?

and if you convinced them all not to spay/castrate them how many of those average people(and remember the real world not the ideal one) would end up with unwanted puppies or escaped dogs that had been killed by a car?

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If those owners were responsible then they should have done their research on dogs. They should have read up on what responsibility comes with having a dog. And if they do not want to have to deal with a bitch in season then they should get a dog rather than a bitch.

Oh yeah and its comments like "(and remember the real world not the ideal one)" that i was referring to. We are not idiots on this forum...i think we all know what the ideal world is.

 

[Lynn-Alexandria]

We all live in the real world.  It's where we have developed our viewpoints.

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ok....lets say an average family with 2.2 kids decide to get a dog....if a survey was done how many of those people do you think have unneutered pets?

and if you convinced them all not to spay/castrate them how many of those average people(and remember the real world not the ideal one) would end up with unwanted puppies or escaped dogs that had been killed by a car?

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If those owners were responsible then they should have done their research on dogs. They should have read up on what responsibility comes with having a dog. And if they do not want to have to deal with a bitch in season then they should get a dog rather than a bitch.

Oh yeah and its comments like "(and remember the real world not the ideal one)" that i was referring to. We are not idiots on this forum...i think we all know what the ideal world is.

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im gonna rephrase cause i messed up that last one. We all know what the difference is between the real world and an ideal one.

 

[~whitecross whippets~]

We all live in the real world.  It's where we have developed our viewpoints.

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ok....lets say an average family with 2.2 kids decide to get a dog....if a survey was done how many of those people do you think have unneutered pets?

and if you convinced them all not to spay/castrate them how many of those average people(and remember the real world not the ideal one) would end up with unwanted puppies or escaped dogs that had been killed by a car?

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If those owners were responsible then they should have done their research on dogs. They should have read up on what responsibility comes with having a dog. And if they do not want to have to deal with a bitch in season then they should get a dog rather than a bitch.

Oh yeah and its comments like "(and remember the real world not the ideal one)" that i was referring to. We are not idiots on this forum...i think we all know what the ideal world is.

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im gonna rephrase cause i messed up that last one. We all know what the difference is between the real world and an ideal one.

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ok i will apoligise about saying you do not live in the real world if you tell me that the majority of average dog owners in the world do not spay their animals? because the real world to me is the world where we judge the norm by the majority...it may not be right but that is not my point

 

[BeeJay]

>i personally can see both sides of the coin ( well i am a libran )

:thumbsup:

Not as bad as me though 'cause I'm a gemini. :lol:

 

[Lynn-Alexandria]

I am not going to tell you anything of the sort whitecross. I am not going to agree with you because you apologised. I know that when I buy a dog regardless of my experience as a dog trainer I will listen to what that breeder has to say. And that is the case with the other people out there who buy a dog.

The point is we live in a world where animals cannot speak for themsevles. And we as owners AND breeders must do the speaking for them. However, if someone came to me tomorrow and said to me "you are getting fixed becuase I dont want you having children" I would politely tell them to go take a run and jump. I have a responsibility not to get pregnant, dogs do not have that luxury, but they also dont have the luxury of saying no to a needless operation.