Stud Dogs

[Vicky]

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Can i be rude and ask your name, i feel awful replying without your name sorry!!!

Your right in what you say yes they can come from the  bitch's side but if you've got an idea that your bitch has produced or was in a litter with bulls then you don't want to go to a dog that will increase the chances of her throwing them.  A lot of the bulls nowadays comes from Marillion / Dream Vision breeding but these 2 also threw fabulous dogs so it didn't stop people going to them, Micks Mystery threw bully to my bitch also.

We have had a lot of Bully pups which aren't usually hard to find pet homes for (some bully pups you can't tell untill about 12 weeks - we have a bitch that was tiny up until 10 weeks and then her muscles just started getting bigger & bigger) but along with the bullyness come a lot of undershot dogs (when the bottom jaw is shorter than the top) you can usually tell these before 8 weeks, but i have also had a pup that looked to be undershot and then went ok.  

I must add i have never known a bully dog that has made anything of itself, stocky dogs yeh but bully no.

(Edited by Vicky at 8:37 pm on Jan. 5, 2002)

 

[michelle]

I would say yes if it is a major league bull, we bred a litter 6 years ago maddison(21lb)+blue monday(32lb) we had a litter of 3 dogs 3 bitches and 1 of the bitches was a staff on whippets legs!!!!(weighed 48lb and not very tall) the others were 14lb, 19lb, 20lb, 22lb,26lb(racing weights,as they are either pets or occasional racers they are slightly heavier now). Anyway the story of the bull(now called cleo)was, was that we advertised the pups and apart from cleo they had all gone, a man rang up asking if we had any pups left, we said we had but it was'nt a whippet as you know it, he was at our house 1/2 hr later and instantley fell in love with her:biggrin:, she is now a pet to 5 kids who adore her, we do see her and she is adorable!!!, they don't care what she looks like they love her anyway!!!, stop wiping your tears now!!!

BUT I also think that if its slightly bully(well muscled) it may take a few months to detect, but it does'nt stop them being half decent racers.

 

[Anthony H]

hiya my dog is undershot and is quite stocky(not bull)) does bein undershot effect there ability. wot do u think of sonny boy as stud dog

 

[michelle]

I don't really think undershot makes alot of difference to racing ability, (a certain racer with a whistle has a decent dog with an undershot jaw) but I would be causious on breeding incase there were more genetic faults, but if you like you're dog enough to breed and the breeding is'nt too close, I can't see there being a problem!!!.(and if they all turn out to be staffs on legs-there are people out there who just want pets!!!!!)

I quite like sonny boy- and I think wor john is a cracking dog but the fact that it was so  injured put me off(wor john that is), all of sonny boys litter were cracking and you can't fault them, but make sure it's not too close to you're breeding.

 

[NEILPEM]

not as far as i know, did gillette race on the straights much,if so was he as good as he was on the bends.

think i only saw him run once on sraights,.

 

[Vicky]

I saw Gillette race a few times on the straights and he was good compared to most but his speciality was the bends, if you think about it any dog can run in a straight line but it takes a very clued up dog to be able to judge bends and passing other dogs whilst doing so, this Gillette did perfectly and if you ever saw him after a race he wasn't even out of breath, i think it will take a lot to have another bend dog as good as Gillette.  Stewart comes close mind you for his bend ability.

 

[Paws123]

i had a pup out of sonny boy she was a little timid wor johns litter sister andy and molly had sonny boy put to sleep last year as he went a bit funny and bit the grandaughter on the face

 

[s25ale]

Where does the bully come from is it from the greyhound history which  I  believe has terrier  blood or is it just an genetics fault

 

[Tony Taylor]

Whippet racing is a power sport,hence muscle mass is important - more muscle=more power=more speed, and because of this dogs with muscle tend to do well and studs that add substance tend to succesful,thus genes for muscular dogs tend to get passed on.

Bulls are really an exageration of this muscle possibly as a result of the same gene being present in the stud and the bitch.If this gene is present singularly (ie from the stud OR the bitch ) the offspring is powerful but not over bulky and may go on to be a champion but if the gene is duplicated (ie from the stud AND the bitch ) then a bull is produced - many are fast enough to race but due to their bulk are useless as weight handicap racers since they are heavy but lack stride length.

The original source of this gene is probably the staffordshire type bull terriers used to produce early whippet type dogs used in rabbit coursing.

 

[s25ale]

Tony thanks for the answer of where bulls come from I thought it was excellent. I’ve noticed your very up on science based questions (What do you eat for breakfast)  

 

[Paws123]

i think tony must have 4 shreaded wheat for his breakfast could tony help me with a problem i have with one of my dogs arthritis(thing spellings right)in hips and things i could use that ok if drug tested

 

[Judy]

I've been intrigued by this thread about "bullys" Not knowing much about non-ped whippets, when I first saw this mentioned in s25ale's post, I though he meant dogs that fought on the race track

. I realised you probably got a lot of variation in size and that some would be more greyhoundy and some more whippety but didn't know you could also get these bull types within the same litter.

Anyway... do they have noticeably shorter legs as well as a lot of muscle ? Is that why they have a lack of stride length Tony And how you decide if they are bull types or just stocky and well muscled as described in some of the posts ? When does one become the other ?

 

[michelle]

Judy

there is a fair degree of variation in build - some are lightly built, which is an advantage in weight but disadvantaged in power, while others are more muscled which gives a power advantage but a weight dis advantage. I suppose there is a trade off.

Bulls are so heavily built - mainly muscle that the power advantage is much less than the weight disadvantage

In appearance think along the line of the progeny of whippet x staffordshire bull terrier.

On reflection most of the bulls I have seen are perhaps shorter in leg length but not much the lack of stride length is more due to the relative short stature compared with a normal dog of the same weight - a 32 lb bull type may be under 18ins at the shoulder compared to 22ins for the normal type.

If the handicap was based on height instead of weight some bull types would be extemely competitive racers as some are capable of good times.

Tony

(Edited by michelle at 9:59 pm on Jan. 7, 2002)

 

[michelle]

Denise

all the effective drugs for arthritis will fail drugs tests in a big way. Batesons were banned using ibuprofen gel. BTW ibuprofen is highly unsuitable for dogs.Holland and Barratt sell glucoaamine,msm supplements which are safe as far as drug testing goes but their effectiveness is unproven

Tony

 

[Paws123]

michelle, tony is sm jointflex thats for sale at the greyhound megastore thats advertised in the whippet news okay or not as i am really worryed about getting anything i dont know about denise

 

[Susan]

When we phone to mega store in whippet news the woman there all ways tells us if it ok to use as we are scared stiff to use anthing on our dogs so we trust her. P. S. I mean anything from rubs to sa37e ect.

 

[Judy]

Thanks for the explanation Tony. I get it now. I had thought that perhaps they looked like Staffies in more ways than just muscle mass.

I have been enjoying reading the non-ped threads. It seems to be quite a different world to pedigree racing. Reading about kick boards and the increase in injuries they can cause, I am very glad they have never been introduced in pedigree racing. I can see that it might cause a lot of difficulties during the transition period if you stopped using them now though.

 

[Vicky]

Hi Judy, One more point that Tony didn't mention was that most of the bully types actually have big muscles in their head and face so head on they do look a lot different to the finer built whippets, It's not just their body and height thats different!!!!!!

-----

Vicky

 

[michelle]

My bully whippet sky has huge muscles on her head, when she gets cramp  you have to sit there massaging her head:sad: till it goes away

 

[Judy]

I suppose that thier heads is how you tell which pups are bulls at such a young age then as very young puppies don't usually have much in the way of muscle. Is that right ?

Cramp in your head! That must be my problem :biggrin: