Stud Dogs

[liza]

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in chosing a stud dog what should we be looking for the breeding the conformation or the temprement or size or all four i myself think temprement is the most important followed by conformation breeding and last size

 

[Garry Comber]

Temperament is most important to me- after all you have to be able to live with your dog.

I would not put size at the bottom of the list though; we should try to keep within the breed standard.

Size in coursing (as was) and racing is strictly enforced. When whippets are so multi functional it’s a shame if their size prevents them from partaking in some activities available to the breed because of their size.

 

[bertha]

Size is very important, whippets are starting to get too big and are beginning to look like small greyhounds.

Temperament is paramount, aggression in a whippet is a no no.

Pedigree, does it tie in with the bitches pedigree, not too close.

Research any dogs sired by the dog you are considering, so you have some idea of what you might get.

 

[starswift]

i wouldnt want to breed too close,

 

[Avalonia]

Moderate in all respects with no exaggeration in any part of his conformation... This means correct height and certainly nothing over 20 inches, correct topline - none of those American or Australian ski slope dropped off toplines that are so positively horrid and so distressingly and increasingly prevalent in the breed in those countries, proper well laid back shoulder set that does not result in a straight front shoulder to straightened pastern. A topline that is also not exaggerated either too long or too short and abrupt (the ski slope phenomenon), enjoying a slight rise over loin. good second thing and well let down hindquarters. Correct length of foream -- without which a dog cannot reach properly and that combined with a bad rear makes a dog that covers little distance in many steps. I saw a lot of those dogs during my visit to Bath and Southern Counties earlier this summer. A sweet, intelligent and gentle temperament. In other words, mentally sound and balanced.. Thoughtful linebred pedigree with dogs behind him exhibiting the same qualities seen in the stud dog (a much easier thing to achieve with linebreeding than breeding disparate dogs with unrelated pedigrees where what you get ultimately is a crap shoot). Colour positive immaterial, which means even if you like prefer fawn, or prefer brindle, you really need to chuck colour preferences in favour of the correct dog, because after all, colour is immaterial.

Lanny Morry

 

[Avalonia]

Moderate in all respects with no exaggeration in any part of his conformation... This means correct height and certainly nothing over 20 inches, correct topline - none of those American or Australian ski slope dropped off toplines that are so positively horrid and so distressingly and increasingly prevalent in the breed in those countries, proper well laid back shoulder set that does not result in a straight front shoulder to straightened pastern. A topline that is also not exaggerated either too long or too short and abrupt (the ski slope phenomenon), enjoying a slight rise over loin. good second thigh and well let down hindquarters. Correct length of forearm -- without which a dog cannot reach properly and that combined with a bad rear makes a dog that covers little distance in many steps. I saw a lot of those dogs during my visit to Bath and Southern Counties earlier this summer. A sweet, intelligent and gentle temperament. In other words, mentally sound and balanced.. Thoughtful linebred pedigree with dogs behind him exhibiting the same qualities seen in the stud dog (a much easier thing to achieve with linebreeding than breeding disparate dogs with unrelated pedigrees where what you get ultimately is a crap shoot). Colour positive immaterial, which means even if you like prefer fawn, or prefer brindle, you really need to chuck colour preferences in favour of the correct dog, because after all, colour is immaterial.
Lanny Morry

A couple of typos corrected...! second thigh, is better than a second thing, anytime!

 

[GotWhippet?]

Moderate in all respects with no exaggeration in any part of his conformation... This means correct height and certainly nothing over 20 inches, correct topline - none of those American or Australian ski slope dropped off toplines that are so positively horrid and so distressingly and increasingly prevalent in the breed in those countries, proper well laid back shoulder set that does not result in a straight front shoulder to straightened pastern. A topline that is also not exaggerated either too long or too short and abrupt (the ski slope phenomenon), enjoying a slight rise over loin. good second thing and well let down hindquarters. Correct length of foream -- without which a dog cannot reach properly and that combined with a bad rear makes a dog that covers little distance in many steps. I saw a lot of those dogs during my visit to Bath and Southern Counties earlier this summer. A sweet, intelligent and gentle temperament. In other words, mentally sound and balanced.. Thoughtful linebred pedigree with dogs behind him exhibiting the same qualities seen in the stud dog (a much easier thing to achieve with linebreeding than breeding disparate dogs with unrelated pedigrees where what you get ultimately is a crap shoot). Colour positive immaterial, which means even if you like prefer fawn, or prefer brindle, you really need to chuck colour preferences in favour of the correct dog, because after all, colour is immaterial.
Lanny Morry

I just came back from a visit from your website. My only comment is: concentrate on your own backyard before you start criticising everyone elses.

I have seen great examples of whippets in almost every continent and they could win in good company anywhere in the world.

 

[Seraphina]

What to look for? I always look for a dog that compliments my bitch, and is as perfect as possible in the parts that she is not. Hypothetically speaking, if I had problem with the front angulation I would be looking for a dog who not only has very good front, but a dog that comes from line of good fronts. And on the other hand, if my line has, lets say nice ear carriage across the board, I would not worry too much about a dog whose other progeny or relatives are not so perfect in this respect. Of-course, i would be hoping that the fault i know is in his line will not appear in my pups, but unfortunately there is no such a thing as a perfect dog...... etc.

First I make list of dogs that I like, dogs that strike me when I see them in the ring, both on stack and moving. Then i look carefully for those traits I specially want. Only then I study their pedigrees closely (of-course, I do know their breeding from the beginning); I consider such things like traits that may be carried although not expressed; size for instance. He may be good size, but are there many large dogs in his background? Basically, I take in consideration absolutely everything, will try not to double up on any faults.

Would not be using dog that I know has an iffy temperament, does not matter how perfect he may be.

 

[gajo]

As much as it pains me.... i think Lanny isn't too far off the mark. Of course there are some lovely dogs here in Australia- but toplines are certainly something that can be improved here. I agree- far too many ski slopes.

 

[masta]

To quote the KC standard -

"a balanced combination of muscular power and strength with elegance and grace of outline. Built for speed and work. All forms of exaggeration should be avoided"

ie fit for purpose

i was at a show recently and a very small percentage fitted the above, very sad when you look at some of noble working breeds this country has perfected for purpose to be ruined by trophy hunters

below taken from -

http://www.terrierman.com/rosettestoruin.htm

in working dogs, utility is beauty, and "beauty is as beauty does."

E.L. Hagedoorn, a Dutch consulting geneticist to dog breed societies around the world, believed the show ring would ruin working dog breeds, and time has proven him right. As he noted in his 1939 book:

"In the production of economically useful animals, the show ring is more of a menace than an aid to breeding. Once fancy points are introduced into the standard of perfection, the breeders will give more attention to those easily judged qualities than to the more important qualities that do not happen to be of such a nature that we can evaluate them at shows. Showing has nothing to do with utility at all, it is simply a competitive game."

 

[JAX]

What to look for? I always look for a dog that compliments my bitch, and is as perfect as possible in the parts that she is not. Hypothetically speaking, if I had problem with the front angulation I would be looking for a dog who not only has very good front, but a dog that comes from line of good fronts. And on the other hand, if my line has, lets say nice ear carriage across the board, I would not worry too much about a dog whose other progeny or relatives are not so perfect in this respect. Of-course, i would be hoping that the fault i know is in his line will not appear in my pups, but unfortunately there is no such a thing as a perfect dog...... etc.
First I make list of dogs that I like, dogs that strike me when I see them in the ring, both on stack and moving. Then i look carefully for those traits I specially want. Only then I study their pedigrees closely (of-course, I do know their breeding from the beginning); I consider such things like traits that may be carried although not expressed; size for instance. He may be good size, but are there many large dogs in his background? Basically, I take in consideration absolutely everything, will try not to double up on any faults.

Would not be using dog that I know has an iffy temperament, does not matter how perfect he may be.

Completly agree w ith you , I look for a dog that will compliment my bitch and enhance parts of her I wish to improve on , Temparment is of course a major factor, it has to be said

I look around the ring , see what I like ,look at pedigree . I might use the sire of a dog/bitch I like etc

 

[dawn]

A stud dog should complement a bitch not compliment it

:cheers:

I will now run and hide

 

[bertha]

Complement: Something which completes whole: full number, complete set or provision:

Compliment: expression or implication of praise.

 

[Happy Humber]

The mark of a good stud dog is what he gets.

Some great studs do not become champions but sire many pups that do. :thumbsup:

 

[Seraphina]

A stud dog should complement a bitch not compliment it :cheers:

I will now run and hide

thanks for pointing out my typo; this forum can certainly do with imrovement in spelling :thumbsup:

 

[devo12]

thought the studs that get used most ie top stud dog were used because they had been campaigned succesfully in other words "won alot" breeders then used them to try and replicate that success, the main drive for show breeders is to win

 

[T Hoare]

thought the studs that get used most ie top stud dog were used because they had been campaigned succesfully in other words "won alot" breeders then used them to try and replicate that success, the main drive for show breeders is to win

It doesnt mean to say that the top stud dog is the best dog for your bitch, the best dog to use is one that best compliments your bitch.

The top stud dog may have the fault which your bitch has, so not the right dog to use.

If the best dog for your bitch, happens to be the top stud dog then thats just a bonus. :thumbsup:

This should be the same for all activities in Whippets(racing, working, show etc)

 

[Garry Comber]

thought the studs that get used most ie top stud dog were used because they had been campaigned succesfully in other words "won alot" breeders then used them to try and replicate that success, the main drive for show breeders is to win

It doesnt mean to say that the top stud dog is the best dog for your bitch, the best dog to use is one that best compliments your bitch.

The top stud dog may have the fault which your bitch has, so not the right dog to use.

If the best dog for your bitch, happens to be the top stud dog then thats just a bonus. :thumbsup:

This should be the same for all activities in Whippets(racing, working, show etc)

I agree a stud dog may be the “flavour of the moment” but it doesn’t mean he will necessarily suit every bitch.

You have to research in depth to bring out and improve the qualities you want whilst retaining the bitches’ good points and most of all avoid doubling up on any faults

At the same time not loosing sight of the breed standard for size etc.

 

[meeka123]

To quote the KC standard -
"a balanced combination of muscular power and strength with elegance and grace of outline. Built for speed and work. All forms of exaggeration should be avoided"

ie fit for purpose

i was at a show recently and a very small percentage fitted the above, very sad when you look at some of noble working breeds this country has perfected for purpose to be ruined by trophy hunters

below taken from -

http://www.terrierman.com/rosettestoruin.htm

in working dogs, utility is beauty, and "beauty is as beauty does."

E.L. Hagedoorn, a Dutch consulting geneticist to dog breed societies around the world, believed the show ring would ruin working dog breeds, and time has proven him right. As he noted in his 1939 book:

"In the production of economically useful animals, the show ring is more of a menace than an aid to breeding. Once fancy points are introduced into the standard of perfection, the breeders will give more attention to those easily judged qualities than to the more important qualities that do not happen to be of such a nature that we can evaluate them at shows. Showing has nothing to do with utility at all, it is simply a competitive game."

so would you say that working shows at say game fairs produce better quality winners as the judges are using different criteria when judging ie the dogs working ability not its conformation?

 

[masta]

To quote the KC standard -
"a balanced combination of muscular power and strength with elegance and grace of outline. Built for speed and work. All forms of exaggeration should be avoided"

ie fit for purpose

i was at a show recently and a very small percentage fitted the above, very sad when you look at some of noble working breeds this country has perfected for purpose to be ruined by trophy hunters

below taken from -

http://www.terrierman.com/rosettestoruin.htm

in working dogs, utility is beauty, and "beauty is as beauty does."

E.L. Hagedoorn, a Dutch consulting geneticist to dog breed societies around the world, believed the show ring would ruin working dog breeds, and time has proven him right. As he noted in his 1939 book:

"In the production of economically useful animals, the show ring is more of a menace than an aid to breeding. Once fancy points are introduced into the standard of perfection, the breeders will give more attention to those easily judged qualities than to the more important qualities that do not happen to be of such a nature that we can evaluate them at shows. Showing has nothing to do with utility at all, it is simply a competitive game."

so would you say that working shows at say game fairs produce better quality winners as the judges are using different criteria when judging ie the dogs working ability not its conformation?

No, its not possible to judge working ability at a show it is only possible to judge "fit for purpose"