The Meaning W In Bwra & Nnwrf

[wild whippies]

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I have read some where along the lines that Manchester Terrier was introduced to the greyhound breed to produce the none ped whippet which were breed originally for ratting dogs in the  early 1800s anyone else heard this If thats the case the none ped whippet is a greyhound x terrier

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Yeah I've come across this in some articles, also Old English Terrier mentioned too. Greyhounds coursed back then were smaller though. (see article below) I used to have a Mannie - brilliant dog. :thumbsup:

Various opinions have been advanced as to the best size and weight for a Greyhound. Like horses, Greyhounds run in all forms, and there is no doubt that a really good big one will always have an advantage over the little ones; but it is so difficult to find the former, and most of the chief winners of the Waterloo Cup have been comparatively small. Coomassie was the smallest Greyhound that ever won the blue ribbon of the leash; she drew the scale at 42 lbs., and was credited with the win of the Cup on two occasions. Bab at the Bowster, who is considered by many good judges to have been the best bitch that ever ran, was 2 lbs. more; she won the Cup once, and many other stakes, as she was run all over the country and was not kept for the big event. Master McGrath was a small dog, and only weighed 53 lbs., but he won the Waterloo Cup three times.
Fullerton, who was a much bigger dog, and was four times declared the winner of the Cup, was 56 lbs. in weight.

 

[mutley]

dont forget staffs also read it somewhere

 

[Paws123]

This is what makes me think that adding loads of greyhound blood into none ped is not going to make much differences to winning ... what was that little race horse that won the grand national think Freddie star owned her ...she was tiny esp to clear the national fences....

Its not the size of the animal its the size of its heart that counts ..

thats a quote someone once said and god my brains gone tonight ...wonder if i got that S.A.D thing lol

 

[gary farmer]

I REMEMBER PEOPLE A FEW YEARS CALLING COME ON ERNIE AND COME ON SUE GREYHOUNDS. WAS IT BECAUSE THEY WERE BIG NO SUE WAS 23 1/2 " AND ERNIE WAS 24 1/2" TO THE SHOULDER IT WAS BECAUSE THEY WERE FAST IF THEY COULD NOT RUN THEY WOULD NOT HAVE GOT A MENTION.

FOR YEARS BIG DOGS REGARDLESS OF THERE BREEDING HAVE COME AND GONE AND CLUBS HAVE BEEN HAPPY TO TAKE THERE MONEY FOR RACING I COULD NAME A LOT BUT WONT . ITS ONLY WHEN YOU GET A GOOD ONE THAT THIS DISSCUTION GETS BROUGHT UP

IF I BRED A LITTER FROM ONE OF MY SRATCH DOGS THAT DID NOT MAKE THE GRADE TO A GREYHOUND IT WOULD NOT EVEN GET A MENTION UNLESS A PUP FROM IT STARTED WINING .

IF THEY WERE ALL CRAP YOU WOULD BE HAPPY TO RACE THEM WHITHOUT ANY MENTION OF SIZE OR HOW THERE BRED.

HAPPY RACING FOR 2008

 

[Paws123]

dont forget staffs also read it somewhere

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yeah we had 2 remember lol orr bless them they are beautiful

 

[rodders]

hope george hasnt fell in any shit lately

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He's still limping on a occasion(poor thing :- ")Limp came in handy when he was creeping about this pup :lol: No chance of him slipping in anymore,he doesn't go up the muck heap often enough :rant:

 

[Paws123]

hope george hasnt fell in any shit lately

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He's still limping on a occasion(poor thing :- ")Limp came in handy when he was creeping about this pup :lol: No chance of him slipping in anymore,he doesn't go up the muck heap often enough :rant:

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You know the famous sayng Karen " shit for luck" ..is he a luck person ?

 

[rodders]

hope george hasnt fell in any shit lately

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He's still limping on a occasion(poor thing :- ")Limp came in handy when he was creeping about this pup :lol: No chance of him slipping in anymore,he doesn't go up the muck heap often enough :rant:

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You know the famous sayng Karen " shit for luck" ..is he a luck person ?

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He'd tell you NO,he ended up with me :- " :lol:

 

[sadieandco]

also whoever dosnt like the breeding of certain scratch dogs its simple dont get one remember its personal choice

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See it's this that really gets my goat and seems the opinion of a lot of scratch racers - Geoff excluded, obviously he's looking "outside the box" (as my boss likes to say :lol: )

Like i have said numerous times Gary, it also affects the breeders, and at that, people who don't breed from greyhounds or whippet / greyhounds. Avit (23lb Dog x 30lb Bitch) Chunky (21lb Dog x 26lbish bitch) both 36/37lb scratch dogs, and both good examples of my point. I am pissed that a dog i have bred should have to run off (or feel they have to withdraw) in supreme scratch against what can only be classed as greyhounds, personally i would like to win fair and square on a level playing field.

We are now leaving ourselves wide open to people registering unmarked greyhounds (if you can't beat em join em as people like to say) as not everyone in this game is as honest as we'd like to believe.

Likewise, not having a dig just like to get my point across too.

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~I see the above mentioned as true scratch dogs bred from 'whippet size' dogs but have thrown bigger. This was my perception of scratch racing and how it was intended for the odd ones that went above the normal racing limit be it 32 or 35 (or 28 when i first started racing - ok shoot me now. But personally i think we are lookiing at more greyhound like than whippet like with alot of the scratch dogs now but if thats what they want its up to them.

 

[Tony Taylor]

  I am pissed that a dog i have bred should have to run off (or feel they have to withdraw) in supreme scratch against what can only be classed as greyhounds, personally i would like to win fair and square on a level playing field.

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Leveling the playing field by excluding faster dogs? Hmmmm

Whippets supersaturated with ghd breeding don't affect other whippet breeding since no one ( in their right mind ) is going to use such a bred dog in preference to pure ghd. It's pretty unlikely that a 15/16ths ghd/whippet is going to make any of the scratch classes let alone the handicap so the only time you'll ever need to race against them is in Supreme Scratch. On the straights these 16/16ths are a) not going to fit in a trap and b) generally be slower than whippet bred dogs in any case. It's only on the bends that supreme scratch will favour ghd bred dogs and in my experience the No Limit bend dogs are faster regardless of breeding.

 

[Vicky]

  I am pissed that a dog i have bred should have to run off (or feel they have to withdraw) in supreme scratch against what can only be classed as greyhounds, personally i would like to win fair and square on a level playing field.

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Leveling the playing field by excluding faster dogs? Hmmmm

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Hmmmm......... No that's not what i said, is it?

Narrowing it down to faster dogs would mean a whole load of other whippet / greyhound crosses to be excluded which isn't my point.

 

[gary farmer]

I KNOW WHAT YOUR SAYING TONY

WHAT IM TRYING TO GET A CROSS IS THAT I COULD RUN ANYTHING

WITHOUT NOTICE UNTILL IT WINS THEN QUESTIONS ARE ASKED AND THE BREEDING IS QUESTIONED

GARY

 

[wild whippies]

  I am pissed that a dog i have bred should have to run off (or feel they have to withdraw) in supreme scratch against what can only be classed as greyhounds, personally i would like to win fair and square on a level playing field.

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Leveling the playing field by excluding faster dogs? Hmmmm

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I perceived it as running dogs of the same breeding together?

I also recall someone saying that a non-ped winning against a peddy whippet wasn't a level playing field either. :- "

Way I see it, if I wanted to run against greyhounds, I'd of bought myself a decent greyhound. I wouldn't dream of taking Dobber racing with peds so why's it any different?

I think Dee had a point with her comments about Supreme Scratch, I know Geoff posted some wise advise to me about looking at Dobs times when it came to deciding to run off or not but there is another far important issue to me and that's his safety. Dobs being a railer, I think I'd be putting him at serious risk running against 50lb+ dogs that lean in on the rails, that's if he gets near them! :lol:

 

[Tony Taylor]

  I am pissed that a dog i have bred should have to run off (or feel they have to withdraw) in supreme scratch against what can only be classed as greyhounds, personally i would like to win fair and square on a level playing field.

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Leveling the playing field by excluding faster dogs? Hmmmm

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I perceived it as running dogs of the same breeding together?

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What breeding is that?Whippet/ghd? or are we having some breeding facism where it's just the amount of ghd that's important.?

Without ghd crosses scratch would be pretty lonely.

I also recall someone saying that a non-ped winning against a peddy whippet wasn't a level playing field either. :- "

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That's just a red hering that has nothing whaysoever to do with non ped whippets and scratch racing. The KC race by exclusion so you can't race against the peds with a non ped in any case. Perhaps it's the exclusion of the faster dogs that's left them as also rans behind the non peds.

Way I see it, if I wanted to run against greyhounds, I'd of bought myself a decent greyhound. I wouldn't dream of taking Dobber racing with peds so why's it any different?

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Which is another red herringIf you want to race terriers you buy a terrier. Non ped breeding is open with no exclusions as of the present time. Avit races in his class in any case.

I think Dee had a point with her comments about Supreme Scratch, I know Geoff posted some wise advise to me about looking at Dobs times when it came to deciding to run off or not but there is another far important issue to me and that's his safety. Dobs being a railer, I think I'd be putting him at serious risk running against 50lb+ dogs that lean in on the rails, that's if he gets near them! :lol:

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Safety issues are more to do with size and weight than breeding. You can't ban a 56lb 15/16ths cross and allow a 60lb+ first cross to race on safety grounds - it's hypocritical.

 

[rodders]

Did worry there Jac seeing as i've got a 58lb half cross. :- "

Got a little 'you can't' to add to your list Tony.

You can't ban a dog for being over a certain weight,when you allow its smaller litter mates to race :thumbsup:

 

[hellbound]

I REMEMBER PEOPLE A FEW YEARS CALLING COME ON ERNIE AND COME ON SUE GREYHOUNDS. WAS IT BECAUSE THEY WERE BIG  NO SUE WAS 23 1/2 " AND ERNIE WAS 24 1/2" TO THE SHOULDER IT WAS BECAUSE THEY WERE FAST IF THEY COULD NOT RUN THEY WOULD NOT HAVE GOT A MENTION.
FOR YEARS BIG DOGS REGARDLESS OF THERE BREEDING HAVE COME AND GONE AND CLUBS HAVE BEEN HAPPY TO TAKE THERE MONEY FOR RACING I COULD NAME A LOT BUT WONT . ITS ONLY WHEN YOU GET A GOOD ONE THAT THIS DISSCUTION GETS BROUGHT UP

IF I BRED A LITTER FROM ONE OF MY SRATCH DOGS THAT DID NOT MAKE THE GRADE TO A GREYHOUND IT WOULD NOT EVEN GET A MENTION UNLESS A PUP FROM IT STARTED WINING .

IF THEY WERE ALL CRAP  YOU WOULD BE HAPPY TO RACE THEM WHITHOUT ANY MENTION OF SIZE OR HOW THERE BRED.

HAPPY RACING FOR 2008

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have to say spot on its only when they start to win people start looking in there ear's lol

 

[wild whippies]

What breeding is that?Whippet/ghd? or are we having some breeding facism where it's just the amount of ghd that's important.?Without ghd crosses scratch would be pretty lonely

You know full well I have no issues with GHD x's personally I think it's those that have issues about inviting pure bred GHD's into the sport that are the facists. You've shown me the genetics behind the breeding of 'non-peds', demonstrating how in lineages it's technically possible to produce a 'Greyhound'. Like you said, it's not whippet racing, it's race-dog racing.

I also recall someone saying that a non-ped winning against a peddy whippet wasn't a level playing field either. :- "

That's just a red hering that has nothing whaysoever to do with non ped whippets and scratch racing. The KC race by exclusion so you can't race against the peds with a non ped in any case. Perhaps it's the exclusion of the faster dogs that's left them as also rans behind the non peds.

Perhaps it's the exclusion of Greyhound that's left them behind non-peds.

Way I see it, if I wanted to run against greyhounds, I'd of bought myself a decent greyhound. I wouldn't dream of taking Dobber racing with peds so why's it any different?

Which is another red herring

If you want to race terriers you buy a terrier. Non ped breeding is open with no exclusions as of the present time. Avit races in his class in any case.

I'm not supporting any exclusions, like you say Avit runs in his class. What class do you recon a Greyhound genotype should run in? Furthermore do you think he should run with these dogs? You of course will agree he should. So why not make it a 'level' playing field and let greys race non-peds?

I do feel that running for that Supreme Scratch becomes a bit of a dead loss for a 36lber on the bends, purely because the bigger dog does tend to be faster (like you've said) Just like the little handicap dogs withdraw from the bends, when their owners have checked times, the same will apply to him. In fairness, I think the NNWRF have put some thought into their new scratch classes and I think Supreme on the bends will be a better race to watch.

Safety issues are more to do with size and weight than breeding. You can't ban a 56lb 15/16ths cross and allow a 60lb+ first cross to race on safety grounds - it's hypocritical.

I've never, ever suggested a ban. For one where the hell would you draw the line? if rumours were true there isn't a 'ban' on greyhounds running! :teehee:

 

Quite interesting having a debate with someone on the PC when they live in the same house as you! :lol:

 

[wild whippies]

Did worry there Jac seeing as i've got a 58lb half cross. :- " Got a little 'you can't' to add to your list Tony.

You can't ban a dog for being over a certain weight,when you allow its smaller litter mates to race  :thumbsup:

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I certainly wouldn't support a ban. :thumbsup: Might think otherwise about racing with it though, no insult there mind.

 

[gary farmer]

I agree with most of what you say Vicky but you could say the same thing for the yard per lb ers . I myself pull tinkerman 17lb out of the finals now for fear of being hit by the larger dogs on bends

And on the strieghts people pull out with the big dogs saying they have no chance of catching the small ones

but like you say thats there choise.

GARY :cheers:

 

[rodders]

Did worry there Jac seeing as i've got a 58lb half cross. :- " Got a little 'you can't' to add to your list Tony.

You can't ban a dog for being over a certain weight,when you allow its smaller litter mates to race  :thumbsup:

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I certainly wouldn't support a ban. :thumbsup: Might think otherwise about racing with it though, no insult there mind.

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Just shows you and Tony know what debating is all about :thumbsup: Hope you weren't fighting over who's going on the PC next though:lol: