The Secret Affair Litter

[Wayward_Angel]

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And what they preferred to be doing then stacking outside!!!

Sway, Eden & Paris

 

[BlackMoon Magic]

they are just adorable! :wub: :wub: :wub:

 

[kierpark]

Lovely puppies :wub: :wub:

 

[whippetmad]

:wub: Lovely babies :wub:

 

[jayp]

These are not humans we're talking about and due to their higher number of chromosome pairs,  Dogs have 39 pairs of chromosomes. Humans have 23....less shuffles on a genetic level.....this is WHY we can inbreed/linebreed with our dogs and why we can't in humans, they  do not react the same way a human inbreeding would, as well, dogs don't care if they mate with their sibling or parent. It's an action, not an emotion.

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I think canine, equine, feline, bovine and in fact any animal geneticist would disagree with you there, such close inbreeding is NOT good for the future of amimal health and just because we can dosnt mean we should

 

[cyfrin]

These are not humans we're talking about and due to their higher number of chromosome pairs,  Dogs have 39 pairs of chromosomes. Humans have 23....less shuffles on a genetic level.....this is WHY we can inbreed/linebreed with our dogs and why we can't in humans, they  do not react the same way a human inbreeding would, as well, dogs don't care if they mate with their sibling or parent. It's an action, not an emotion.

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I think canine, equine, feline, bovine and in fact any animal geneticist would disagree with you there, such close inbreeding is NOT good for the future of amimal health and just because we can dosnt mean we should

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!00% in agreement with you, jayp

With the current atmoshere surrounding inbreeding/line-breeding I am shocked you are defending this match, WA

 

[jinnyfizz]

Cinder is my favourite :wub:

This wasn't an intentional mating, was it?

The initial post says "secret love affair" and accidents can happen.

 

[Natalia]

These are not humans we're talking about and due to their higher number of chromosome pairs,  Dogs have 39 pairs of chromosomes. Humans have 23....less shuffles on a genetic level.....this is WHY we can inbreed/linebreed with our dogs and why we can't in humans, they  do not react the same way a human inbreeding would, as well, dogs don't care if they mate with their sibling or parent. It's an action, not an emotion.

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Could you please explain how different number of chromosomes can result in different reaction to inbreeding?

 

[cyfrin]

I think that these pups need to be neutered as soon as possible - and should be a necessity when they are sold.

Whether this was an intended mating or not is immaterial. More care should be taken when bitches are in season!

 

[dragonfly]

The puppies are very sweet looking, but if this litter had been born in certain European countries they would not be allowed to be registered. Obviously most well informed breeders would prefer not to see this type of breeding occurring and I really hope that it was accidental.

It also appears that the breeder of these puppies is not well informed in the science of genetics and the consequences of in-breeding. Well that applies to numerous breeders, shamefully including many of longstanding in most breeds.

This breeder should not be critisised on a public forum because she is lacking in knowledge about the consequenses of inbreeding. It would be much more positive to provide some resources to help her to understand the problems that can result from breedings like this, both in these puppies and descendents. Of course they should be neutered and the new owners should be made aware of the parentage.

Perhaps if the original poster is interested, Natalia (our resident genetics expert ) could send her some useful information to study.

Good Luck with your litter, I hope that you take the hint of several posters on this thread and get some good information to help you in the future to become a well informed breeder. In the meanwhile enjoy your puppies and do right by the breed and their future owners by insistying that they are neutered.

Cathie

 

[affieluver]

The puppies are very sweet looking, but if this litter had been born in certain European countries they would not be allowed to be registered. Obviously most well informed breeders would prefer not to see this type of breeding occurring and I really hope that it was accidental.
It also appears that the breeder of these puppies is not well informed in the science of genetics and the consequences of in-breeding. Well that applies to numerous breeders, shamefully including many of  longstanding in most breeds.

This breeder should not be critisised on a public forum because she is lacking in knowledge about the consequenses of inbreeding. It would be much more positive to provide some resources to help her to understand the problems that can result from breedings like this, both in these puppies and descendents. Of course they should be neutered and the new owners should be made aware of the parentage.

Perhaps if the original poster is interested, Natalia (our resident genetics expert )  could send her some useful information to study.

Good Luck with your litter, I hope that you take the hint of several posters on this thread and get some good information to help you in the future to become a well informed breeder. In the meanwhile enjoy your puppies  and do right by the breed and their future owners by insistying that they are neutered.

Cathie

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some good information there :thumbsup:

 

[jthatton]

Hi Katrina

I am sorry you have been criticised about this mating, especially when it was accidental. However you have raised the issue on this forum. This is a very HOT topic in the UK at the moment following a documentary on TV about the Kennel Club. There is also increased scientific knowledge around now which does not support your view about a higher number of chromosomes in certain species lessening the problems in in breeding. These matings are damaging to the offspring and to the breed and any defects could appear in future generations. Of course dogs are not humans and there is no emotion on their part so don't make it sound like there is by calling it a "Secret Affair". If I were you I would quietly sell the pups with a "do not breed" clause and not broadcast this accident on an international forum. Sorry.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Katrina
I am sorry you have been criticised about this mating, especially when it was accidental. However you have raised the issue on this forum. This is a very HOT topic in the UK at the moment following a documentary on TV about the Kennel Club. There is also increased scientific knowledge around now which does not support your view about a higher number of chromosomes in certain species lessening the problems in in breeding.  These matings are damaging to the offspring and to the breed and any defects could appear in future generations. Of course dogs are not humans and there is no emotion on their part so don't make it sound like there is by calling it a "Secret Affair". If I were you I would quietly sell the pups with a "do not breed" clause and not broadcast this accident on an international forum. Sorry.

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More negative and unhelpful comments.........oh dear!

How can we expect novice breeders to ask for help unless we are supportive and positive of those who have made a mistake.

All responsible breeders should promote a culture in which everyone feels comfortable to air their problems and difficulties even if (as in this instance) in ignorance.

It is just disastrous for breeds when dirty secrets are covered up because breeders are scared of the consequences if they admit to a problem.

Cathie

 

[affieluver]

Hi Katrina
I am sorry you have been criticised about this mating, especially when it was accidental. However you have raised the issue on this forum. This is a very HOT topic in the UK at the moment following a documentary on TV about the Kennel Club. There is also increased scientific knowledge around now which does not support your view about a higher number of chromosomes in certain species lessening the problems in in breeding.  These matings are damaging to the offspring and to the breed and any defects could appear in future generations. Of course dogs are not humans and there is no emotion on their part so don't make it sound like there is by calling it a "Secret Affair". If I were you I would quietly sell the pups with a "do not breed" clause and not broadcast this accident on an international forum. Sorry.

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More negative and unhelpful comments.........oh dear!

How can we expect novice breeders to ask for help unless we are supportive and positive of those who have made a mistake.

All responsible breeders should promote a culture in which everyone feels comfortable to air their problems and difficulties even if (as in this instance) in ignorance.

It is just disastrous for breeds when dirty secrets are covered up because breeders are scared of the consequences if they admit to a problem.

Cathie

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i have to say reading some of this would certainly make me think twice about asking for help shouldn't we unite for the love of the breed as cathie says )

 

[JAX]

As has been already said , `Mistakes do happen ` .

We, as part of a Whippet Forum` should not be quick to critisise others mistakes , How do we know that she may have already decided on the pups futures .

When I see cross breeds or mongrels I often wonder that maybe they could be `family inter bred ` without anyone knowing Unless of course `designer` xbreeds

BTW I know of at least 1UK brother/sister mating that produced a champion , and it was planned too

 

[jayp]

Hi Katrina
I am sorry you have been criticised about this mating, especially when it was accidental. However you have raised the issue on this forum. This is a very HOT topic in the UK at the moment following a documentary on TV about the Kennel Club. There is also increased scientific knowledge around now which does not support your view about a higher number of chromosomes in certain species lessening the problems in in breeding.  These matings are damaging to the offspring and to the breed and any defects could appear in future generations. Of course dogs are not humans and there is no emotion on their part so don't make it sound like there is by calling it a "Secret Affair". If I were you I would quietly sell the pups with a "do not breed" clause and not broadcast this accident on an international forum. Sorry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

More negative and unhelpful comments.........oh dear!

How can we expect novice breeders to ask for help unless we are supportive and positive of those who have made a mistake.

All responsible breeders should promote a culture in which everyone feels comfortable to air their problems and difficulties even if (as in this instance) in ignorance.

It is just disastrous for breeds when dirty secrets are covered up because breeders are scared of the consequences if they admit to a problem.

Cathie

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i have to say reading some of this would certainly make me think twice about asking for help shouldn't we unite for the love of the breed as cathie says )

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I dont recall anyone asking for help which would be freely given im sure, i too wish the poster well with the litter and best wishes for any future breeding

 

[cyfrin]

Hi Katrina
I am sorry you have been criticised about this mating, especially when it was accidental. However you have raised the issue on this forum. This is a very HOT topic in the UK at the moment following a documentary on TV about the Kennel Club. There is also increased scientific knowledge around now which does not support your view about a higher number of chromosomes in certain species lessening the problems in in breeding.  These matings are damaging to the offspring and to the breed and any defects could appear in future generations. Of course dogs are not humans and there is no emotion on their part so don't make it sound like there is by calling it a "Secret Affair". If I were you I would quietly sell the pups with a "do not breed" clause and not broadcast this accident on an international forum. Sorry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

More negative and unhelpful comments.........oh dear!

How can we expect novice breeders to ask for help unless we are supportive and positive of those who have made a mistake.

All responsible breeders should promote a culture in which everyone feels comfortable to air their problems and difficulties even if (as in this instance) in ignorance.

It is just disastrous for breeds when dirty secrets are covered up because breeders are scared of the consequences if they admit to a problem.

Cathie

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​

i have to say reading some of this would certainly make me think twice about asking for help shouldn't we unite for the love of the breed as cathie says )

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I dont recall anyone asking for help which would be freely given im sure, i too wish the poster well with the litter and best wishes for any future breeding

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Firstly - to sell the pups 'quietly' is wrong! Sell them yes but make the new owners aware that the pups are 'accidents'

Secondly - Any future breeding ?? Not with the same sire & dam I hope!

 

I agree this has become an emotive subject, but my problem is with the poster who told us what had happened & made light of it.

I hope to see the original poster return with comments......we have all said our piece!

 

[AnnSa]

The original poster has probably run for the hills

never to be seen again after this lot :*

 

[aslan]

Firstly - to sell the pups 'quietly' is wrong!  Sell them yes but make the new owners aware that the pups are 'accidents'  Secondly - Any future breeding ??  Not with the same sire & dam I hope!

 

I agree this has become an emotive subject, but my problem is with the poster who told us what had happened & made light of it. 

I hope to see the original poster return with comments......we have all said our piece!

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Cyfrin I notice you are a fairly new member to the forum and your signature shows no whippets. Are you a pedigree dog breeder?

You've been fairly quick to pounce with your views. Ok - inbred litters are not what we desire but as I've said in the other thread on this topic - sometimes despite our very best efforts to avoid it, it happens. At least Katrina has been open and honest about it.

Katrina made it clear it was a mistake mating - not intended. So it's highly unlikely she would do it again intentionally as your post above suggests.

I think some of you could take your lead from Cathie and be kinder/more tactful in the expression of your opinions and even in the expression of fact. We want to keep people in the breed so that they can be educated, not make them feel worthless and drive them away at the first mistake they make.

 

[elmaro]

well said Lana