To Crate Or Not To Crate?

[cyfrin]

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Hmmmm, after a bad night I think I'm going to backtrack a bit... It's a bit much to expect him to stay happily in his crate when he won't stay happily in the whole room, and a bit much to expect him to spend all night alone in his room if he can't manage a few minutes.
So tonight I'm going to sleep in his room with him, hopefully persuading him to sleep next to the mattress on a quilt or something rather than on it with me, because he's amazing at nicking more than his fair share! Then will gradually try moving me away from him, or him away from me, and working on the separation aspect during the day. I think it'll be easier for me to move away from his room than him start in our bedroom & move away from there. Mind you, I don't really mind where he sleeps (or where I sleep!) in the long run as long as I actually get some sleep! If I manage to persuade him his crate is a nice place to sleep all well and good but I don't feel that for us the long-term advantages of having a crate are worth a whole lot of stress now, while I'm also dealing with housetraining, bite inhibition, socialisation... oh, and trying to keep up with the normal household stuff! :ermm:

columbusrat ~ are you coping on your own?

I feel that you are desperate for the 'easy' option but pups are hard work! Sleep deprivation is par for the course at first but if you give into whims then you are 'the slave' forever! He needs exercise - at least twice a day and mental stimulation! Out in the garden on a lead will not cut it. Exercise and discipline work hand in hand so get him out!!

 

[Hula]

Hmmmm, after a bad night I think I'm going to backtrack a bit... It's a bit much to expect him to stay happily in his crate when he won't stay happily in the whole room, and a bit much to expect him to spend all night alone in his room if he can't manage a few minutes.
So tonight I'm going to sleep in his room with him, hopefully persuading him to sleep next to the mattress on a quilt or something rather than on it with me, because he's amazing at nicking more than his fair share! Then will gradually try moving me away from him, or him away from me, and working on the separation aspect during the day. I think it'll be easier for me to move away from his room than him start in our bedroom & move away from there. Mind you, I don't really mind where he sleeps (or where I sleep!) in the long run as long as I actually get some sleep! If I manage to persuade him his crate is a nice place to sleep all well and good but I don't feel that for us the long-term advantages of having a crate are worth a whole lot of stress now, while I'm also dealing with housetraining, bite inhibition, socialisation... oh, and trying to keep up with the normal household stuff! :ermm:

columbusrat ~ are you coping on your own?

I feel that you are desperate for the 'easy' option but pups are hard work! Sleep deprivation is par for the course at first but if you give into whims then you are 'the slave' forever! He needs exercise - at least twice a day and mental stimulation! Out in the garden on a lead will not cut it. Exercise and discipline work hand in hand so get him out!!

I think we are talking about a pup here :thumbsup:

Therefore probably at the moment unvaccinated and not able to go out for a walk :wacko:

 

[columbusrat]

I think we are talking about a pup here :thumbsup: Therefore probably at the moment unvaccinated and not able to go out for a walk :wacko:

That's correct - 8 weeks this Friday and we've only had him since Saturday - I just have a habit of analysing things far too soon! I also feel a little guilty as hubby wasn't altogether keen on the idea of having a dog but he's a good'un and has been doing his bit. I'm certainly not looking for the short-term easy option as the long term costs would be a lot worse, just trying to work out the right approach for us. After hearing so many different opinions hubby and I are comfortable with how we're going to handle it. I think it's like children - you decide on the boundaries that are right for you, then you stick to them, but your boundaries won't be the same as other people's.

Jasper's showing signs of being a quick learner - when he was settling down to have a wee in the garden I inadvertently said 'Good boy' instead of 'widdle' :b and he immediately sat down and looked up expectantly for his treat....

 

[~Annie~]

Please remember that your pup is a pup ... sure he needs reassurance if upset (I'm not of the leave them to scream school) but it sounds to me as if at the moment he is the one calling the shots in your relationship.

At the moment, maybe, because I'm so dog-tired! But if I can find a way of me and him getting a decent night's sleep then I'll be much better able to deal with some proper crate/separation training in the day.

He just discovered his legs in the garden and did his best to sprint the length of the garden. Not too successful as he was on the lead but boy, did he go! It was almost an 'I've just discovered what I was born for' moment :thumbsup: Maybe I should forget about 'sit' and start on recall right now.....

Um ... yes lol ... right now, when he's still unsure of himeslf and wants to be right where you are is a very good time to start calling him to you for a reward ... just from room to room say. Recall is the most important thing you will ever teach a running dog ... if you think he's fast now wait 'til he's fully mature ... they run away fast so get a long way fast, which means for safety's sake recall needs to be pretty instant. As soon as he's allowed out post vacs find a safe open space and let him off the lead so he can run away and learn to come back ... now while he is so small he won't want to go far and will be easy to teach, especially as he is obviously a very bright boy :thumbsup:

 

[jinnyfizz]

jinnyfizz said ~ "I'll probably get shot down for this, but crates seem to be the answer for those who can't allow their lives to revolve around their dogs as I do (not their fault, we live in a society where we have to work long hours etc) so they need to provide an almost fail-safe way of keeping the dog out of potential trouble"
Hi - I am sure a few owners use crates as a convenience but we do not work, are home 24/7 and would never use a crate as a 'fail-safe...' As for caring for dogs, then a responsible loving caring owner will have the dogs best interests at heart, whether their lives revolve around the dog or the other way round!!

I am not 'shooting you down' jinnyfizz just pointing out that not all of us use a crate for the wrong reasons! But then. without differing opinions it would be a mundane world!

Totally agree with this reply, I considered it very judgmental of jinnyfizz to assume that not letting your dogs have the complete run of the house means you think any less of them. It was also interesting to note that although her dogs are her life and she doesn't use crates the 2 lurcher pups were in the stable with a crate for a bed. Surely this would not have been necessary as a stable would have stalls they could be in.

Sonia

Hallo Dottie and Sonia

..... feeling a bit confused here as I haven't said that people who use crates don't care about their dogs or think any less of them :blink: I did try to qualify my opinion by saying that sometimes crating is a necessity to keep the dog safe and I pointed out that I, personally, dislike shutting them in a crate for a long period of time but that I think open crates are ok. I also said that everyone is different and that it was just my opinion, so it was not meant to be judgemental in any way, shape or form

I agree that a crate can become a dog's safe and quiet place and that's the way that Dottie has used a crate for Pica :thumbsup: and it has given Pica his own personal space and somewhere to sleep peacefully. Pica has also had the advantage of doggie companionship as well as you being at home, Dottie

So far as my arrangement for Timothy and Caitlin goes, my stables are each 13' x 13' square with rubber matting on the floor and are built inside a wooden american barn with a 13' high roof. This area would be far too cold for pups to be kept in without a heated area to go to, hence a large crate in the corner of the stable where they can sleep or just access to warm up. Stalls are much narrower areas, built for horses to stand up in only and generally found in older stone buildings where the roof is lower and not so much air circulation is evident, thus making them somewhat warmer. Having said that, I still wouldn't keep any puppy outside - in either a kennel, stable or stall - without a heated area for them to sleep in, as the temperatures we have experienced this winter have been exceptionally cold!! (w00t)

I hope my comments haven't offended anyone, it was not my intention, but I do want to stress that I didn't say that people who use crates don't care about their dogs or think less of them. Just wanted to put the record straight :cheers: :thumbsup:

 

[blissed4ever]

Hi, my lurcher pup is now 12 weeks and has been with us for 6 weeks. I bought a small crate of 6 panels designed as a garden run for rabbits or small furries. We've used it to create barriers rather than a crate and use it to create separate spaces for the 2 older dogs and the pup. I've also used it to separate pup from the builders. We can also make a small crate in the kitchen, using the door and units and 3 panels, containing his bed and we feed him in this.

I allow the dogs free run of house and furniture and find that generally this works well for us. The pup isn't allowed upstairs yet but will be in a few weeks providing the cocker spaniel gives up attacking him.

Pup sleeps in the kitchen (not crated) and calls us if he needs to go out in the garden during the night - better than having a mess to clear up in the morning. The other dogs have their beds in our room and also beds or mats to sleep on downstairs if they wish.

I don't like the idea of crates for dogs or children although we have a crate for our cocker that we take to game fairs so that we can leave her in the estate car with the back open for ventilation, the crate is locked to the car and is padlocked shut. Not entirely thief proof but a good deterrant. She will stay in there for an hour or so quite happily but my other dog hates it.

I think the question of crating depends upon your own temperament and that of the dog. If the dog can't come to you when it wants to, you miss out on the close attachment that this will foster. However if you're of the "only interact when you want to not when the dog wants to" school then you might as well have the dog in a crate, it'll feel less rejection that way.

 

[bonio]

Hi, my lurcher pup is now 12 weeks and has been with us for 6 weeks. I bought a small crate of 6 panels designed as a garden run for rabbits or small furries. We've used it to create barriers rather than a crate and use it to create separate spaces for the 2 older dogs and the pup. I've also used it to separate pup from the builders. We can also make a small crate in the kitchen, using the door and units and 3 panels, containing his bed and we feed him in this.
I allow the dogs free run of house and furniture and find that generally this works well for us. The pup isn't allowed upstairs yet but will be in a few weeks providing the cocker spaniel gives up attacking him.

Pup sleeps in the kitchen (not crated) and calls us if he needs to go out in the garden during the night - better than having a mess to clear up in the morning. The other dogs have their beds in our room and also beds or mats to sleep on downstairs if they wish.

I don't like the idea of crates for dogs or children although we have a crate for our cocker that we take to game fairs so that we can leave her in the estate car with the back open for ventilation, the crate is locked to the car and is padlocked shut. Not entirely thief proof but a good deterrant. She will stay in there for an hour or so quite happily but my other dog hates it.

I think the question of crating depends upon your own temperament and that of the dog. If the dog can't come to you when it wants to, you miss out on the close attachment that this will foster. However if you're of the "only interact when you want to not when the dog wants to" school then you might as well have the dog in a crate, it'll feel less rejection that way.

I think that most people are like us and only crate the dog when they are out or at night not because we don't wish to interact with them. Just as a matter of interest we have 3 large lurchers and 1 pup,who will also be large when he grows, in the house. The 3 older dogs have the run of the downstairs all the time and the pup is only in the crate when we're out or through the night this is chiefly to stop him tearing round the house with Jade the next youngest unsupervised. If he wants to go out in the night he calls and we come down to him. Through the day the crate door is left open and the adults will take it in turns to go in there,they look upon it as their haven.

Sonia

 

[~Annie~]

...I think the question of crating depends upon your own temperament and that of the dog. If the dog can't come to you when it wants to, you miss out on the close attachment that this will foster. However if you're of the "only interact when you want to not when the dog wants to" school then you might as well have the dog in a crate, it'll feel less rejection that way.

I'm genuinely not sure if I've missed something here or you have ... as I read it this thread is about getting pups used to time spent crated for their own safety when we are not there, whether because we are literally not on the premises or just asleep. I don't think anyone is suggesting using a crate to segregate their dogs. That said there is another reason to accustom our dogs to crates ... they may in future suffer an injury requiring crate rest ... and having nursed a dachshund back to health after a major orthopaedic back op I know what a godsend a crate can be when dealing with a dog that's not supposed to move about much.

 

[TTT]

My dogs love the cages - at one point I had three squeezing into a small cage 24" long, despite a selection of comfy beds being at hand! It was impossible to tell where one dog started and another one ended! A real doggie pile-up!

 

[gabbitas31]

My dogs love the cages - at one point I had three squeezing into a small cage 24" long, despite a selection of comfy beds being at hand! It was impossible to tell where one dog started and another one ended! A real doggie pile-up!

TTT if your dogs like their cages that much, :lol: don't for good sake let them near a Mag Box, :- mine not only fight to get in, they won't come out either they love it so much. :lol: must be the warmth and the magnetic pulses running through their bodies. ) does them good, like recharging a battery. :lol:

 

 

All my dogs travel in cadges i think that's the safest way, but at home they've got the run of the house unless one of the girls is in season and then we put up a massive cadge and i either stick the two boys in there or which ever bitch is in season, or what ever sex is driving me mad at the time. :lol: (we've all be there with dogs and bitches in season. :rant: (w00t)

My dogs don't care what their in as long as they are with ME. :wub: good topic, :thumbsup: it's always nice to hear other peoples opinions on some topics. di

 

Sorry TTT the second bit was meant for everyone, i forgot that I'd quoted you. :clown: i am.

 

[hely]

Personaly i think its each to their own, as long as the dog/s arent locked in a crate all day and for the wrong reasons then theres nothing wrong with it.....My gypsy sleeps in her bed in the kitchen, she is quite happy in there......i dont think dogs should be sleeping upstairs on their owners beds...but thats just my opinion.......each to their own :thumbsup:

 

[gabbitas31]

Personaly i think its each to their own, as long as the dog/s arent locked in a crate all day and for the wrong reasons then theres nothing wrong with it.....My gypsy sleeps in her bed in the kitchen, she is quite happy in there......i dont think dogs should be sleeping upstairs on their owners beds...but thats just my opinion.......each to their own :thumbsup:

I agree with you hely about not letting the dogs sleep in your room, :thumbsup: (it's something i wish I'd never started but it started when i only had one dog, (w00t) now I've got four., :lol:

They are all good at night and don't bother us but i still wish i hadn't started that way. di

,

 

[columbusrat]

We're clear we don't want Jasper in our room at night - for one, I'm sure he'd end up sharing the bed which could be fine now but not when he's grown into those paws, and for another, hubby's worried he may try to join in if we should... er... cuddle :b :lol:

You know, one night of decent sleep (and a reasonable night's sleep for hubby who was shacked up with Jasper) and not only have I much more confidence in my decisions but things seem to be falling into place. I'm turning my back when he play-bites too hard and if he won't leave my legs/feet I remove myself which sometimes means him being shut in his room and sometimes means I shut myself in there (this does't work if I've left the cat food down...). This seems to be having results, whereas yelping, saying 'NO!!' and distracting with a toy wasn't.

I even found him sitting hopefully in front of the settee this morning rather than jumping straight on when I wasn't looking!

I get the impression almost everybody here is an old hand and all this comes very naturally so thanks so much for all your thoughts, suggestions and advice )

 

[hely]

Personaly i think its each to their own, as long as the dog/s arent locked in a crate all day and for the wrong reasons then theres nothing wrong with it.....My gypsy sleeps in her bed in the kitchen, she is quite happy in there......i dont think dogs should be sleeping upstairs on their owners beds...but thats just my opinion.......each to their own :thumbsup:

I agree with you hely about not letting the dogs sleep in your room, :thumbsup: (it's something i wish I'd never started but it started when i only had one dog, (w00t) now I've got four., :lol:

They are all good at night and don't bother us but i still wish i hadn't started that way. di

,

Gypsy sleeps on the bed in the sometimes...think its to get away from the kids (w00t) ...but night time is always in her bed in the kitchen..........she would take up to much room...its bad enough having a bloody man in there with me (w00t) (w00t) (w00t)

 

[peppermint lady]

i use crates, for all mine....as june will tell you when i leave the house...they all go barmy and a fight would almost be a dead cert :nuke:

i used to leave them out of crates at night untill they started peeing in the house :angry:

so back in crates at night, my dogs love their crates and feel safe and happy in them, i always crate when i go out, i never leave them to long...but half the time on my return i can open the doors and no-one moves (Grace no longer goes in a crate and im trying to leave Maddie out as well but she loves her)

for their own safty i always crate when i have visitors, and if Elisha's friends come to play (i dont invite many people in so this is not usually a problem) :lol:

 

[gabbitas31]

Personaly i think its each to their own, as long as the dog/s arent locked in a crate all day and for the wrong reasons then theres nothing wrong with it.....My gypsy sleeps in her bed in the kitchen, she is quite happy in there......i dont think dogs should be sleeping upstairs on their owners beds...but thats just my opinion.......each to their own :thumbsup:

I agree with you hely about not letting the dogs sleep in your room, :thumbsup: (it's something i wish I'd never started but it started when i only had one dog, (w00t) now I've got four., :lol:

They are all good at night and don't bother us but i still wish i hadn't started that way. di

,

Gypsy sleeps on the bed in the sometimes...think its to get away from the kids (w00t) ...but night time is always in her bed in the kitchen..........she would take up to much room...its bad enough having a bloody man in there with me (w00t) (w00t) (w00t)

I can't help but agree on that one too, :lol:

 

[hely]

Personaly i think its each to their own, as long as the dog/s arent locked in a crate all day and for the wrong reasons then theres nothing wrong with it.....My gypsy sleeps in her bed in the kitchen, she is quite happy in there......i dont think dogs should be sleeping upstairs on their owners beds...but thats just my opinion.......each to their own :thumbsup:

I agree with you hely about not letting the dogs sleep in your room, :thumbsup: (it's something i wish I'd never started but it started when i only had one dog, (w00t) now I've got four., :lol:

They are all good at night and don't bother us but i still wish i hadn't started that way. di

,

Gypsy sleeps on the bed in the sometimes...think its to get away from the kids (w00t) ...but night time is always in her bed in the kitchen..........she would take up to much room...its bad enough having a bloody man in there with me (w00t) (w00t) (w00t)

I can't help but agree on that one too, :lol:

(w00t) (w00t) (w00t) (w00t) (w00t) (w00t)

 

[Janimal]

Id never ever used a crate with any of my other dogs...until I got Oscar in 2004.

We have an upstairs Kitchen and living room so the house

is a bit upside down...I like to call it... not conventional. I invested in a crate and put Oscar in it downstairs with blankets and a nice cosy bed inside while he was a puppy as I also

have cats too...and found it brilliant for the initial introductions and being able to confine him for short periods when I popped out, so he didnt come to any harm.

As soon as he was old enough...I used to open the door and let him come and go as he pleased.....I also did exactly the same with Kobi when he arrived

8 months after Oscar and the same for Archie who is now 2 years old.

The crate has long gone from the house, but wont part with it....just in case I ever get another puppy or have a very sick or older dog.

None of my dogs sleep in a crate now, but when I go out I do have a baby gate on a downstairs room where they sleep with their own sofa bed, so they

dodnt roam round the whole house...chase the cats...or thieve food which they are very good at... :lol:

I fully agree Crates should NEVER be used for long periods at a a time, and have to say I agree with Helen... about dogs sleeping in the BED...I have tried it

a long time ago....didnt get much sleep at all...and the dogs tossed and turned too....so No they have their own space and I have mine too...

Crates are fine as long as they are used correctly . :thumbsup:

 

[sadieandco]

Dont know if this will help but to get our puppies used to their cages we have them out while they are awake and running riot, as pups do but as soon as they go to sleep and need a rest we just put them in there cage, with the door slightly closed but not locked Then the pup can come back out to play when it wakes up.

i think it works well as the pup associates the cage as a sleep den/rest place not a place where he is locked up.

and in time wont mind being left in a cage if need be for a short period of time.

I do have a cage up in the bedroom when i have a pup its out to play before bed and go out to mess then when we go to bed so does the puppy, get the puppy in to your routine of when to go to bed and when its time to get up etc, my way of getting them to sleep through the night .

(w00t)

 

[blissed4ever]

Hi just wanted to say a really big thank you to everyone who posted on this topic. We got our lurcher pup on 22nd december aged 6 weeks and our 5 year old cocker spaniel bitch has been very unhappy ever since. She either pointedly ignores him or attacks him. She gives no warning and attacks regardless of what he is doing. Last week pup ended up with a bitten head and mouth - blood everwhere and an expensive visit to the vet for antibiotics - and I was threatening a kennel in the garden for her. However I re-read the posts and we decided to try the cocker in a crate. We bought a very large one, put toys, a bed, water and treats in it and the cocker goes in a every chance. It is sitting in the living room and so she's not excluded but feels safe. The other dogs are more relaxed and the cocker seems to cope better on our walks (I take care to stop the pup jumping at her).

Thanks again everyone.