What breed is she?

[Jodie Rangers]

Join our free community today.

Connect with other like-minded dog lovers!

Login or Register

...

 

[paperweight]

i don't know, but they're adorable!

 

[Rinkydinkydo]

In the face the pups got the look of a malinois to me. I've most definitely seen black or near black ones in the flesh. What ever its breeding its a bonny looking pup.

Dont pay too much attention to what they say what a breed standard should be. They've managed to ruin many breeds of dogs by having these standards .

 

[JoanneF]

Is your friend ok with you putting pictures of her puppy online? I'm not sure I'd be happy, particularly as it is to validate your opinion that you are right and she is wrong.

 

[Jodie Rangers]

In the face the pups got the look of a malinois to me. I've most definitely seen black or near black ones in the flesh. What ever its breeding its a bonny looking pup.

Dont pay too much attention to what they say what a breed standard should be. They've managed to ruin many breeds of dogs by having these standards .

Well the Malinois is a part of the four breeds which come under the Belgian Shepherd category, but the Malinois is never a black colour, only the Groenendael.

My friend's puppy doesn't even have the same coating as a Malinois.

What breeds have been ruined by having standards? If anything, it is mixing breeds and coming up with names for basically mongrels like Labradoodles and Cockapoos that have ruined standard breeds. Mixing two different breeds can wreck some really good lines when it comes to temperament, etc.

The image you found by searching 'Black Belgian Malinois' doesn't prove a thing. On the contrary, that dog is quite clearly not a Belgian Malinois.

That's a Belgian Malinois. Different shaped face, different type of coat, etc.

Sheperds ears always look floopy as pups ...yes you can get black belgian sheperds. ..a guy in the village has 3... one fawn with a black mask ...one fawn and a black one ...lovely dogsView attachment 111979659

Yeah, Shepherds can be black, but not the Belgian Malinois.

 

[sree]

It can be Belgian Malinois.

 

[Jodie Rangers]

It can be Belgian Malinois.

No, out of the four varieties of the Belgian Shepherd only the Groenendael can be black.

 

[JudyN]

Found online:

The Belgian Malinois is also known as the Belgian Shepherd. There are 4 breeds which fall into the Belgian Shepherd category. Wolfsbane K9 breeds and sells standard colored and rare solid black Belgian Malinois only. Keep in mind that the FCI does not recognize the black coloration as a “true Malinois” but people still come to us in high numbers for them. They are beautiful.

Belgian Malinois Breed Info | Breeders and Trainers

I also found this on Reddit:

Yes, there are pure-bred (on paper) black Malinois. From what I have read during research is that there are six acceptable colors; Fawn, Sable, Dark Sable, BLACK, Blue and Silver. Although, some websites are conflicting and will state that only fawn to sable coloring is pure though. I believe it's a recessive gene from when they interbred the four different types of Belgian shepherds as usually only the Groenendael is mentioned as all black. My pups sire is solid black and listed as pure. Both of his parents are listed as sable and mahogany.

Now, you can of course argue that these people are wrong, and if the dogs have papers to say they're Malinois, they're wrong too, but it looks like there's an element of opinion here. And of course, what is accepted as a recognised colour might not be what emerges in a litter produced from pure-bred parents.

 

[Jodie Rangers]

Found online:



Belgian Malinois Breed Info | Breeders and Trainers

I also found this on Reddit:



Now, you can of course argue that these people are wrong, and if the dogs have papers to say they're Malinois, they're wrong too, but it looks like there's an element of opinion here. And of course, what is accepted as a recognised colour might not be what emerges in a litter produced from pure-bred parents.

With all due respect, someone's opinion on Reddit doesn't really mean anything.

Here you go:

According to the official FCI standard of the breed, there can be no solid black Malinois. The solid black color is allowed (as the only color) only in the Groenendael variety.

The FCI officially doesn’t allow solid black color in Malinois dogs, American Kennel Club too (and probably the majority of other organizations), but you can definitely see a lot of the black ones on the internet. They probably won’t have officially issued pedigrees of these organizations, but people will more often than not still call them Malinois.

It's like someone trying to claim you can get Labrador puppies that are brindle in colour and then suddenly start calling them Labradors. It's just wrong. Plain and simple.

People online will sell the puppies as black Malinoises, but in reality there is no such thing and that's why it's impossible to get papers with a black Malinois.

 

[JudyN]

Someone's opinion on a dog forum doesn't necessarily mean anything either

Like I said, there's a difference between being recognised by an organisation, and actually existing. If, indeed, it is a recessive gene, what happens if two pedigree Malinois produce a black pup? Are you saying that that couldn't happen, or that it wouldn't be a Malinois? Or that the parents should be stripped of their papers because they can't be 'pure', despite meeting the breed standards?

 

[Jodie Rangers]

Someone's opinion on a dog forum doesn't necessarily mean anything either

Like I said, there's a difference between being recognised by an organisation, and actually existing. If, indeed, it is a recessive gene, what happens if two pedigree Malinois produce a black pup? Are you saying that that couldn't happen, or that it wouldn't be a Malinois? Or that the parents should be stripped of their papers because they can't be 'pure', despite meeting the breed standards?

You're right. Someone's opinion on here doesn't really mean anything. But, it's a fact that a black Malinois does not meet the breed standard and no matter how much someone may want to argue that his/her black dog is a Malinois, it is not. Your what ifs are meaningless and total speculation. Two "pure" Malinoises aren't going to produce a black Malinois, that is genetics 101. Black is not considered to be part of the breed standard.

Like I said, a breed standard is there for a reason. There is no such thing as a brindle Labrador, Collie, Rottweiler, etc, etc.

 

[paperweight]

What breeds have been ruined by having standards? If anything, it is mixing breeds and coming up with names for basically mongrels like Labradoodles and Cockapoos that have ruined standard breeds. Mixing two different breeds can wreck some really good lines when it comes to temperament, etc.

i'm curious why, per your other thread, you've decided to get a labradoodle when it sounds like you don't much care for them. would you have preferred a different dog?

 

[Jodie Rangers]

i'm curious why, per your other thread, you've decided to get a labradoodle when it sounds like you don't much care for them. would you have preferred a different dog?

I do care for them, but I don’t pretend that a Labradoodle is a “pure breed” or whatever you want to call it. I don’t have any problems with mixed dogs, why would I?

 

[JoanneF]

What breeds have been ruined by having standards? If anything, it is mixing breeds and coming up with names for basically mongrels like Labradoodles

Mixing two different breeds can wreck some really good lines when it comes to temperament, etc.

That doesn't make it sound like you are particularly keen - must just be the way you worded it.

So, what is it you like about them?

 

[JudyN]

But, it's a fact that a black Malinois does not meet the breed standard

According to the Kennel Club, a breed standard is the guideline describes the ideal characteristics, temperament and appearance, including the correct colour of a breed, and ensures that the breed is fit for function. It does not say that a dog that doesn't meet the breed standards can't be a dog of that breed. The consider parti poodles to be non-breed standard, but still recognise them as poodles.

Two "pure" Malinoises aren't going to produce a black Malinois, that is genetics 101.

Hardly 101 - it depends on dominant/recessive genes, alleles, etc. This article gives just some of the details: http://bsca.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/2015Coat-colour-inheritance.pdf Interestingly, it says that two Malinois can occasionally produce a Tervueren. You could be right that two 'breed standard' Malinois can't produce a black dog (two Tervuerens can't produce a Malinois), but it's not a simple no-brainer. It's also interesting that two dogs of one breed can produce a dog of, nominally, a different breed.

The Kennel Club also recognise several colour types (see below). black isn't included, but it shows that there's a fair amount of genetic variation. It's an interesting subject!

• Fawn
• Fawn Black Mask
• Fawn Black Mask & Overlay
• Fawn Black Overlay
• Grey
• Grey Black Mask
• Grey Black Overlay
• Red
• Red Black Mask
• Red Black Overlay
• Red Black Overlay Black Mask
• Red Fawn
• Red Grey Sable
  
  
  

 

[Tinytom]

The guy from our village has a KC reg Black Malinois...he cannot be shown because of the colour but is still registered as a malinois..
Some of the different colours you seeing french Bulldogs are also not recognized as show types but can still be registered

 

[Jodie Rangers]

The guy from our village has a KC reg Black Malinois...he cannot be shown because of the colour but is still registered as a malinois..
Some of the different colours you seeing french Bulldogs are also not recognized as show types but can still be registered

No, he does not. How can his dog be KC registered when the KC doesn't accept black as one of the colours of the breed?

• Fawn
• Fawn Black Mask
• Fawn Black Mask & Overlay
• Fawn Black Overlay
• Grey
• Grey Black Mask
• Grey Black Overlay
• Red
• Red Black Mask
• Red Black Overlay
• Red Black Overlay Black Mask
• Red Fawn
• Red Grey Sable

Belgian Shepherd Dog (Malinois) | Breeds A-Z | Kennel Club

A dog that is not considered to be a part of the standard breed cannot be KC registered.

 

[Jodie Rangers]

That doesn't make it sound like you are particularly keen - must just be the way you worded it.

So, what is it you like about them?

No, I stand by what I wrote. It's not just mixing breeds that could have negative outcomes. Many people breed their bitches too often, many people don't really care about the lineage of their dogs to keep the temperaments and only care about capital, etc. I'm aware that all dogs are a mixture of different dogs, but over time there becomes a standard breed and many breeders think it's important to keep the breeds "pure" or whatever you want to call it. Dog breeds are different.

My friend has two Labradoodles. Labradors are known to want to greet everyone and are more friendly than some other breeders are typically. I like the mixture of the Poodle when it comes to a Labradoodle's coat. I also like the fact that they aren't too big. Of course my dog may not turn out to be like my friend's dogs, but I've never met a bad Labradoodle.

 

[JoanneF]

A dog that is not considered to be a part of the standard breed cannot be KC registered.

You are wrong.

Kennel Club Addresses Issue of Unrecognised Colour Registrations in Pedigree Dogs

 

[JudyN]

Parti poodles can be registered with the AKC and the UK Kennel Club without being breed standard. And the KC would still consider them to be poodles even if they weren't either a breed standard colour or a recognised non-standard colour.