What Drives A Breed

[UKUSA]

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Well, it seems a while since we ve had a good old discussion on here so how about this, for a new topic. What do people think?

What drives a breed and moves it forward? Is it a great dog or bitch whose mark left on the breed is irrefutable. What part do judges play, specialist versus all rounder , that in itself is interesting as probably we in this country have more breeder judges than I believe our friends in Europe or the U.S, so how great is the influence of the all rounder in these countries? And how do exhibitors feel here? Specialist or all rounder? Do judges "change" a breed or do the breeders? So what do you all think?

Nicky

 

[T Hoare]

Potentially a good topic Nicky with several questions and one I will have to think about before answering properly. :sweating:

 

[patsy]

Well, it seems a while since we ve had a good old discussion on here so how about this, for a new topic. What do people think?What drives a breed and moves it forward? Is it a great dog or bitch whose mark left on the breed is irrefutable. What part do judges play, specialist versus all rounder , that in itself is interesting as probably we in this country have more breeder judges than I believe our friends in Europe or the U.S, so how great is the influence of the all rounder  in these countries? And how do exhibitors feel here? Specialist or all rounder? Do judges "change" a breed or do the breeders? So what do you all think?

Nicky

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What a good topic Nicky, its been so boring of late.

 

[UKUSA]

Well theres nothing on the box!!!!!

Nicky

 

[bertha]

Well theres nothing on the box!!!!!Nicky

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Dr Who!!!!

Will reply properly when I have time to consider this. :- "

 

[fable]

What an interesting topic- I'm looking forward to hearing people's opinions.

Val

 

[dawn]

Well theres nothing on the box!!!!!Nicky

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Dr Who!!!!

Will reply properly when I have time to consider this. :- "

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[SIZE=14pt]OFF TOPIC (already) What was Dr Who all about?[/SIZE]

 

[JAX]

Well, it seems a while since we ve had a good old discussion on here so how about this, for a new topic. What do people think?What drives a breed and moves it forward? Is it a great dog or bitch whose mark left on the breed is irrefutable. What part do judges play, specialist versus all rounder , that in itself is interesting as probably we in this country have more breeder judges than I believe our friends in Europe or the U.S, so how great is the influence of the all rounder  in these countries? And how do exhibitors feel here? Specialist or all rounder? Do judges "change" a breed or do the breeders? So what do you all think?

Nicky

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What a good topic Nicky, its been so boring of late.

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So why havnt YOU given us something exciting to read then Patsy :lol: Im sure you must know some funny stories :wacko:

I too watch Dr Who and im not sure what it was about either :wacko: , changing the subject :- " I do so love Cpt Jack :wub: ok I do know hes gay

will have to think about reply too , brain dead at mo

 

[anniewhippet]

Well, it seems a while since we ve had a good old discussion on here so how about this, for a new topic. What do people think?What drives a breed and moves it forward? Is it a great dog or bitch whose mark left on the breed is irrefutable. What part do judges play, specialist versus all rounder , that in itself is interesting as probably we in this country have more breeder judges than I believe our friends in Europe or the U.S, so how great is the influence of the all rounder  in these countries? And how do exhibitors feel here? Specialist or all rounder? Do judges "change" a breed or do the breeders? So what do you all think?

Nicky

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:blink: gosh Nicky what a great topic but after a long day, and recovering from a recent visit to Disney :blink: , I think I need some time to think about this :wacko: as there are quite a few points queried within one paragraph. :sweating:

get back to you........... :teehee:

 

[anniewhippet]

OK I will start but this is without much thought on the subject so possibily dangerous

When a great dog or bitch appears in the breed, and by great I do mean an animal who fits the standard & offers much to the breed in conformation, movement etc etc, this influences the future via its progeny as it is usually used extensively, or bred from.

As to the judges..... I feel in this country the strength of influence comes from the breed judges. Personnally although it is fantastic to win I feel it is always a greater tribute to do this under a breed specialist with the depth of knowledge brought into the ring.

Think I might be rambling :blink: & not making alot of sense so will give it more thought

anyway over to those who have more living brain cells than me tonight :b

 

[UKUSA]

Ok as I didnt watch Dr Who so have NO idea what went on Ill kick things off! Certainly for me, since my return to this country, the dog that I feel changed the breed or moved it into another direction was Hillsdown Fergal and I do not think that his influence can be underestimated, not only in this country but Europe too and I think that even now several generations on you can still "see" him. So for me his influence was irrefutable.

I think that in this country we are lucky that the majority of our judges are breeder judges, generally looking for more than "flash and dash". I think that when you have a country where allrounders out number breeder judges a breed can be driven into an altogether different direction and you can end up with a generic show dog, not really one thing or another but flashy and able to fly around the ring at the speed of sound.

Nicky

 

[UKUSA]

Yes Annie I think you are right, winning under a breed specialist does mean more. Having lived in a country and visited other countries where the all rounder is the norm and to show under a breed specialist is a rarity I do think that all rounders have too much influence in the direction a breed takes maybe because they arent looking for or care about the same things that a specialist is looking for or wants and so you end up with the generic show dog.

Nicky

 

[patsy]

Ok  as I didnt watch Dr Who so have NO idea what went on Ill kick things off! Certainly for me, since my return to this country, the dog that I feel changed the breed or moved it into another direction was Hillsdown Fergal and I do not think that his influence can be underestimated, not only in this country but Europe too and I think that even now several generations on you can still "see" him. So for me his influence was irrefutable.I think that in this country we are lucky that the majority of our judges are breeder judges, generally looking for more than "flash and dash". I think that when you have a country where allrounders out number breeder judges a breed can be driven into an altogether different direction and you can end up with a .generic show dog, not really one thing or another but flashy and able to fly around the ring at the speed of sound.

Nicky

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Although Hillsdown Fergal himself could not be called a great show dog he certainly was a great sire, his son the fabulous Dutch Gold was both, a great show dog and a great sire.

 

[bertha]

Ok  as I didnt watch Dr Who so have NO idea what went on Ill kick things off! Certainly for me, since my return to this country, the dog that I feel changed the breed or moved it into another direction was Hillsdown Fergal and I do not think that his influence can be underestimated, not only in this country but Europe too and I think that even now several generations on you can still "see" him. So for me his influence was irrefutable.I think that in this country we are lucky that the majority of our judges are breeder judges, generally looking for more than "flash and dash". I think that when you have a country where allrounders out number breeder judges a breed can be driven into an altogether different direction and you can end up with a .generic show dog, not really one thing or another but flashy and able to fly around the ring at the speed of sound.

Nicky

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Although Hillsdown Fergal himself could not be called a great show dog he certainly was a great sire, his son the fabulous Dutch Gold was both, a great show dog and a great sire.

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Yes that is so, but Dutch Gold never really reproduced himself, a lot of his progeny were very different where as Fergal you could tell his stock from others. That is having an influence on the breed.

Also I do think all rounders tend to just put up the well know winners, where a breed specialist in theory should look at the dogs not the the owners.

 

[jok]

Ok  as I didnt watch Dr Who so have NO idea what went on Ill kick things off! Certainly for me, since my return to this country, the dog that I feel changed the breed or moved it into another direction was Hillsdown Fergal and I do not think that his influence can be underestimated, not only in this country but Europe too and I think that even now several generations on you can still "see" him. So for me his influence was irrefutable.I think that in this country we are lucky that the majority of our judges are breeder judges, generally looking for more than "flash and dash". I think that when you have a country where allrounders out number breeder judges a breed can be driven into an altogether different direction and you can end up with a .generic show dog, not really one thing or another but flashy and able to fly around the ring at the speed of sound.

Nicky

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Although Hillsdown Fergal himself could not be called a great show dog he certainly was a great sire, his son the fabulous Dutch Gold was both, a great show dog and a great sire.

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Yes that is so, but Dutch Gold never really reproduced himself, a lot of his progeny were very different where as Fergal you could tell his stock from others. That is having an influence on the breed.

Also I do think all rounders tend to just put up the well know winners, where a breed specialist in theory should look at the dogs not the the owners.

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Well surely ALL judges should do this, all rounders as well as specialists

 

[bertha]

Ok  as I didnt watch Dr Who so have NO idea what went on Ill kick things off! Certainly for me, since my return to this country, the dog that I feel changed the breed or moved it into another direction was Hillsdown Fergal and I do not think that his influence can be underestimated, not only in this country but Europe too and I think that even now several generations on you can still "see" him. So for me his influence was irrefutable.I think that in this country we are lucky that the majority of our judges are breeder judges, generally looking for more than "flash and dash". I think that when you have a country where allrounders out number breeder judges a breed can be driven into an altogether different direction and you can end up with a .generic show dog, not really one thing or another but flashy and able to fly around the ring at the speed of sound.

Nicky

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Although Hillsdown Fergal himself could not be called a great show dog he certainly was a great sire, his son the fabulous Dutch Gold was both, a great show dog and a great sire.

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Yes that is so, but Dutch Gold never really reproduced himself, a lot of his progeny were very different where as Fergal you could tell his stock from others. That is having an influence on the breed.

Also I do think all rounders tend to just put up the well know winners, where a breed specialist in theory should look at the dogs not the the owners.

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Well surely ALL judges should do this, all rounders as well as specialists

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[/quote

In theory but not always true, been around a long time, it makes one a bit cyncal! :- "

 

[Seraphina]

All rounders study the standards of other breeds then learn about them by listening to breeders and looking at the winning dogs . They then put them up believing that is the best. Just recently i was at lunch where I talked to an all breeds judge, when he told me what he looks for when judging Whippets I knew immediately who he's been talking to

 

[GotWhippet?]

It means more to me to get a cc from a specialist whippet judge. To me 100x more than from an all rounder. I won't go into details about all rounders, corruption and politics with judging in this country, it's been talked about in the Aussie dog papers enough already. Suffice to say I'd rather save my money and go see a good movie than pay for their opinion.

Anyway that is a good question you asked and really difficult to answer. I can only say when I lived in the USA I saw whippets at the dog shows and knew what dogs I liked. I came back to Austalia and saw what I liked which was INT CH Statuesque Extortion so went about getting a whip from that kennel. I wouldn't say the lines I have are "flavor of the month" with other breeders or judges because so few people have them and they look so different to the "norm" that you see now. With that being said they sure did alot of winning at the top level in this country.

Right now I wouldn't say there is any "one" stand out whippet in this country.

 

[JAX]

Ok  as I didnt watch Dr Who so have NO idea what went on Ill kick things off! Certainly for me, since my return to this country, the dog that I feel changed the breed or moved it into another direction was Hillsdown Fergal and I do not think that his influence can be underestimated, not only in this country but Europe too and I think that even now several generations on you can still "see" him. So for me his influence was irrefutable.I think that in this country we are lucky that the majority of our judges are breeder judges, generally looking for more than "flash and dash". I think that when you have a country where allrounders out number breeder judges a breed can be driven into an altogether different direction and you can end up with a .generic show dog, not really one thing or another but flashy and able to fly around the ring at the speed of sound.

Nicky

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Although Hillsdown Fergal himself could not be called a great show dog he certainly was a great sire, his son the fabulous Dutch Gold was both, a great show dog and a great sire.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Yes that is so, but Dutch Gold never really reproduced himself, a lot of his progeny were very different where as Fergal you could tell his stock from others. That is having an influence on the breed.

Also I do think all rounders tend to just put up the well know winners, where a breed specialist in theory should look at the dogs not the the owners.

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Well surely ALL judges should do this, all rounders as well as specialists

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You are quite right Jo which just proves that judges picking `the dog on a roll ` as it were can make a huge differance to the breed. New comers and novice breeders will use the dog( if it is a male of course) thinking it must be a good whippet to have done so much winning

 

[shenace]

Well down under it is quite a rarity that we have breeder judges

With only one Whippet club champ show in the North Island & one in the Sth Island each year, our showing is mostly in the All Breeds Ring. Even Hound shows are VERY limited, I also show gundogs & we have bucket loads of shows & specialists to attend.

Sadly, the all rounders are going for the flashy, fly around the ring at the speed of sound style :rant: they will forgive size & lack of breed type in favour for the highly glam creatures, not only is it annoying, but it is also to the detriment of the breed

I think that in this country we are lucky that the majority of our judges are breeder judges, generally looking for more than "flash and dash". I think that when you have a country where allrounders out number breeder judges a breed can be driven into an altogether different direction and you can end up with a generic show dog, not really one thing or another but flashy and able to fly around the ring at the speed of sound.Nicky

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