What Should The Protein Content Be

[~Annie~]

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A friend and I have been comparing the protein content of our dogs diets.

My adult whippets are fed Nature Diet and Skinners Field and Trial. Her whippet cross is fed the same Field and Trial and Chappie.

If you do a dry matter analysis on the two wet foods above to facilitate comparison with the Field and Trial, Nature Diet is 10% protein but 75% moisture leaving 25% dry matter and 10 divided by 25 x 100 = 40% protein, where Chappie is 6% protein and 74% moisture leaving 26% dry matter and 6 divided by 26 x 100 = 23% protein. The Field and Trial kibble we both feed is 20% protein.

So assuming the dogs are getting roughly 50% of their protein intake from each food my dogs average 30% protein and her dog averages 21.5% protein. Her dog weighs roughly the same as my whips and is, like mine, an agility dog that is occasionally raced. Can anyone tell us whether they think her dog is getting too little protein or maybe mine are getting too much?

Also, my whippet pup is being fed Nature Diet Puppy which at 12% protein and 75% moisture works out at 48% protein on a dry matter analysis, where the Field and Trial Puppy is only 27%. It has been suggested to me that my whips are bigger than they would otherwise have been because they have all been reared on the Nature Diet and that the protein content is too high for a puppy as so much protein encourages rapid growth. I know this protein/growth rate connection has been scientifically proven but I would value other opinions on whether feeding whippet pups a high protein puppy diet means they'll grown taller than on a lower protein diet.

Oh and I understand that the digestibility of protein is an issue but all the foods listed have premium protein ingredients, with the possible exception of the Chappie, so these dogs really are getting that much protein everyday

Thanks, Annie

 

[bertha]

The amount of protein should not make a vast difference to their size. Who ever told you that doesn't know what they are talking about. As long as they have a balanced diet with between 18% and 25% for adults and higher for puppies they should be okay. Puppies need more protein because they burn up a lot of energy growing, the same applies to working dogs and racing dogs.

 

[TC]

A friend and I have been comparing the protein content of our dogs diets.
My adult whippets are fed Nature Diet and Skinners Field and Trial. Her whippet cross is fed the same Field and Trial and Chappie.

If you do a dry matter analysis on the two wet foods above to facilitate comparison with the Field and Trial, Nature Diet is 10% protein but 75% moisture leaving 25% dry matter and 10 divided by 25 x 100 = 40% protein, where Chappie is 6% protein and 74% moisture leaving 26% dry matter and 6 divided by 26 x 100 = 23% protein. The Field and Trial kibble we both feed is 20% protein.

So assuming the dogs are getting roughly 50% of their protein intake from each food my dogs average 30% protein and her dog averages 21.5% protein. Her dog weighs roughly the same as my whips and is, like mine, an agility dog that is occasionally raced. Can anyone tell us whether they think her dog is getting too little protein or maybe mine are getting too much?

Also, my whippet pup is being fed Nature Diet Puppy which at 12% protein and 75% moisture works out at 48% protein on a dry matter analysis, where the Field and Trial Puppy is only 27%. It has been suggested to me that my whips are bigger than they would otherwise have been because they have all been reared on the Nature Diet and that the protein content is too high for a puppy as so much protein encourages rapid growth. I know this protein/growth rate connection has been scientifically proven but I would value other opinions on whether feeding whippet pups a high protein puppy diet means they'll grown taller than on a lower protein diet.

Oh and I understand that the digestibility of protein is an issue but all the foods listed have premium protein ingredients, with the possible exception of the Chappie, so these dogs really are getting that much protein everyday

Thanks, Annie

Sorry but imo that is laughable. Where is the scientific evidence then please? Not directing that at you TMC, but just just want to know.

My dogs are fed totally BARF. They only get veg a couple of times a week and they have a bit of dairy and a couple of eggs. Their diets are therefore high in protein.

Ruso have never had anything else. Ruso was weaned on BARF, and he's 19 1/4 inches and 26-27lb depending on exercise levels.

If the theory you talk about is true then he'd be bigger surely?

Say you buy two dog pups from the same litter. Both weaned the same, and both fed the same in their new home. One could end up 20" and one could end up 22" so to me that theory is blown out the window.

As far as food and pups are concerned, and as far as I'm concerned, a pup will thrive on good food but will only grow as big as it's genes allow i.e. the way it's made. If fed a poor diet (and by that I mean malnourished) then yes, it's diet may effect it's size. Just my opinion of course.

Dogs only grow when they are sleeping. Therefore growth will be effected if they don't get enough sleep, but even if they sleep all day and all night a whippet still doesn't end up the size of a greyhound does it? It can only grow as much as it's body will allow.

Not meaning to be pedantic and just my opinion

TCx

 

[bertha]

You made me smile TC! the idea of dogs growing all the time they are asleep, just imagined a lazy yorkie ending up looking like and old english sheepdog. (w00t) (w00t)

ps, I know they do grow while sleeping. :lol:

 

[~Annie~]

A friend and I have been comparing the protein content of our dogs diets.
My adult whippets are fed Nature Diet and Skinners Field and Trial. Her whippet cross is fed the same Field and Trial and Chappie.

If you do a dry matter analysis on the two wet foods above to facilitate comparison with the Field and Trial, Nature Diet is 10% protein but 75% moisture leaving 25% dry matter and 10 divided by 25 x 100 = 40% protein, where Chappie is 6% protein and 74% moisture leaving 26% dry matter and 6 divided by 26 x 100 = 23% protein. The Field and Trial kibble we both feed is 20% protein.

So assuming the dogs are getting roughly 50% of their protein intake from each food my dogs average 30% protein and her dog averages 21.5% protein. Her dog weighs roughly the same as my whips and is, like mine, an agility dog that is occasionally raced. Can anyone tell us whether they think her dog is getting too little protein or maybe mine are getting too much?

Also, my whippet pup is being fed Nature Diet Puppy which at 12% protein and 75% moisture works out at 48% protein on a dry matter analysis, where the Field and Trial Puppy is only 27%. It has been suggested to me that my whips are bigger than they would otherwise have been because they have all been reared on the Nature Diet and that the protein content is too high for a puppy as so much protein encourages rapid growth. I know this protein/growth rate connection has been scientifically proven but I would value other opinions on whether feeding whippet pups a high protein puppy diet means they'll grown taller than on a lower protein diet.

Oh and I understand that the digestibility of protein is an issue but all the foods listed have premium protein ingredients, with the possible exception of the Chappie, so these dogs really are getting that much protein everyday

Thanks, Annie

Sorry but imo that is laughable. Where is the scientific evidence then please? Not directing that at you TMC, but just just want to know.

My dogs are fed totally BARF. They only get veg a couple of times a week and they have a bit of dairy and a couple of eggs. Their diets are therefore high in protein.

Ruso have never had anything else. Ruso was weaned on BARF, and he's 19 1/4 inches and 26-27lb depending on exercise levels.

If the theory you talk about is true then he'd be bigger surely?

Say you buy two dog pups from the same litter. Both weaned the same, and both fed the same in their new home. One could end up 20" and one could end up 22" so to me that theory is blown out the window.

As far as food and pups are concerned, and as far as I'm concerned, a pup will thrive on good food but will only grow as big as it's genes allow i.e. the way it's made. If fed a poor diet (and by that I mean malnourished) then yes, it's diet may effect it's size. Just my opinion of course.

Dogs only grow when they are sleeping. Therefore growth will be effected if they don't get enough sleep, but even if they sleep all day and all night a whippet still doesn't end up the size of a greyhound does it? It can only grow as much as it's body will allow.

Not meaning to be pedantic and just my opinion

TCx

S'alright TC, I think the notion that their diet is why my whips are 21" and not 19" is laughable too, hence my interest in finding people who agreed with me ... but when I said the protein/growth rate connection had been scientifically proven I was meaning lack of protein stunting growth, which I believe is proven, and not the reverse as claimed by the person concerned ... I mentioned it though in case anyone knew of any evidence to the contrary (e.g. I think I've come across recommendations that Great Dane pups not be fed high protein diets as a means to avoid osteochondrosis).

I was actually more interested in the answer to the first part of my question ... does anyone know what the optimum protein content of an adult whippets diet should be? Wonder what % protein a whole rabbit is?

 

[TC]

I think Anne's percentages are a good guideline.

Here's a list of animals and their meat percentages...

Meat Type Protein %

Rabbit 20.8

Chicken 20.0

Veal 18.8

Turkey 20.1

Lamb 15.7

Beef 16.3

Pork 11.9

Sorry can't make it come out in neat columns :angry:

I've never got that hung up about it to be honest so can't quote figures about what mine have as pups protein percentage wise sorry.

Here's a post I did on another forum about what mine get to eat to put you in the picture. It's not all relevant but esier than typing it all out again :b

I feed a variety of meat, minced chicken, beef, rabbit and lamb. I don't feed much tripe. Lamb ribs and Chicken wings and necks. Marrowbones. Some veg, some cheese and yoghurt, some fish, the odd egg and that's it really. I also use Keepers Mix (a natural supplement made by Dorwest Herbs)
Mine are varying in weight, make up, and metabolism so they get fed different amouts like most people will probably find they have to.

BARF feeding (the actual feeding part) is not a science and can't be written down in stone for everyone to follow because each dog really does need a different amount. However, that does not make it difficult or complicated, honestly! You will find that you can settle on the correct amount very quickly as long as you look at your dogs...

Mine have their food split into two meals. No medical reasoning behind this, I just think 24 hours is a blooming long time in between feeds.

Badger is 20" and 29lb and 18 months old. He would have the following....

Breakfast

6x two joint chicken wings or 2/3 x three joint

or

2 x lamb ribs

or

1/2 lb chicken neck

Main meal in evening

Rack of lamb ribs (5)

or

1 and 1/2 lb of minced meat and veg

or

8/10 x two joint chicken wings or 4 x three joint wings

or

a 1lb - 1 and 1/2lb turkey neck

or

a tin of mackerel in oil with a handful of wholemeal biscuit (laughing dog puppy/terrier mix)

I'll throw an egg or yoghurt on their meat at least once a week but more often twice and give them a few lumps of cheese throughout the week as well.

If I go out and leave them then they all get a chicken wing so sometimes if I'm in and out and they end up getting 3 in the day as just 'good bye treats' then I will reduce the amount of food in their evening meal.

Don't panic and just take things slow and do it by eye. Make sure you freeze them first, as all meat that you feed should be frozen to kill bugs.

I don't feed pork because of the threat of worms.

Badger competes in racing and lure coursing and also works, so his food can be upped a couple of times a week to counteract weight loss due to extra exercise. I just look at him every day and decide what he needs. Likewise, if Ruso or Winx need to be fit for lure coursing or racing, I make changes to get them at the right weight, and also give them extra to balance out the exertion. It really doesn't take long for you to find out what suits your dog/s.

At the moment we have a 15 week old pup who is going through a pound of meat a day and the equivalent in meaty bones as well so she's consuming 2lb of food a day the same as Badger!

Good luck

TCx

Notice the bit about Kia (OH's lurcher puppy) She is now almost a year and he's gutted she hasn't grown as much as he wanted and she was eating he same as an adult whippet at 15 weeks old (w00t) If it's not there, it's not there...no matter how much you shove in lol!

TCx

 

[Noise]

I believe it's the large and giant breeds who have to watch protein levels carefully in puppyhood, high protein levels will spur growth but their bones won't be able to keep up with them.

also, I don't think the definition of a good diet is that scientific - whatever you feed, be it BARF, dry, wet - if your dog looks to be in good condition and in good health, it's all that matter. what's the point in saying that an adult whippet is supposed to have that much protein, that much fibre, that many meals a day - if the dog is not doing well? and judging by their pics, your whippies look super :wub:

for the record, Eskil now (and Popsy too) are on AG large breed puppy with 26% protein, they get loads of walks and freerunning a couple of times a week, I'd say moderate excercise, they're at good weight, shiny soft coats, good tums and number twos.

 

[Fleesh]

The body is very good at breaking down excess protein, generally it'll just get broken down, enter the urea cycle and be peed out :thumbsup:

I'm 6ft tall, I can hardly think it's down to my 5ft 5" Mum feeding me too much protein as a kid :b .

 

[jinnyfizz]

Dogs only grow when they are sleeping. TCx

Ah Ha!! So that is why there is less room for me in the bed every morning when I wake up :clown: - Izzy is growing overnight!!! :thumbsup:

Sorry I can't contribute to the thread much, Annie, as mine are fed purely BARF and always have been from their arrival in the jinnyfizz household. Never had any tummy problems with any of them and they have boundless energy :sweating:

Very interesting to hear the different opinions tho' :thumbsup:

 

[masta]

quote from -

Energy and the Working Dog

Angie Untisz DVM

Proteins are the building blocks of muscle and should not be a major source of energy.

Animal source proteins (chicken, beef, lamb, egg, etc.) are preferred and often offer increased

digestibility with a good amino acid balance. Diets low in protein have been associated with

increased injuries. A working dog diet should have a minimum 26% protein. For hard

working dogs, diets containing 30-40% protein are even better. The goal is to spare the use of

protein as an energy source so it can be used to build muscle mass and repair muscle

damage.

In summary, working dogs should be fed a diet high in fat to optimize energy availability

and high in protein to protect against injury. Carbohydrates should be supplemented at

appropriate times to improve their storage. Remember, feed for energy and you will have

energetic dogs.

Author’s note: I am frequently asked what and how I feed my dogs. I feed a quality

performance kibble that is 32% protein and 21% fat. I add a balanced fat supplement so that

total calories from fat range from 50-55%. Approximately 13-18% calories are from

carbohydrates. I adjust the total amount fed based on the dog’s activity and body condition.

(Beware, feeding a high energy diet can lead to obesity if one is not monitoring the dog’s

body condition on a regular basis.) I give a maltodextrin supplement after working. I give

500mg Vitamin E, 500mg l-carnitine and 400mg glucosamine daily.

 

[pippywhippet]

I feed a grain free high quality kibble which is 40% protein in the main morning feed, and raw in the evening- usually lamb ribs, green tripe, chicken wings or beef mince.

My 3 are between 19" and 20.5" They are fit, healthy and fairly lean

 

[TillynPip]

A friend and I have been comparing the protein content of our dogs diets.
My adult whippets are fed Nature Diet and Skinners Field and Trial. Her whippet cross is fed the same Field and Trial and Chappie.

If you do a dry matter analysis on the two wet foods above to facilitate comparison with the Field and Trial, Nature Diet is 10% protein but 75% moisture leaving 25% dry matter and 10 divided by 25 x 100 = 40% protein, where Chappie is 6% protein and 74% moisture leaving 26% dry matter and 6 divided by 26 x 100 = 23% protein. The Field and Trial kibble we both feed is 20% protein.

So assuming the dogs are getting roughly 50% of their protein intake from each food my dogs average 30% protein and her dog averages 21.5% protein. Her dog weighs roughly the same as my whips and is, like mine, an agility dog that is occasionally raced. Can anyone tell us whether they think her dog is getting too little protein or maybe mine are getting too much?

Also, my whippet pup is being fed Nature Diet Puppy which at 12% protein and 75% moisture works out at 48% protein on a dry matter analysis, where the Field and Trial Puppy is only 27%. It has been suggested to me that my whips are bigger than they would otherwise have been because they have all been reared on the Nature Diet and that the protein content is too high for a puppy as so much protein encourages rapid growth. I know this protein/growth rate connection has been scientifically proven but I would value other opinions on whether feeding whippet pups a high protein puppy diet means they'll grown taller than on a lower protein diet.

Oh and I understand that the digestibility of protein is an issue but all the foods listed have premium protein ingredients, with the possible exception of the Chappie, so these dogs really are getting that much protein everyday

Thanks, Annie

My brain hurts !!! :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: