Whippet / Cavalier X ...

[luvlyjubly77]

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Following a comment on my thread from yesterday (about my new puppy Bella), I thought I'd continue with a plea for your thoughts on the matter ...

Debate: Do you think it's OK to breed whippets with other non-sight hounds? If not, why not?

My thoughts on it are that there are many breeds for many sorts of different people. I think it's ok to interbreed, just so long as the resulting puppies are healthy, well built, happy, and not just a marketing ploy to line the pockets of unscrupulous breeders.

I also think that some cross breeds can be a little hardier in some ways to pure breeds, which is a benefit. Of course, this isn't so apparent in Whippets because as a breed, they suffer from relatively little genetic health disorders.

The Whippet/Cavalier cross breed was actually begun in the 1920's, where they were called 'Tudor Hounds' so although rare, these dogs aren't new. So in this instance, the arrival of my little pup Bella wasn't a happy accident. It was a premeditated breeding. When I met the breeder, she said that she had kept Tudor Hounds about 8 years ago, but hadn't bred them since then, because she was waiting for the right parent dogs to come along. She was a very kind and caring woman who cared greatly for all her animals.

I also like the fact that other breeds are interbred, such as Cavapoos, Labradoodles, Puggles, etc. This provides more choice for dog lovers, with the resulting dogs often being highly attractive and well-tempered.

N.B. I don't wish to start an argument by writing this thread. I am very open minded and laid back. I know it sounds defensive, but I'm just curious of what you think, so all responses are invited and welcomed. )

 

[senga]

hi there i am curious too see what she looks like can you post a pic? :thumbsup:

 

[kim & Tilly]

If as you have found out your interbreeding was historically done and was considered a breed of dog fair enough...

But Cavapoos, Labradoodles, Puggles is just Bo****Ks :angry:

They are mongrels and will always be so...

Only my opinion mind and im NO breeder, so what do i know

But as been said beofre many people are parting with a LOT of money because they are getting a rare breed huuummmm are they :- "

 

[Strike Whippets]

Whippets are bred with non sighthounds ......In most cases they are called Lurchers ......In other cases they are called Opps

Anybreed or cross breed WILL carry genetic disorders ........Whippets have their own problems aswell as other breeds .......Cavs are well known for heart problems .......as a matter of fact ALL pedigree breeds carry at least 1 problem .......I have a Collie/GSD/Dob x and she has an enlarged heart, hip and elbow are shot oh and she probably has the onset of wobblers .....at the age of 7 !!!! ........

But if I hear right that people are paying over £300 for a crossbred .....then really i'd have to ask myself if these puppies are so expensive because they have been brought up correctly, been tattoed/microchipped, been delt with and health checked by a vet at least twice, dewclawed/docked professionally, wormed every 2 weeks from birth, housetrained etc ???? ......cos quite frankly I sold my last litter of PEDIGREE Whippets for £350 with at least all of the above mentioned done (and they were Kennel Club reg, 6 weeks free insurance, their own food, lead, meat, booklets etc.....) ...........Plus I KNEW what was behind the pedigree ....so I could tell you about the last 7 generations behind the puppy ......health/attitude and characters ......... :thumbsup:

BTW I work in kennels and the only 2 Labradoodles we board are VERY nasty .....guess they got the worst of each parent ..........

I personally think theres enough "unwanted x bred dogs" in the world without deliberatly breeding more Just my personal opinion though ......

 

[luvlyjubly77]

hi there i am curious too see what she looks like can you post a pic? :thumbsup:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Hi Senga,

Here's the link to find Bella's photos:

http://www.k9community.co.uk/forums/index....showtopic=21882

Many thanks,

Tanya.

 

[whippeteerThe1st]

i hav no problem with inventors of new breeds ,,,,after all we wouldnt have the breeds we have now if it wasnt for people breeding new breeds say 100 years ago e.t.c,,,

i.e greyhound x terrier = whippet

but having said that it would be nice if there was as use for the new breeds i.e hunting,, working,,or racing

if the breeder off new breeds has use for them then it,s a good thing in my book :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[lalena]

i've known some lovely x breeds, but personally theyre not for me. you cannot know for sure what they'll inherit from each parent, and even litter mates can wildly vary in behavior/size/appearance. my mum in laws old dogs were brothers from the same litter, collie x lab, for which she paid £500 the pair (otherwise £300 each) gus looked like a collie, raz looked like a lab, and both far exceeded their parents for size. in character, gus was more lab, ie placid, whereas raz who looked lab was as hyper as a collie :wacko:

 

[~whitecross whippets~]

surely all breeds began because they were crossed to other breeds in the first place...for instance the whippet was a cross of greyhound/terrier wasnt it?

i am not agreeing or disagreeing in particular...just a thought? :thumbsup:

 

[kim & Tilly]

i hav no problem with inventors of new breeds ,,,,after all we wouldnt have the breeds we have now if it wasnt for people breeding new breeds say 100 years ago e.t.c,,,i.e greyhound x terrier = whippet

but having said that it would be nice if there was as use for the new breeds i.e hunting,, working,,or racing

if the breeder off new breeds has use for them then it,s a good thing in my book :thumbsup:   :thumbsup:

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Yeah but not saying oh this is a very rare breed that will be £800 please :wacko:

 

[Susan]

I think she is a bonny puppy ,,I would never pay that much for her though

I got a collie x years ago for nothing and he was the best dog in the world , he was only at the vet for his boosters . The whippets are at the vet all the time :- " :- " :- "

I did think it was an accident mating though, it can happen. I have never heard of Tudor Hounds before :b :b you learn something new every day

Good luck with your wee puppy, she is beautiful and I hope you post more photo's of her growing up :thumbsup:

 

[whippeteerThe1st]

i hav no problem with inventors of new breeds ,,,,after all we wouldnt have the breeds we have now if it wasnt for people breeding new breeds say 100 years ago e.t.c,,,i.e greyhound x terrier = whippet

but having said that it would be nice if there was as use for the new breeds i.e hunting,, working,,or racing

if the breeder off new breeds has use for them then it,s a good thing in my book :thumbsup:   :thumbsup:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Yeah but not saying oh this is a very rare breed that will be £800 please :wacko:

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thats up to the people that are buying them,,,if they want to part with their cash,,

 

[kris]

Whippets are bred with non sighthounds ......In most cases they are called Lurchers ......In other cases they are called Opps 


Anybreed or cross breed WILL carry genetic disorders ........Whippets have their own problems aswell as other breeds .......Cavs are well known for heart problems .......as a matter of fact ALL pedigree breeds carry at least 1 problem .......I have a Collie/GSD/Dob x and she has an enlarged heart, hip and elbow are shot oh and she probably has the onset of wobblers    .....at the age of 7 !!!! ........

But if I hear right that people are paying over £300 for a crossbred .....then really i'd have to ask myself if these puppies are so expensive because they have been brought up correctly, been tattoed/microchipped, been delt with and health checked by a vet at least twice, dewclawed/docked professionally, wormed every 2 weeks from birth, housetrained etc ???? ......cos quite frankly I sold my last litter of PEDIGREE Whippets for £350 with at least all of the above mentioned done (and they were Kennel Club reg, 6 weeks free insurance, their own food, lead, meat, booklets etc.....) ...........Plus I KNEW what was behind the pedigree ....so I could tell you about the last 7 generations behind the puppy ......health/attitude and characters ......... :thumbsup:

BTW I work in kennels and the only 2 Labradoodles we board are VERY nasty .....guess they got the worst of each parent ..........

I personally think theres enough "unwanted x bred dogs" in the world without deliberatly breeding more    Just my personal opinion though ......

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succinctly put strike,i agree. :thumbsup: i also wonder if the breeders of these so called designer dogs know half as much about the dogs they are breeding as a dedicated pedigree breeder.can they give help,advice and knowlege based on years of dedicated breeding study?some things you just CANT buy

 

[kim & Tilly]

i hav no problem with inventors of new breeds ,,,,after all we wouldnt have the breeds we have now if it wasnt for people breeding new breeds say 100 years ago e.t.c,,,i.e greyhound x terrier = whippet

but having said that it would be nice if there was as use for the new breeds i.e hunting,, working,,or racing

if the breeder off new breeds has use for them then it,s a good thing in my book :thumbsup:   :thumbsup:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Yeah but not saying oh this is a very rare breed that will be £800 please :wacko:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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thats up to the people that are buying them,,,if they want to part with their cash,,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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I guess, but some people are taken in by these breeders :angry:

I suppose you need to do your reasearch, i did that for about a year before i got tilly

 

[luvlyjubly77]

Yeah but not saying oh this is a very rare breed that will be £800 please :wacko:

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I totally agree with you there, I do think that the price of some 'mongrels' is incredibly OTT (mine not included (w00t) )

But then again, some pedigree breeds like bulldogs can go for £800 plus, and they only live for approx. 8-9 years!

 

[OEH]

Personally I don't think such extreme outcrosses are a good idea. As many people on here know I have 3 lurchers and an Oxford degree in Biology, so I know the value of outcrossing, but only with a purpose in mind. In my opinion, while the whippet/cavalier COULD produce gorgeous pet dogs with a fantastic temperament, it could also produce disasters, they way genetics works you simply cannot be sure which features will be inherited from each parent. I think that until you have a line that breeds true (which in effect is a breed) you are going to produce some very strange and potentially undesirable puppies. I suspect that the tudor hound was either a line that bred true (so all puppies were 'good') or a very brief fashion.

I think that your puppy is gorgeous, but I would not advise purposefully breeding such crosses.

 

[natty]

Ok i saw the pic of your new puppy and shes cute , however i think id be hard pressed to find a puppy of any sort that wasnt cute . I have never had a mongrel or cross breed apart from a lurcher , theres no reason for this its just the way its turned out. I dont quite know how breeders justify the inflated prices that some puppies are sold for but then i guess if they can sell them its ok.

Deliberate cross breeds sold for inflated prices does bother me however and the reason is this: a cross breed puppy can take after either of its parents or have traits of both sometimes a puppy can have the best of both breeds but likewise it could also have the worst traits of each breed ,so unless the two parent breeds are similar in temperamnet and size how can a puppy buyer really know what they are getting? and if not knowing doesnt bother them why not give a home to one of the many hundreds of mongrel and crossbreed puppies in rescues?

Some breeds of dogs are prone to specific disorders ( i dont mean the disorders are unique to that one breed but that the breed may have a higher than normal rate of being affected) A good breeder will know what illnesses and defects are common in their breed and make efforts to eradicate them from their line ( by not breeding from affected stock ) . Good breeders go to great lengths to carefully match a stud and dam to get the best possible puppies.

With this fashion in crossbreeding i worry that it opens the flood gates to any person who happens to have two dogs of opposite sex to breed just to get money and the parents may not neccersarilly be health screened for the problems common in that breed. It takes effort to breed a good quality dog in any breed , one that fits the standard and is healthy. chucking the only 2 dogs available together is not the way its done. I wonder how many dogs that wouldnt be passed suitable for breeding pedigrees are going to be used to make mixes , as there wont be any neccersary paperwork in order to register puppies so the breeder can then sell cross breed puppies at the same price as pedigrees with out haveing put any effort in to ensure the puppies have the best chance of being fit and healthy.

 

[jok]

Personally i find it annoying that people cross two different breeds together, produce a mongrel, but give it a fancy name eg Puggle and suddenly they demand the same price as a proper pedigree dog - which, whatever way you look at it, it certainly isn't.

I can't believe people pay £300 plus for a mongrel. There's loads waiting for homes in rescue centres. £300 would be a massive donation for some small resuces.

I would also be concerned about what sort of health problems could be unearthed. We had a Cavalier when i was a child and it died at 7 from heart problems

 

[sharron]

Accidents happen but to go and breed two different breeds of dog is wrong. Like what has already been said before there are 100's if not 100.000's of cross breed dogs already looking for loving home so why add to this. :rant:

Also asking for alot of money for them is not just cruel and what happends to these dogs if they are not brought.

Yes insurance is cheaper. But i also know of many cross breeds at our park and at the dog club i go to that the most domanant breeds trat is for most, Making them a danger to others because thay look like a collie (for example) but as the trat of a GSD.

i'v also heard of a person whom was getting a labradoole but the coat of of a lab, refused to buy it.

Just because you like two breeds of dog does not make it acceptble.

Anyone know of a whippet+rottie ( i know of a rottie+lurcher) :- "

 

[masta]

i think its a bit high and mighty to imply that anyone breeding these dogs are throwing them together willy nilly i'm sure there will just as much thought going into their breeding as some pure breds, lets face it why have cavaliers got heart problems? should not all of the implied "proper breeders" have eradicated the trait by now or is it that they are still being bred with certain health problems because of line protection? ie the show ring why is it always how much a pup cost that seems to upset everyone if a breeder believes they are worth that amount is that not their perogative to charge it

as for the term mongrel all of our dogs ancestors were mongrels once, if i could get the bet i would be backing a weeks wage on a labradoodle class at crufts in 10 years time i think the fact that they are charging these prices and selling ( iv'e not seen any ads for designer crosses going"cheap") them says something

 

[BeeJay]

An article from the US re Puggles.

New York Up Close

Huggable, but Only for a While

MICHAEL Y. PARK

Published: May 7, 2006

LAST summer it was the darling of the doggie-as-accessory set.

The puggle, an undeniably cute cross between a pug and a beagle, was everywhere. Jake Gyllenhaal's puggle companion, Boo Radley, was soon joined by other celebrity puggles, including those belonging to Julianne Moore, James Gandolfini and Uma Thurman. They began to fetch more than $1,500 apiece, and you couldn't go anywhere on the Upper East Side or in Park Slope without seeing one of the pint-size pups.

Now puggle fatigue has set in. Trainers are seeing more pleas for advice on common puggle problems, particularly excess energy and a resistance to housebreaking. Veterinarians are dealing with their medical problems, some genetic in nature. And some owners are wondering why the sweet-looking puppies they fell for during the summer of puggle love have turned into little demons.

Siri Worthington, a 25-year-old Brooklyn College student who lives in Williamsburg, discovered the dark side of puggle ownership when she adopted Henry, a 10-month-old female, from a couple who lived in her building (they had paid $1,000 for her at Puppy Paradise in Mill Basin, Brooklyn). Ms. Worthington had been taking care of the dog when the couple were at work, so she thought she knew what she was getting into. Nevertheless, one month later, she is considering giving Henry up.

"I call her 'Hell on Paws,' " Ms. Worthington said. "She'll go berserker wild. Henry is spring-loaded; she's literally bouncing up and down like 'boing, boing.' "

Henry tears apart furniture and roughhouses aggressively with Ms. Worthington's other dog, an ailing 11-year-old mutt. And housebreaking the puggle has been impossible. "The other night, while I was in bed, she peed right on me, right on my down comforter," Ms. Worthington said.

Henry's behavior does not seem to be unique.

"What people love is also what they find frustrating," said Andrea Arden, a dog trainer who lives in Red Hook, Brooklyn, and has two schools in Manhattan. "These are very busy, very energetic dogs. They're fun-loving and they're interested in people, but they also tend to be busy with their noses and pushy with other dogs."

Puggles also present medical problems. Dr. Jessica Waldman, a veterinarian who recently moved to Los Angeles from the Upper East Side of Manhattan, said that many of her puggle patients had the breathing problems typical of pugs, and some also had neurological diseases associated with pugs.

Because puggles are so popular, puppy mills have been producing them with little attention to breeding standards, Dr. Waldman and Ms. Arden say.

"It's like the trends with Dalmatians, Rottweilers or Akitas, when they were just churning them out," Ms. Arden said. "We're seeing more puggles that are less attractive, and puggles that are huge, a lot bigger than puggles are supposed to be."

Ms. Worthington hasn't yet decided Henry's fate but says she feels that when it comes to puggles, the owners are the ones on a leash.

"Puggles need 110 percent of your time," she said. As for Henry, she added, "I hate to say it, but she takes all the fun out of owning a dog." MICHAEL Y. PARK

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