Whippet with upset tummy.

[LillyBlue]

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It does sound though it is all the c**p she is scavenging for on walks doesn't it? I have had dogs ill from eating mushrooms and I am sure that I read that conkers are not good for dogs either. You would think that just holding them would not hurt but if her tongue is touching them she will get some of it in her system. My old Whippet used to peel road kill off the road as we walked along. She never had tummy trouble and she suffered from Addisons Disease which pre disposes them to upset guts. They are all different.

If you are able to watch her all the time then teaching her a good "leave it" command would help. Take a look at Kiko Pup on YouTube for tips on how to train it.

I think on this occasion it is. We've been teaching leave it and even gone to classes to try to help. We've got to the point when she's amazing at it at home inside but we can't get her to relate it to things on a walk. I can even put a treat on each paw and say leave it and she will. She came top in the class at walking past a lot of different things and not going to them ( I mainly think because she was more interesting in trying to playing with the other dogs though). I'll have a look at the YouTube clip and for a bit I think I'll let her run around to burn of energy for a bit then pop her back on the lead again until I get more control over it. Do dogs not learn what's good to eat and what's not?

Thank you for your reply.

 

[gypsysmum2]

Sorry, no, they never associate being sick or ill with what they have eaten. We learn, by being told as children, why we have been sick.

The next stage of the "leave it" command, once they understand the basics of "take your nose off that and you will get something better", is to "generalise" it. First you teach it in controlled situations like halls and homes and gardens and then you move to more challenging places. Choose somewhere easy at first and use a boring piece of food or toy for the lure. Use a fantastic reward for when she responds to the leave it command. Gradually make the forbidden item more alluring but make sure she is never able to actually get it. Put it in a bowl with perforated cling film over it so that she can smell it but not grab it and keep the lead just short enough at first.

It might be worth your while paying for an hour's home tuition with an APDT trainer on just that one "leave it" subject.

If I remember it rightly, the KikoPup video has the dog leaving a steaming bowl of spaghetti, placed on the floor, while the owner leaves the room!

 

[LillyBlue]

Sorry, no, they never associate being sick or ill with what they have eaten. We learn, by being told as children, why we have been sick.

The next stage of the "leave it" command, once they understand the basics of "take your nose off that and you will get something better", is to "generalise" it. First you teach it in controlled situations like halls and homes and gardens and then you move to more challenging places. Choose somewhere easy at first and use a boring piece of food or toy for the lure. Use a fantastic reward for when she responds to the leave it command. Gradually make the forbidden item more alluring but make sure she is never able to actually get it. Put it in a bowl with perforated cling film over it so that she can smell it but not grab it and keep the lead just short enough at first.

It might be worth your while paying for an hour's home tuition with an APDT trainer on just that one "leave it" subject.

If I remember it rightly, the KikoPup video has the dog leaving a steaming bowl of spaghetti, placed on the floor, while the owner leaves the room!

Thank you, this is great.

Lilly has just been ill again! She was ok first thing and lunchtime but back to diarrhea. Should I go to the vets? She ate a soft stick at lunchtime. I managed to get her to drop a couple but she ran off with one. She's been ill on and off for 3 days now. She's ate sticked in the past and been ok.

 

[LillyBlue]

Thank you, this is great.

Lilly has just been ill again! She was ok first thing and lunchtime but back to diarrhea. Should I go to the vets? She ate a soft stick at lunchtime. I managed to get her to drop a couple but she ran off with one. She's been ill on and off for 3 days now. She's ate sticked in the past and been ok.

I've called the vets, she's ill again. I feel this is the start of another sleepless night. They've said put her back on the pills and take her in at 5pm tomorrow. I'll let you know what they say. I'm guessing not much that I don't already know.

 

[gypsysmum2]

Do tell them about the stick even if it seems like the same problem as before.

Have you had the "referral to a specialist" conversation with them? Do you see the same vet each time you go? There is a possibility that they think it is something that you are doing, against their advice, and so they are not taking you seriously. For instance if they have told you not to feed xyz and they think that you are feeding it they will not take you seriously. They see people all the time whose dogs have fleas etc and who will not treat the dog, the house etc and just keep coming back time and again with flea allergy dermatitis. You need to stamp your feet, ask to see a senior vet every time you go and try, between you, to get to the bottom of the problem. Listen to the vet and to the opinion that they have as to the cause. Ask them why it keeps re occurring. You may find that they think that you are not following orders and so have dismissed you as "neurotic" or "cranky". Your dog can not tell them what is wrong and so you must fight her corner.

I so feel for you and your poor dog. 

 

[LillyBlue]

Do tell them about the stick even if it seems like the same problem as before.

Have you had the "referral to a specialist" conversation with them? Do you see the same vet each time you go? There is a possibility that they think it is something that you are doing, against their advice, and so they are not taking you seriously. For instance if they have told you not to feed xyz and they think that you are feeding it they will not take you seriously. They see people all the time whose dogs have fleas etc and who will not treat the dog, the house etc and just keep coming back time and again with flea allergy dermatitis. You need to stamp your feet, ask to see a senior vet every time you go and try, between you, to get to the bottom of the problem. Listen to the vet and to the opinion that they have as to the cause. Ask them why it keeps re occurring. You may find that they think that you are not following orders and so have dismissed you as "neurotic" or "cranky". Your dog can not tell them what is wrong and so you must fight her corner.

I so feel for you and your poor dog. 

Thank you. I'll try and get them to do something other than dish out more pills. I've seen the same vet the last few times. He keeps saying it could be anything. I'll see if he thinks a specilist is an option. He doesn't seem to worry much as she's fit and healthy and not being sick, but it can't be normal for her to be this ill all the time can it? I also think that once she has an upset tummy it's hard for her to get better. She never seems to get over it and back to normal on her own without the pills. I'll let you know how we get on. I looked at getting a muzzle today. It may be we have to do that just to rule out things being eaten on walks.

 

[dogmatize]

I agree with gypsysmum. I think you should ask for a referral to a specialist. It seems you are both going round in circles and I think if you could get a better diagnosis you would then have a chance of treating lily more effectively.

 

[LillyBlue]

I agree with gypsysmum. I think you should ask for a referral to a specialist. It seems you are both going round in circles and I think if you could get a better diagnosis you would then have a chance of treating lily more effectively.

It does feel like we're going around in circles. She was ill 7 times! last episode at 9.45pm but thankfully that was it and we both got some sleep. Her more than me as I was listening out for her incase she wanted to go out. I'll let you know how I get on with the vet.

 

[dogmatize]

I forgot to ask if you've tried Diarstop. I find it invaluable.

 

[LillyBlue]

I forgot to ask if you've tried Diarstop. I find it invaluable.

No! I've not heard of it before. It sounds great. I'll deffinately get some.

Thank you.

 

[LillyBlue]

My trip to the vets was a bit stressfull. Lilly is absolutely petrified of the vets after a bad experience when having her jabs. I hate seeing her like that. He's doing some more blood work and depending on the results he's going to change her diet. It may be she's lacking vitamin B12 which should show up from the test. He said we could do a gut biopsy but it's invasive and not without complications if where they take the sample doesn't heal. Also said it would only tell them if something was wrong and not what is causing it. I didn't like the sound of that. She's back on the pills for now because they seem to work. He's also suggested as an option, that because they do work may be we could consider giving her half a pill a day all the time and see if that does anything. I'm assuming the idea is if it's a bacteria than that would keep it from coming back. The good news is she's not losing weight so she is getting what she needs from food. I'm also going to get a muzzle and step up the 'leave it' trainng to try and stop the scavenging on walks. Plus buy some Diarstop. I'll let you know how it all goes. Thank you again for your support.

 

[gypsysmum2]

What are the pills?

Sounds like he is thinking outside the box

Re phobia of the vet - it will take a long time but it is possible to help dogs over this. It involves -

Driving to the vet's car park and turning round and leaving. Do this until the dog is relaxed about arriving at the car park.

Drive to the vet's and get out of the car but get straight back in and drive away. Do this until the dog is relaxed about getting out of the car.

Drive to the vet's and go to the door. Turn away and get back in the car.

Enter the waiting room, go home again.

Sit and wait in the waiting room. Go home again.

Ask if you can just pop in to a consulting room when no surgery taking place.

All through the process keep your body language and voice "normal" and even upbeat. Feed treats if you can or play toys if she will.

You get the picture. The idea is to stop the anxiety of being treated rising to a level where no learning can take place. Anxiety prevents learning and Lilley cannot learn that the vet visits are ok while she is anxious. Most vets are fine with this behaviour because they want to examine a calm dog so the more you can do to facilitate this the better it will be for everyone in the long term.

Hope you get some answers from the latest tests.

 

[LillyBlue]

What are the pills?

Sounds like he is thinking outside the box

Re phobia of the vet - it will take a long time but it is possible to help dogs over this. It involves -

Driving to the vet's car park and turning round and leaving. Do this until the dog is relaxed about arriving at the car park.

Drive to the vet's and get out of the car but get straight back in and drive away. Do this until the dog is relaxed about getting out of the car.

Drive to the vet's and go to the door. Turn away and get back in the car.

Enter the waiting room, go home again.

Sit and wait in the waiting room. Go home again.

Ask if you can just pop in to a consulting room when no surgery taking place.

All through the process keep your body language and voice "normal" and even upbeat. Feed treats if you can or play toys if she will.

You get the picture. The idea is to stop the anxiety of being treated rising to a level where no learning can take place. Anxiety prevents learning and Lilley cannot learn that the vet visits are ok while she is anxious. Most vets are fine with this behaviour because they want to examine a calm dog so the more you can do to facilitate this the better it will be for everyone in the long term.

Hope you get some answers from the latest tests.

Thank you. I'll work on that. I'd rather she was happy to go there.

 

[LillyBlue]

Hello, Lilly's test results are back. Her B12 is normal and so is her Pancreas. He said it picked up something being low in her small intestines, I thought he said solate but not sure what that is. He suggests changing her diet to Purina HA see if that helps, if not then we may have to have the endoscopic gut biopsy. She's well at the min but she's still on the antibiotics. I'll keep you posted.

 

[JoanneF]

@excusemeis our diet guru, maybe she will have a view on the diet?

 

[excuseme]

LillyBlue, have you ever considered changing to a completely raw meat and bone diet ?

This is a very natural diet for our dogs and their digestive systems, many tummy problems are overcome by changing to this natural method

.

 

[gypsysmum2]

Has Lily had pro biotics? Her gut bio diversity could be completely out of kilter with all the problems she has had. The vet will stock them and she may need a higher than normal dose? Us humans are now being told that most of our problems are caused by lack of proper balance in our gut flora.

Think about excuseme's suggestion. Even if you only tried it for a while. Do be prepared for your vet to be resistant. If he is then ask him to explain his reasons and then consider if it is right for Lily.

 

[LillyBlue]

Thank you all for your advice. Lilly will be having her last antibiotic tomorrow so I plan to give her a probiotic this time and see if that helps.

I don't think we're going to go for the Purina. We can't see it beening any different from the food she's on at the min, plus it's very expensive, and doesn't seem to come as wet food. (She doesn't like eating dry food).

I think our thoughts at the min are... We know she can be well on the Royal Canin Gastro Intestinal food. (I've managed with gypsymum2's helpful advice to be able to get her to eat it without any extra mince). I think the problem lies with the scavenging on walks, once her tummy is upset it finds it hard to get back to normal. Before changing her to a raw diet we want to try stopping her from eating anything on walks so we can rule it out. We will prob have to get a muzzle but hopefully in the long term to train her to leave it. We've been working on it and I believe we could get there... but not that quickly. I'd like to try using the Diastop also when she next gets ill to see if that works. If I change her food now I'll not know if she's ill from the change of food or because of something she's eaten on a walk. Does that make sense?

I say this now but I'm sure if I'm up on Saturday night with an ill dog I'll be at the pet shop buying raw food. Ha ha

I'll let you know how I get on.

Thank you all again for your help and support.

 

[gypsysmum2]

Yes, always one change at a time

 

[LillyBlue]

Dear All, I thought you might like an update. At the min Lilly has been well for a month! We had one day last week when we thought it had returned, but I gave her Logicfirm which did the trick! We've kept her on the Royal Canin Gastro Intestinal wet food but added in Pro-fibre pellets which is a digestible fibre and probiotic. So fingers crossed she stays health. I hope all is well with you all and your dogs. When I tried to get the site up the other day and couldn't I thought I'd lost you! I'm glad you're still here. Thank you for being there for us.