Border Union

[Cartman]

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In respect to my last post. Re; Judge & Entry. It was not intended to come out in a manner of which it may be taken to degrade any person. It was more in the light of the "fact" that some judges like a dog of a certain type. In this it should be taken that not everyone will put up the same type of whippet. Some are finer & some are much heavier, just as an example. Movement can also play a great part as well.

The comment was intended to refer to the fact that not everyone will benifit under any one judge. So the entry may reflect some types of whippets not being entered.

As for the remark to the other judge from SA. That judge had a total different line up in each class, & a different list of winners. But the question was " did she do a better job?". & the answer is with what each judge had they both did. I will admitt that putting up a puppy took guts.

 

[Karen]

I like a judge who seems to do the same sort of thing each time they judge, it says to me this person knows what they like and will find it IF they can even if its not what I would do!.

At the weekend I think there was one class where the judge had nothing that she was looking for and put up a dog that has good movement but was heavier all through.

I have seen most of the entry looking much better than at the weekend. All had summer coats and there was a very cold north easterly wind and squally showers. For this show the entry was quite good and there was some fairly big winners.

I would say again that IMO this judge likes a more elegant dog. IMO she is correct, some of the dogs over the last few years are getting heavier and beefier looking. Wide fronts, wide skulls, no underline, massive back ends going away from you. Keyhole rear movement, Yuk, great big wide apart thighs then the hocks quite close. :x The standard says 'a balanced combination of strength and elegance' are we slipping too far one way?

As Cartman says you can only do what you have on the day but in my opinion the judge did better job than lots of others this year. I really like the DCC but not sure I would have given him the ticket myself, but I wasnt in the middle

 

[dessie]

Dessie did you come through those heavy showers on the way home (w00t)   :sweating:

Certainly did!! :b

I have to agree with Karen, the ring was awful and a lot of the dogs were affected by the weather. My poor TJ was absolutely frozen and to cap it all I was just about to take him into the ring and a bloody Ridgeback bitch flew at him. His first show with me and it was really pants for him.

 

[aslan]

If there's no difference then what's with you????? o

Thanks Vanna. There is nothing with me all our dogs are registered with "The Kennel Club" covering all the of the United Kingdom.

Martine - in the first instance you were a bit hasty to assume that Whipowill WOULD/SHOULD know the difference - she asked the question because she honestly wanted to know what the difference was. She was not trying to be antagonistic, which you, by your first retort, appeared to think she was. You need to go easy on a few of us Aussies (and others from different parts of the world on this board) - we can't all be expected to know everything about the UK system, and don't think that because it is the UK that everybody does/should know about it. We ask questions because we are trying to learn - don't just assume that we are attempting to be smart-arses.

Millie can you tell us the names of the dogs in the pics?

 

[BeeJay]

It's been my experience that most people not from the UK if not ALL people use Eng Ch as the title in dogs pedigrees. Not sure if this is because the pedigree software that they use uses Eng Ch or because thats what they type in. Of course coming from the UK I use Ch. Yet the US folks call theirs Am Ch and the Aussies use Aus Ch etc etc.

It's a bit like the UK Kennel Club calling themselves The Kennel Club. Or should I write THE Kennel Club. All a bit arrogant and thoughtless.

I was born in England, I live in Wales and am British but also a UK citizen. If a dog is made up entirely from CC's awarded in Scotland why should it be known as an English Champion. Surely it's a Scottish Champion or to put it another way a UK Champion.

However nobody would label that dog a UK champion. Outside of the UK they are known as Eng Ch and inside simply as Ch. Hence dogs being labelled an Aus Ch & Ch. Back to the arrogance again. :- "

 

[Martine]

If there's no difference then what's with you????? o

Thanks Vanna. There is nothing with me all our dogs are registered with "The Kennel Club" covering all the of the United Kingdom.

Martine - in the first instance you were a bit hasty to assume that Whipowill WOULD/SHOULD know the difference - she asked the question because she honestly wanted to know what the difference was. She was not trying to be antagonistic, which you, by your first retort, appeared to think she was. You need to go easy on a few of us Aussies (and others from different parts of the world on this board) - we can't all be expected to know everything about the UK system, and don't think that because it is the UK that everybody does/should know about it. We ask questions because we are trying to learn - don't just assume that we are attempting to be smart-arses.

Millie can you tell us the names of the dogs in the pics?

WOW who's being antagonistic?

I only answered the question "whats with you "with the reply "there is nothing with me". I am new to the board and have not untill recently posted many messages so really don't know the locaton of the various people who do post regularly. The person I aswered could have been my next door neighbour for all I know and I had no intention of being antagonistic or thought the person asking was being antagonistic. Indeed I took it to be that persons knew about the topic and was being funny!!!!! I never have and never will assume some one is a smart #### just because they are wanting to learn. I don't expect everyone to know everything about anything and I certainly did not think my reply would bring this respose. I think I know now why I don't post regularly.

 

[whipowill]

Boy are we along way off topic on this thread....... :- "

I think our cultural sense of humours :clown: may have gotten tangled up over the Eng/Brit Ch discussion. Hope Martine won't give up posting over it.

 

[Cartman]

I like a judge who seems to do the same sort of thing each time they judge, it says to me this person knows what they like and will find it IF they can even if its not what I would do!.

That says it all. If a judge breeds & shows a whippet of what you may not like, but that is what they have always done. Then "we" as exhibitors should expect that person to do the same in the ring.

 

[Cartman]

Boy are we along way off topic on this thread....... :- "
I think our cultural sense of humours    :clown:     may have gotten tangled up over the Eng/Brit Ch discussion.  Hope Martine won't give up posting over it.

I think our cultural sense of humours, may of also be getting in thw way of other dog related topics.

 

[Martine]

Going to put my head on the chopping block here- but am a long way from the action so will hopefully be safe- I know pics can lie- but some of the dogs are a little disappointing aren't they?

Yes pics do lie. There was some very nice mature dogs and yes there were some who would disapoint a few people but overall the dogs were good. I think the entry was not as big as at some shows. The WCoS had more whippets entered the week before . I did wonder if the judge was trying to tell the other dog exhibitors in the line up something by giving the CC to a very young puppy who I'm led to believe still needs 3 cc to become a Champion. This one seemingly will not count towards his title because of his age. Can some one more knowledgable than me let us know what the Kennel Club Regulations are on this.

Whipowill I won't give up posting just yet.

 

[whipowill]

I like a judge who seems to do the same sort of thing each time they judge, it says to me this person knows what they like and will find it IF they can even if its not what I would do!.

That says it all. If a judge breeds & shows a whippet of what you may not like, but that is what they have always done. Then "we" as exhibitors should expect that person to do the same in the ring.

Karen, this works provided that "their type" is in a class. Can't put up what ain't there.

I agree Cartman. If you don't like the kind of dogs owned & exhibited by a judge then it makes sense not exhibit under them because you would expect them to put up a similar style and perhaps related dog.

 

[dawn]

To make up a Champion in the UK a dog must win 3CC's under 3 different judges.

A dog must win at least ONE CC aged more than 12 months.

So if a dog won 3CC's under 12 months they are not able to be called a Ch. However if they win another CC at 12months and 1 day they are entitled to use tehir title.

 

[whipowill]

To make up a Champion in the UK a dog must win 3CC's under 3 different judges.A dog must win at least ONE CC aged more than 12 months.

So if a dog won 3CC's under 12 months they are not able to be called a Ch. However if they win another CC at 12months and 1 day they are entitled to use tehir title.

We have a similar but different ruling in Australia. We need more CC's than you, minimum of 4, because ours is based on a points total. The dog need 100 points, but the most you can aquire at one time is 25. Also must have a CC after 12 months.

But I do appreciate that we don't very often have the entry numbers that approach those in the UK. Hence my earlier comment that champion made up in the UK is afforded a high degree of respect because of the sheer weight of exhibits that it has had to beat to gain that title.

 

[Karen]

this person knows what they like and will find it IF they can even if its not what I would do!.
Karen,  this works provided that "their type" is in a class.  Can't put up what ain't there.

I agree Cartman.  If you don't like the kind of dogs owned & exhibited by a judge then it makes sense not exhibit under them because you would expect them to put up a similar style and perhaps related dog.

Yes, I did say IF they can find it.

Our judge for this show comes from a family and OTHER members of her family would be looking for a slightly different dog IMO.

Perhaps exhibitors THINK she is going to judge according to what her family have, so this lessens the entry somewhat?

This of course is not to say the rest of her family have the wrong sort, just slightly differing from her ideal IMO

 

[whipowill]

Sorry Karen, so you did (say IF).

 

[Cartman]

I agree Cartman.  If you don't like the kind of dogs owned & exhibited by a judge then it makes sense not exhibit under them because you would expect them to put up a similar style and perhaps related dog.

True. But how many times have you as an exhibitor, seen a judge put up a totally diferent type. Even if their own type was there. In Australia we see this often.

The Meakins, J. Baudin, Phill M-H. are examples of people that put up whippets that look like their own. Good judging.

Won't mention some, but there are some that leaves you wondering why you travelled the miles.

Years ago I went to Sydney from the bush. 600 miles return. To show under someone that had some very typie & same breeding as mine. Could not get placed. Oh well another show. But I still wonder how type was lost.........

Another thing I HATE is, a judge that comes here, & puts up one kennel & goes home with one from there. Next time they are here, another kennel wins, & takes home one from there........total change of type too.

 

[Karen]

Someone stood next to me at one of the classes and said of the winner 'Why has she put that up, hes nothing like the rest'

The class was small and he was the best dog in it regardless of type. I dont think people think enough when they watch others judging, they to often make assumptions on personal results.

 

[whipowill]

Someone stood next to me at one of the classes and said of the winner 'Why has she put that up, hes nothing like the rest'
The class was small and he was the best dog in it regardless of type.  I dont think people think enough when they watch others judging, they to often make assumptions on personal results.

Can I be so bold as to assume that the person who made the comment wasn't a judge themselves? :unsure:

 

[Cartman]

Someone stood next to me at one of the classes and said of the winner 'Why has she put that up, hes nothing like the rest'
The class was small and he was the best dog in it regardless of type.  I dont think people think enough when they watch others judging, they to often make assumptions on personal results.

Makes you wonder what the rest were like.

 

[whipowill]

I agree Cartman.  If you don't like the kind of dogs owned & exhibited by a judge then it makes sense not exhibit under them because you would expect them to put up a similar style and perhaps related dog.

True. But how many times have you as an exhibitor, seen a judge put up a totally diferent type. Even if their own type was there. In Australia we see this often.

The Meakins, J. Baudin, Phill M-H. are examples of people that put up whippets that look like their own. Good judging.

Won't mention some, but there are some that leaves you wondering why you travelled the miles.

Years ago I went to Sydney from the bush. 600 miles return. To show under someone that had some very typie & same breeding as mine. Could not get placed. Oh well another show. But I still wonder how type was lost.........

Another thing I HATE is, a judge that comes here, & puts up one kennel & goes home with one from there. Next time they are here, another kennel wins, & takes home one from there........total change of type too.

I have seen that happen to, more in whippets than my "other"breed. Very confusing and as I'm still on a learning curve about whippet judging at the moment it doesn't help one bit!!!!! (w00t)