Cesar Millan

[wilfred]

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Sorry, I'm NOT a fan of this man and his methods for the same reasons Annie (themetalchicken), FeeFee, TTT and others mention.

 

[Sadie]

Without a doubt Cesar loves the canine creation and has an affinity with them. His methods may seem odd at times but it gives hope to people. I see the people change just as much as the dogs! Doesn't Cesar say it's not the dogs but the owners who need to learn?

Thanks for sharing everyone. It's given me lots to think over. :thumbsup:

Hannah x

it's a shame that in the programs and also during these sort of discussions, that more time is given to his "rehabilitation" of dominant and or aggressive dogs, i suppose it just makes more of an impact :unsure:
i do so wish more time would be given to his "rehabilitation" of fearful, nervous, and traumatised dogs, this i feel is where his ability to understand a dog really shines through

 

[dabroad]

Cesar is amazing i don't care what anybody says about him i use his techniques and they work every time! Just so you know he owns an italian greyhound becoz i see it frequently in his programmes sitting on his lap!

If anybody watched a real life wolf pack or even a demesticated dog pack you will see how they act around each other cesar creates this through using dog "language" One comment was about "Re. has he had a whippet, I have no idea, but the thought that anyone would find it necessary to alpha roll a whippet abhors me"

A whippet is a dog the same as every other breed. It bites it barks and it can attack! it is a dog none the less wether there shy or more timid then other breeds. Whippets act the same as every other dog and so should be treated the same. I pin mine down when mine are out of line and it works. My bitch used to be protective over pigs ears. She's not anymore! I don't scare her as her tail isn't in between her legs i's neutral and she respects me! Pinning a dog down by it's neck does not harm a dog. If you watch a mum and her babies ... what does she do when they are out of line or naughty. She scruffs them and pins them down ...as does a alfa wolf. It's just about reading your dogs body language and understanding there ways of life. I try my best and so far my dog are a happy complete pack! I hope cesar works for you sadie! xxx :thumbsup:

 

[Esthermax]

Cesar is amazing i don't care what anybody says about him i use his techniques and they work every time! Just so you know he owns an italian greyhound becoz i see it frequently in his programmes sitting on his lap!If anybody watched a real life wolf pack or even a demesticated dog pack you will see how they act around each other cesar creates this through using dog "language" One comment was about "Re. has he had a whippet, I have no idea, but the thought that anyone would find it necessary to alpha roll a whippet abhors me"

A whippet is a dog the same as every other breed. It bites it barks and it can attack! it is a dog none the less wether there shy or more timid then other breeds. Whippets act the same as every other dog and so should be treated the same. I pin mine down when mine are out of line and it works. My bitch used to be protective over pigs ears. She's not anymore! I don't scare her as her tail isn't in between her legs i's neutral and she respects me! Pinning a dog down by it's neck does not harm a dog. If you watch a mum and her babies ... what does she do when they are out of line or naughty. She scruffs them and pins them down ...as does a alfa wolf. It's just about reading your dogs body language and understanding there ways of life. I try my best and so far my dog are a happy complete pack! I hope cesar works for you sadie! xxx :thumbsup:

What a good post & i totaly agree :thumbsup: ........... i always feel sorry for the dogs when they have to leave him & go home (w00t)

 

[peppermint lady]

Cesar is amazing i don't care what anybody says about him i use his techniques and they work every time! Just so you know he owns an italian greyhound becoz i see it frequently in his programmes sitting on his lap!If anybody watched a real life wolf pack or even a demesticated dog pack you will see how they act around each other cesar creates this through using dog "language" One comment was about "Re. has he had a whippet, I have no idea, but the thought that anyone would find it necessary to alpha roll a whippet abhors me"

A whippet is a dog the same as every other breed. It bites it barks and it can attack! it is a dog none the less wether there shy or more timid then other breeds. Whippets act the same as every other dog and so should be treated the same. I pin mine down when mine are out of line and it works. My bitch used to be protective over pigs ears. She's not anymore! I don't scare her as her tail isn't in between her legs i's neutral and she respects me! Pinning a dog down by it's neck does not harm a dog. If you watch a mum and her babies ... what does she do when they are out of line or naughty. She scruffs them and pins them down ...as does a alfa wolf. It's just about reading your dogs body language and understanding there ways of life. I try my best and so far my dog are a happy complete pack! I hope cesar works for you sadie! xxx :thumbsup:

100% agree with everything you say :thumbsup:

i started the "pin down" bit with my girl Smudge, before she would attack my other dogs as soon as look at them and would think notheing of growling at myself or my daughter, i just wished id of started it sooner as she is a different dog theses days, and a happier one.

 

[FeeFee]

I can only say that over 30 years of taking in rescue dogs, many of them with issues of various kinds when they arrived, I have never once needed to use physical force to sort out a problem, it's simply not necessary, there are always better ways to tackle things.

As a rescue we collectively sigh and roll our eyes when potential adopters talk enthusiastically about Cesar Millan, and try to gently steer people towards trainers who's insight into dogs is based on reality and not made-up psychobabble. If you want to 'think dog' read Ian Dunbar's excellent book with that title.

More seriously, one of our dogs could very easily have lost his life because his owner (a huge Cesar fan) insisted he was 'dominant' and used CM methods to correct his behaviour against all our advice. He had issues with visitors leaving the house, and would growl and lunge at them. Knowing his past it was very easy to understand this behaviour and see that it was linked to anxiety, but his owner wouldn't listen and went her own way resulting in him eventually biting someone badly.

At that point we took him straight back into our care and into a very sensible foster home where they have had no problems at all with him, when people leave they either pop him out of the room or distract him with a biscuit :-

 

[dabroad]

it's all about the person me thinks! If the person isn't doing the technique correctly or hasn't the enegry needed then it's not going to work! Just because someone's a huge fan of cesar doesn't mean they know how to perform the techniques correctly or with the right energy. I believe a dog knows if you know what your doing or not! And i also believe there not stupid! They sence every little emotion in you! the slightest hesitation or fear could result in the tables turning! I handle my dogs with caution and sometimes hesitation but in my mind i know that no matter the out come i will win! i think they sence it and know if they can win or not! I'm no expert by all means but i like to feel i have gained my dogs respect and trust no matter what way we do it! xxxx

 

[Whippets Rule]

I have to say I am somewhat incredulous that anyone would think rolling a dog is a good way of training it to behave in a certain way, all it does is teach the dog to be very careful around it's owner as the owner is clearly demonstrating unpredictability...why roll an animal and force it into submission, why not use the extra energy you have to spend proper time teaching a dog what you expect of it in a positive manner.

If I had to resort to punishing my dog in order to make it understand me, I would not own a dog and in my opinion it is stupid and lazy to use this type of forced cooperation when it is easy enough to teach a dog through positive means, it just takes a bit of time and commitment. It's simple enough to be firm with a dog and gain its respect without rolling it on its back but I guess for some people that makes them feel big and in control.

I've said my bit and I'll stay out of this now because the ignorance and stupidity of some dog owners makes my blood boil... a dog is not a human and cannot reason in the way a human can but hey it's your dog so you think that gives you the right to force it into submission...

and to say that the slightest hesitation and the tables could be turned...ha ha ha ha bloody hilarious, its a whippet not a ruddy lion.. :clown: :clown: :clown:

 

[dabroad]

Dogs don't reason..... they act! simples!

 

[dabroad]

Dogs don't reason..... they act! simples!

You just wouldn't ever see a wild dog or a pet dog saying to one another "Now you do that again and your going to be put in your crate or ignored" hahahaha They pin each other down by the throat and they growl they donot reason! I'm not agressive with my dogs and they follow me everywhere! You are right there not human ...there dogs so do it there way not our way! :thumbsup: Oh and no need to paint an ugly picture of how im handling my dogs! Your opinion is fine but in reality is not what i do. They arn't afriad of me and adore me so i must be doing something right! :thumbsup: x

 

[FeeFee]

it's all about the person me thinks! If the person isn't doing the technique correctly or hasn't the enegry needed then it's not going to work! Just because someone's a huge fan of cesar doesn't mean they know how to perform the techniques correctly or with the right energy. I believe a dog knows if you know what your doing or not! And i also believe there not stupid! They sence every little emotion in you! the slightest hesitation or fear could result in the tables turning! I handle my dogs with caution and sometimes hesitation but in my mind i know that no matter the out come i will win! i think they sence it and know if they can win or not! I'm no expert by all means but i like to feel i have gained my dogs respect and trust no matter what way we do it! xxxx

I'm afraid this just reinforces all my reservations about CM.

Firstly, yes he causes loads of problems because he appeals particularly to people who don't know much about 'real' dog training and who get things very badly wrong.

Secondly he so often presents a relationship with a dog as a 'battle' that needs to be 'won'. What the heck is that all about? I work with my dogs, I don't fight them. As it happens, I'm the one in the relationship with the brains (possibly :lol: ) and I can use them to work round things and find ways to change behaviours I don't want with patience and training without jabbing, kicking, strangling, pinning or scruffing my dogs. Simples.

 

[~Annie~]

it's all about the person me thinks! If the person isn't doing the technique correctly or hasn't the enegry needed then it's not going to work! Just because someone's a huge fan of cesar doesn't mean they know how to perform the techniques correctly or with the right energy. I believe a dog knows if you know what your doing or not! And i also believe there not stupid! They sence every little emotion in you! the slightest hesitation or fear could result in the tables turning! I handle my dogs with caution and sometimes hesitation but in my mind i know that no matter the out come i will win! i think they sence it and know if they can win or not! I'm no expert by all means but i like to feel i have gained my dogs respect and trust no matter what way we do it! xxxx

I'm afraid this just reinforces all my reservations about CM.

Firstly, yes he causes loads of problems because he appeals particularly to people who don't know much about 'real' dog training and who get things very badly wrong.

Secondly he so often presents a relationship with a dog as a 'battle' that needs to be 'won'. What the heck is that all about? I work with my dogs, I don't fight them. As it happens, I'm the one in the relationship with the brains (possibly :lol: ) and I can use them to work round things and find ways to change behaviours I don't want with patience and training without jabbing, kicking, strangling, pinning or scruffing my dogs. Simples.

Here here :thumbsup:

Dabroad, yes dogs do growl and pin each other by the throat, they also eat dog food out of bowls on the floor, sniff and lick each others bums and delight in rolling in fox poo, do you? I'm fairly certain that your dogs know you are not a dog and will be confused if you try to behave like one.

 

[peppermint lady]

Dogs don't reason..... they act! simples!

You just wouldn't ever see a wild dog or a pet dog saying to one another "Now you do that again and your going to be put in your crate or ignored" hahahaha They pin each other down by the throat and they growl they donot reason! I'm not agressive with my dogs and they follow me everywhere! You are right there not human ...there dogs so do it there way not our way! :thumbsup: Oh and no need to paint an ugly picture of how im handling my dogs! Your opinion is fine but in reality is not what i do. They arn't afriad of me and adore me so i must be doing something right! :thumbsup: x

:thumbsup:

 

[peppermint lady]

its not done any of mine any harm...if fact people who have been here and mixed with my dogs have always said good things about them and in the word of a fellow K9'er last year....she said "what a balanced pack you have"

 

[meeka123]

it's all about the person me thinks! If the person isn't doing the technique correctly or hasn't the enegry needed then it's not going to work! Just because someone's a huge fan of cesar doesn't mean they know how to perform the techniques correctly or with the right energy. I believe a dog knows if you know what your doing or not! And i also believe there not stupid! They sence every little emotion in you! the slightest hesitation or fear could result in the tables turning! I handle my dogs with caution and sometimes hesitation but in my mind i know that no matter the out come i will win! i think they sence it and know if they can win or not! I'm no expert by all means but i like to feel i have gained my dogs respect and trust no matter what way we do it! xxxx

I'm afraid this just reinforces all my reservations about CM.

Firstly, yes he causes loads of problems because he appeals particularly to people who don't know much about 'real' dog training and who get things very badly wrong.

Secondly he so often presents a relationship with a dog as a 'battle' that needs to be 'won'. What the heck is that all about? I work with my dogs, I don't fight them. As it happens, I'm the one in the relationship with the brains (possibly :lol: ) and I can use them to work round things and find ways to change behaviours I don't want with patience and training without jabbing, kicking, strangling, pinning or scruffing my dogs. Simples.

well said!thought we were going back to the dark ages for a minute there! :thumbsup:

 

[dabroad]

Dabroad, yes dogs do growl and pin each other by the throat, they also eat dog food out of bowls on the floor, sniff and lick each others bums and delight in rolling in fox poo, do you? I'm fairly certain that your dogs know you are not a dog and will be confused if you try to behave like one.

I do try! :lol: hahahahahaha not fox poo though more horse poo!

 

[Dar Khan]

We all have our own opinion , which is good for debates

Im going to see him next month at Nottingham arena

Dont you go and get yourself nicked for assault mind ! :clown:

 

[whippetfan]

If anybody watched a real life wolf pack or even a demesticated dog pack you will see how they act around each other cesar creates this through using dog "language" One comment was about "Re. has he had a whippet, I have no idea, but the thought that anyone would find it necessary to alpha roll a whippet abhors me" A whippet is a dog the same as every other breed. It bites it barks and it can attack! it is a dog none the less wether there shy or more timid then other breeds. Whippets act the same as every other dog and so should be treated the same. I pin mine down when mine are out of line and it works. My bitch used to be protective over pigs ears. She's not anymore! I don't scare her as her tail isn't in between her legs i's neutral and she respects me! Pinning a dog down by it's neck does not harm a dog. If you watch a mum and her babies ... what does she do when they are out of line or naughty. She scruffs them and pins them down ...as does a alfa wolf. It's just about reading your dogs body language and understanding there ways of life. I try my best and so far my dog are a happy complete pack! I hope cesar works for you sadie! xxx :thumbsup:

Small problem - we're not dogs and dogs know it. :teehee:

I think Cesar is very good at what he does. He's stood between a lot of dogs and the needle and saved many.

What worries me is when people try to apply the style he reserves for dealing with dogs with quite severe issues to their own family pets. Cesar gets bitten frequently. Bites are not an acceptable outcome of a dog training program for your average pet owner.

All dogs are NOT alike. They have different drives and temperaments. A good trainer reads the dog and applies the technique that will work.

"Alpha dog" training techniques are based on flawed research and are probably one of the leading causes of dog to handler aggression around. Pin a fearful dog or a pup and you'll either get a puddle of urine or defensive response. Pin a dominant big one and you'll need your ambulance cover handy.

No need to bully a dog to motivate it.

 

[Sadie]

Lots of useful discussion here and some fun stuff too! :thumbsup:

Watching Sam and Jack play recently, I noticed that when Jack becomes abit too much, ie too fast and energetic, Sam resorts to holding Jack down by his throat for few seconds. We supervise this just in case his "bite" becomes a bit too hard but every time, Sam knows just how much pressure to exert. Jack VERY quickly quietens down!! No sqealing or weeing but an immediate recognition that he has overstepped the mark! :unsure:

Wish my two sons were as respectful! :sweating: Thanks for sharing! :thumbsup:

Hannah x

If anybody watched a real life wolf pack or even a demesticated dog pack you will see how they act around each other cesar creates this through using dog "language" One comment was about "Re. has he had a whippet, I have no idea, but the thought that anyone would find it necessary to alpha roll a whippet abhors me" A whippet is a dog the same as every other breed. It bites it barks and it can attack! it is a dog none the less wether there shy or more timid then other breeds. Whippets act the same as every other dog and so should be treated the same. I pin mine down when mine are out of line and it works. My bitch used to be protective over pigs ears. She's not anymore! I don't scare her as her tail isn't in between her legs i's neutral and she respects me! Pinning a dog down by it's neck does not harm a dog. If you watch a mum and her babies ... what does she do when they are out of line or naughty. She scruffs them and pins them down ...as does a alfa wolf. It's just about reading your dogs body language and understanding there ways of life. I try my best and so far my dog are a happy complete pack! I hope cesar works for you sadie! xxx :thumbsup:

Small problem - we're not dogs and dogs know it. :teehee:

I think Cesar is very good at what he does. He's stood between a lot of dogs and the needle and saved many.

What worries me is when people try to apply the style he reserves for dealing with dogs with quite severe issues to their own family pets. Cesar gets bitten frequently. Bites are not an acceptable outcome of a dog training program for your average pet owner.

All dogs are NOT alike. They have different drives and temperaments. A good trainer reads the dog and applies the technique that will work.

"Alpha dog" training techniques are based on flawed research and are probably one of the leading causes of dog to handler aggression around. Pin a fearful dog or a pup and you'll either get a puddle of urine or defensive response. Pin a dominant big one and you'll need your ambulance cover handy.

No need to bully a dog to motivate it.

 

[Lal]

Lots of useful discussion here and some fun stuff too! :thumbsup:

:thumbsup: Agreed :thumbsup:

It's always good to have some healthy discussion and a wide range of views. As I said in an earlier post, I don't have any strong views about Cesar Millan or his methods. I think with dog training, rather like bringing up children, there will always be a range of methods and opinions be it Dr Spock, Penelope Leach or Supernanny. IMHO, perhaps the healthiest approach is not to follow one particular method 'slavishly' but to draw on the knowledge gained from the experience of 'experts' and utilise whatever you feel comfortable with and which suits your situation, but with consistency. I don't believe there is a 'one size fits all' method. Dogs, like children, have individual personalities and characteristics. Cesar Millan is something of an extremist as was Dr Spock, it doesn't mean all his methods are bad but it doesn't mean they are right for everyone or every situation.