Co-ownership Of A Whippet

[Rachel]

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Hi all,

it has always intrigued me when dogs are owned in co-ownership as to how it works practically and in what circumstances it is done. The dogs I have noted are usually top flight.

Arrangements must be individual, but how is it decided who shows him/her at what show, or pays for stud/entry fees, or whelps litters etc. isn't it fraught with dilemmas, and what are the benefits - presumably there are some or it would not be a common practice.

I hope this isn't a dumb dumb question! I'm just curious.

Rachel :blink: ( where's the quizzical emoticon with a question mark above its head when you need one???)

 

[k4tie-d]

i also wondered how this works

:thumbsup:

 

[neave]

Its a good question! I co-own my whippets and affix with my Dad and so far, touch wood we havent had any arguments with regards to who shows who. We co-own six whippets, five of them live with my parents and i have one staying with me. Dad tends to show Jake and Sonny who stays with him and i show Keano who lives with me and time to time if we take Molly with us i will show her. Often people say to us why dont we swap about the dogs we show, but i wont let my dad put his hands on Keano cause he shows better for me :lol: :lol: . I think it all depends on which person gets the best out of which dog.

We also share the entry fee for the dogs shows and share reponsiblity for them i look after all the dogs when my parents are on holiday etc and my parents will look after Keano if am away. We also share Vet bills etc regard to Stud fees and money for pups it all goes to my Mum who has to put up with me and my dad and the dogs :lol: :lol: If it wasnt for my Dad i wouldnt be showing at all so i owe it all to him

 

[affieluver]

good thread i also wondered how this works and how do you find someone to co -own with as i presume its not always friends or relatives?

 

[Debbie Reed]

I co own Amie with my sister who lives in France. She used to show dogs in England before she moved over to France and was quite keen to still have an interest in the English show scene so went halves in Amie.

It works very well. I look after and show Amie and she pays half her costs. :thumbsup: When she is over in England visiting I try to make sure we are showing so she can come and watch her.

Funny though, when she is good she is "her" dog and when wicked is mine!

She also says she owns the middle section which neither eats anything or deposits anything!

Debbie

 

[zilloot]

Co-ownership :angry: In my opinion just don't do it.

 

[seaspot_run]

It works the same as co-ownership of any other breed of dog.

And is highly dependent on the personalities and priorities of the two parties involved.

I have silent co-ownerships over here with several of my dogs so that I can have the option of showing them in a class we have called "Bred-By Exhibitor". The exhibitor must be one of the owners. This is a prestige class.

But by silent, I mean that in terms of their breeding careers or any puppies from them, I don't have any special rights. Usually, I sign off when the dog is finished as a champion.

Then, there are bitches co-owned for the specific purpose of sharing litters. I only do this with people I feel certain I can work with harmoniously, who share my basic philosophies. We split expenses and arrive on agreed-upon stud dogs together. I've been able to do breedings I could not otherwise afford because of these arrangements.

Then, there are youngsters co-owned until they have completed their titles. That's for the purpose of having my name on a successful show dog, but after that, I'm happy to sign off.

Then, there are owners who offer me the co-ownership as an honorary. They feel that my having my name on the dog gives the dog my seal of approval that yes, this is a really good example of my breeding program.

There are also dogs who live with me that I co-own with Scudder because she enjoys planning their careers, designing beautiful advertisements for them, and paying for them to be shown by really good handlers and has the resources to do this, better than I. I'm happy to put her name on the dog and have her help with giving them wider exposure than I could otherwise afford to give them.

 

[zilloot]

:blink: My computer froze before the rest of my post came up....

Co-ownership - it's only Kennel Club Registration documentation - the legal posession of the dog is something that's best checked with a solicitor from the start so keep receipts and other documentation safe. It's absolutely paramount to be clear who legally owns the dog outright. Some people just can't be trusted.

It's worth knowing that The Kennel club only oversees it's own registrations system and has no jurisdiction in a normal court of law.

 

[zilloot]

:blink: My computer froze before the rest of my post came up....



Co-ownership - it's only Kennel Club Registration documentation - the legal posession of the dog is something that's best checked with a solicitor from the start so keep receipts and other documentation safe.  It's absolutely paramount to be clear who legally owns the dog outright.  Some people just can't be trusted.

It's worth knowing that The Kennel club only oversees it's own registrations system and has no jurisdiction in a normal court of law.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

By the way, for my own co-owned dogs the situation luckily works well because I investigated the legal side thoroughly and am happy with the arrangements for purpose and status of the co-ownership but I know of cases where it's caused terrible distress to both parties so I would advise extreme caution.

 

[affieluver]

thanks for both sides of co ownership i dont know if i could cope with that arrangement i love my dogs too much and couldnt cope with them going home with someone else no matter who it is

 

[BlackMoon Magic]

Hi, I am only new to the show scene and I co-own Aslan Strike it Rich (striker) with Lana from Aslan kennels. I always said i would never do this till i spoke with Lana. In my situation it has worked out great. Striker is mine, and will always live with me but by Lana co-owning him with me she has givin me much help with him about his show career. :lol: Though i do agree with others that say BE VERY CAREFUL as not everyone can be trusted.

Thats just my little input and opinion. )

 

[*Lesley*]

The only person I would ever co-own with is my husband, which I do :thumbsup:

People have different veiws of how they bring up their dogs and I feel that the person who rears/feeds/loves and pays for the keep the dog should make the decisions for it, I'm not sure how the person who is the other name on paper would know the dogs well enough to do that :unsure:

Obviously I think its great that the original owner is on hand should advice, help ect be needed but I wouldn't do it personally.

 

[Cartman]

I have had & still have several dogs in Co-ownes & or a lease style deal.

At the moment I am happy with the suituation.

BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you are a first timer start with a mental check on your new partner. I am not being funny.

You get phone calls 24 hours a day, all of a sudden a bill for treatment only a monk can give etc etc. That is if you are one of the lucky ones. As rule of thumb, it is a one way deal.

I have had dogs being shown in names I did not OK, litters I said could not happen, & even being told the dog died & their next litter happens to be a little suss.

All in all, I would not change a thing. Reason, it shows up the A$$H@LE$ in the dog world.

At moment things could not be better. But I have known the people for 30 or more years.

 

[almondjd]

Hi all,

This is a subject that is near and dear to my heart. While there are some who co-own multiple dogs with multiple other parties without any problems (the very lucky, I believe), there are many who go through heartbreaking, and often expensive, ordeals involving co-owned dogs and I have represented many clients in co-ownership deals gone bad.

IMO, the first thing to consider when contemplating a co-ownership (and for the purposes of this post, I'm going to assume that husband/wife, sibling/sibling, and parent/child co-ownerships are problem free) is what your own expectations are from the co-ownership and equally as important, how you would feel and what you would do or be prepared to do, if your expectations are not met. Examples of this run the gamut from the co-owner entering and showing the dog at a dog show that all co-owners don't agree upon to breeding a litter not agreed to by all to the co-owner in possession relinquishing the co-owned dog to a third party, without the other co-owner(s) knowledge or consent. So, at the very least, I believe that potential co-owners should thoroughly discuss and agree in advance on how they intend to run the business arrangement part of co-owning a dog, which is essentially what it is. Typically, the agreement between the co-owners should be comprehensively reduced to writing in a way eliminates or minimizes any potential misunderstandings later - and should the need arise, gives a court some guidance as to what was intended by the parties.

Another thing with co-ownerships that is often overlooked is that, at least in Maryland (and elsewhere in the US as far as I am aware), when two unrelated parties co-own a dog, unless there is a contract which specifies that the parties co-own the dogs as joint tenants with rights of survivorship or the parties leave their interest in the dog to the co-owner in their will, upon the death of one of the parties, the dogs, which are considered chattel (property), are deemed to have been held by the co-owners as 'tenants in common' meaning that each co-owner (let's assume two co-owners) own a divisible 50% interest in the dog. So, if one of the co-owners dies and either does not have a will or does not specify in his/her will that the deceased parties' interest in the co-owned dog goes to the other co-owner (and there is no contract specifying joint tenancy), legally, the surviving co-owner is then in the position of having to purchase the deceased co-owners interest in the dog from deceased persons estate/heirs/beneficiaries, if they are even willing to sell. In a worst-case scenario, parties A and B co-own a dog (no written contract) and everything goes wonderfully with their co-ownership until party A dies. Party A has a will leaving everything to his son, C and neglecting to specify that B gets A's interest in the dog. B wants to buy C's inherited interest in the dog (and let's assume here that they agree on the monetary value of this interest which can be a whole different problem) but C wants to sell the dog to D because he doesn't like B and refuses to sell to B. The court has no power or authority to order that C sell his interest in the dog to B. The only thing that the court can do is order a sale of the dog to a third party and a division of the net proceeds of sale between the parties.

OK. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Jalynn

 

[zilloot]

Hi all,
This is a subject that is near and dear to my heart.  While there are some who co-own multiple dogs with multiple other parties without any problems (the very lucky, I believe), there are many who go through heartbreaking, and often expensive, ordeals involving co-owned dogs and I have represented many clients in co-ownership deals gone bad.

IMO, the first thing to consider when contemplating a co-ownership (and for the purposes of this post, I'm going to assume that husband/wife, sibling/sibling, and parent/child co-ownerships are problem free) is what your own expectations are from the co-ownership and equally as important, how you would feel and what you would do or be prepared to do,  if your expectations are not met.  Examples of this run the gamut from the co-owner entering and showing the dog at a dog show that all co-owners don't agree upon to breeding a litter not agreed to by all to the co-owner in possession relinquishing the co-owned dog to a third party, without the other co-owner(s) knowledge or consent.  So, at the very least, I believe that potential co-owners should thoroughly discuss and agree in advance on how they intend to run the business arrangement part of co-owning a dog, which is essentially what it is.  Typically, the agreement between the co-owners should be comprehensively reduced to writing in a way eliminates or minimizes any potential misunderstandings later - and should the need arise, gives a court some guidance as to what was intended by the parties.

Another thing with co-ownerships that is often overlooked is that, at least in Maryland (and elsewhere in the US as far as I am aware), when two unrelated parties co-own a dog, unless there is a contract which specifies that the parties co-own the dogs as joint tenants with rights of survivorship or the parties leave their interest in the dog to the co-owner in their will, upon the death of one of the parties, the dogs, which are considered chattel (property), are deemed to have been held by the co-owners as 'tenants in common' meaning that each co-owner (let's assume two co-owners) own a divisible 50% interest in the dog.  So, if one of the co-owners dies and either does not have a will or does not specify in his/her will that the deceased parties' interest in the co-owned dog goes to the other co-owner (and there is no contract specifying joint tenancy), legally, the surviving co-owner is then in the position of having to purchase the deceased co-owners interest in the dog from deceased persons estate/heirs/beneficiaries, if they are even willing to sell.  In a worst-case scenario, parties A and B co-own a dog (no written contract) and everything goes wonderfully with their co-ownership until party A dies.  Party A has a will leaving everything to his son, C and neglecting to specify that B gets A's interest in the dog.  B wants to buy C's inherited interest in the dog (and let's assume here that they agree on the monetary value of this interest which can be a whole different problem) but C wants to sell the dog to D because he doesn't like B and refuses to sell to B.  The court has no power or authority to order that C sell his interest in the dog to B.  The only thing that the court can do is order a sale of the dog to a third party and a division of the net proceeds of sale between the parties.

OK.  I'll get off my soapbox now.

Jalynn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

As I understand it in the UK the ownership of the dog (without a written contract) lies with the person who holds a purchase receipt for the dog and other written evidence of ownership outside the KC registration system. The co-ownership registration with The Kennel Club is basically for showing/breeding purposes only. That way if registrant 'A' has a receipt for the dog which lives with them and registrant 'B', the KC reg co-owner dies, the dog still fully legally belongs to 'A' and 'B's heirs have no legal claim on ownership of the dog at all. After speaking to the Kennel Club at length about co-ownership recently, the only action 'B' can take is in relation to KC activities (transfers/showing etc) where both signatures are required, otherwise they have no claim on the physical ownership of the dog... it would be impossible for 'B' to remove the dog from 'A's posession without facing criminal charges of theft. The KC representative actually told me in cases of threats to physical ownership of the dog they recommend contacting the police directly. However, that would also not involve the KC (and hence it's co-ownership status) because the KC do not have a 'legal' department and do not get involved in litigation outside their own registration system.

Therefore the dog is only co-owned in terms of 'registration with the participating monopoly' and outside KC activities the co-ownership status is not worth the paper it's written on.

 

[beaker]

such an interesting topic as i've recently gone into co-ownership on O'Amos's black and white litter sister Gyp with Kath and Hannah, the breeders of my O'Amos

i'd wanted Gyp since the second she was born, there was just something about her but i can't have girlies full time in a house full of boys so i decided on Our Amos instead,

Gyp lives at Kath and Hannahs with her sister Lola, Hannah shows Lola and i'll be showing Gyp soon, now her leg is getting better, both girls stop at mine occasionally and play out with my lot every week.

i'm lucky in that i concider Kath and Han to be good mates,

the way i'd describe it is Hannah is Gyp's "mum" and i'm Gyp's "god mother" :thumbsup: