Critiques, All Systems

[seaspot_run]

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The weirdest critique I ever read was submitted by a rather crusty old US Breeder/judge who was noted for being a real character. He described one exhibit as having "feet like a dead baby's hands". Obviously, the newsletter editor edited out this part of the critique, but I swear that is what the man wanted to share with the world.

Perhaps the least offensive critique I have ever read was about a Novice dog single entry. Here, our Novice class is mostly a "pet dog" or "entry stuffer" class, which I found was not the case in the UK. So, the dog who won was really not a very good dog at all, but he was entered to get a first place prize and to support the show, and the judge rather than telling the world how many faults this exhibit had, just simply said:

Novice dog, 1 dog entered, very nice tight scissors bite on this exhibit, and clean teeth.

 

[quintessence]

My young dog recently had a BOB award at an Open Show, as a puppy he had several Best Puppy Awards at Open Shows which were never reported on so I was more than a little interested in the critique and awaited its' publication with great anticipation. Imagine my surprise when he was described as an elegant bitch, now I know he's not a big dog but it did have me wondering if it was a slip of the pen or the judge really did think he was of the fairer sex.

One of my sons, ever eager to explain the situation, did say perhaps the judge was commenting on the handler rather than the dog. (w00t)

The comment I have always 'wondered' about is 'looks like it could do a day's work', assuming the judge does not mean on the check-out at Tesco, how can you possibly tell how a dog will work just by looking at it.

Jenny

 

[seaspot_run]

My young dog recently had a BOB award at an Open Show, as a puppy he had several Best Puppy Awards at Open Shows which were never reported on so I was more than a little interested in the critique and awaited its' publication with great anticipation.  Imagine my surprise when he was described as an elegant bitch, now I know he's not a big dog but  it did have me wondering if it was a slip of the pen or the judge really did think he was of the fairer sex.
One of my sons, ever eager to explain the situation, did say perhaps the judge was commenting on the handler rather than the dog. (w00t)

The comment I have always 'wondered' about is 'looks like it could do a day's work', assuming the judge does not mean on the check-out at Tesco, how can you possibly tell how a dog will work just by looking at it.

Jenny

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I don't mind that comment...I think it means the dog has good feet, strong pads, and a strong back, and good muscle tone and moves and shows with apparent energy.

That may not be such a big thing judging our burst sprinting breed, but it's something that you SHOULD be considering in judging a gun dog or pastoral dog, or a coaching dog like a Dalmatian. It would be a completely stupid thing to say about a Peke or a Pom.

Your son, btw, should go into politics.... 8)

 

[nina]

Huuummmmd & hahhd about answering on here as i think critiques are a bit of an emotive subject :- "

So i am going to just speak personally here. This is just my opinion. :thumbsup:

1.When i write a critique, i like it to be constructive & for the exhibitors to know why i placed first over second & 2nd over 3rd etc. I dont beleive in fault judging at all BUT beleive you should be TRUTHFUL but TACTFUL.

2. A judge does not need to slate a dog but can constructively point out their good points as well as their shortcomings in a polite & informative manner.

3. Personally i HATE a nicey nicey critique that tells you naff all apart from "nice bitch, nice head, moved well"?? I HATE the word NICE. I want to know as an exhibitor WHY the judge thought it was "nice" & why it beat any other dogs?.

4. I personally know from experience that a lot of people ( And i have to say here an awful lot of newcomers) want to just read a nicey nicey critique & feel that any kind of critism is a major personal attack on THEIR dog where as the "old timers" will be quick to acknowledge what you have picked up upon and love nothing more than having a good old debate with you after.

5. As an exhibitor, Entry fees are damn expensive & i personally dont want to throw away £ 20+ to know that my dog was "nice". As a judge i certainly appreciate the exhibitors entries & want to let them know in a polite & constructive way what my opinion of their dog was.

 

[playawhile]

Just for fun whats your most hated phrase when reading critiques?
Mine is  " filled my eye "   or  " all of a piece "  or " unlucky to meet winner "

I prefer the critiques of our judges from abroad as you are left with no doubt that they have seen both the faults and virtues of the dog and the emphasis they have placed on each,  we know no dog is perfect but are sometimes left wondering if the faults have been noticed at all.  and no i dont mean "Head like a Bucket" but simply "a bit strong in head"  would be helpful    Jan

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There is a lot of difference between fault judging and judging on virtues even the great ones have faults but their virtues are very strong, you don't want the non entity dog with no great faults and no great virtue.When we judge it is our own interpretation of the standard. I have given top honors to animals that in certain areas where for example I would have prefer-ed a longer neck, the next judge comes along and thinks the neck is long enough for them. In FCI countries it is a lot different ,the critique is between the judge and exhibitor and is not put into print. I was told many years ago that the perfect dog could not be bred, if one was the best thing to do would be to shoot it and stuff it. So for me it is judging on virtues every bit of the way.

My pet hate is compact........soft gentle expression is not bright and alert.

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No one here in Sweden would mind the critiques being published in a dog paper like Dog World, and if we were to start going that I can't see that the judges would start leaving out negative parts!

Since we have the system of grading the dogs, we do expact the judge to explain why my dog had a red, blue or yeallow ribbon.

Just because a judge mentiones faults in the critiques doesn't mean he/she is judging on faults. I think this whole matter is about culture and what we are used to.

Henrik

 

[Sachiko]

In Finland (I don’t know if they still do this?) they used to publish all critiques from all shows on each dog every year, so that anyone could read them.

They do and I'm in the impression Marita Furu is working on those again. Checked from our site that the latest is from 2005 so I don't know if that will be 2006-2007 or something. Great deal of work, anyway.

When it comes to the most hatet critics, my own ar the really short ones that give absolutely no info at all. Few weeks back I was in a dog show where the judge wrote three shor phrases and they seemed to be about the same for every dog. Good balance, lovely head (what does tha even mean? she's cute?). Nice topline and a mention about immature movements. Nothing specific to explain why he liked what he liked. Tough, I still don't think he was a bag judge and I was quite pleased with results and how he placed my dog, I'd only liked him to be a bit more specific. I wouldn't mind getting those faults in there too, after all, finding the not so good points on my dog is my hardest job.

The other one making me fustrated is "needs maturing, filling, time, etc.." Hence to me this is a bit obvious.

 

[Zephyr]

One of the worst critiques I have ever seen at a club show (none were of my dog), included the following bland and extremely uninformative phrases:-

Smart fawn whippet, nice dark eye

Fawn bitch of correct type

Nice dog, neat feet, best is yet to come

Brindle bitch, firm favourite of mine, can't believe her age

Small dog of correct proportions

That seems to be lazy critique writing in the extreme.

Good topic, and it can be really frustrating when you don't get a write up, especally when you have done well. We got a RBIS at a breed open show a few years ago, and I know that the judge sent her critiques by email and by post to both papers, and they were never published!! She did intend to post me a copy anyway, but I think she forgot.

 

[maggie217]

:rant: I've said it before, but can't help but say it again. Since I have come back into dog showing I have been really disappointed reading the critiques in the dog papers, or rather not finding them to read. Ruby has had first placings, none of which have been published yet, and, apart from one which I am sure will be published, it looks as if the others now won't be. When I showed the beagles [long ago] critiques were done to 3rd place for ALL shows including Sanction Shows. And, I don't ever remember a critique not being printed. :rant:

 

 

Pauline

 

[chelynnah]

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Now back to the topic.

Wendy

 

[T Hoare]

In relation to Maggie217

It is frustrating for a judge to take the trouble of compiling a non repetitve critique of 1 & 2, when all the papers seem to do is edit/cut out words which then make sentances read totally different. This is the norm, so why would a judge take their time to compile a critique for 1,2 or even 3 when it gets altered.

As an exhibitor(because I was one before I judged :teehee: )

I looked forward to my critiques, I do now, but perhaps not with quite so much eagerness. I totally agree with putting good points(we all love those) but if a judge puts something 'in writing' that may not be correct, then it can be very misleading. I do understand it is only that particular judges opinion but it is possible to condem a dog with a bad/poor critique. Hope I have made that clear?? (probably clear as mud)

As a Judge

I loathe critiques.

I was taught not to write negative comments.

I try not to repeat myself, giving ' the best' critique to the highest honour(CC/BOB) then go down the scale, so to speak, to the next best(Res CC/ Res BOB) and so on.

I have seen critiques which are very lengthy on say a 2nd placing with the 1st only getting a few words!

I am not very good at english literature so always use a thesaurus(good dinosaur :teehee:

Sorry to ramble

 

[kennelmaid]

On a lighter note---

Years ago I was showing at a local open show and my whippet, Sadie won her class. I waited in anticipation for the critique to appear in Dog World, which it duly did.

The judge had written a nice complimentary critque which included the phrase 'NICE SHAPELY REAR'

A few weeks later I attended another show and bumped into my friend and her father.

'Nice critique for Sadie in the paper' her father said.

'Thanks' says I

'When the judge wrote NICE SHAPELY REAR was he talking about you or the dog Yvonne?' he said :lol: :lol:

Hence to say I didn't know where to put myself.

The gentleman in question has since died and when I think of the episode it always make me smile

Yvonne

:huggles:

 

[UKUSA]

As has been said before, it is part of a judges contract that you agree to submit a critique to the dog papers. I like to get my critique written within 24 hours of judging, while its all still fresh in my mind and my notes still mean something to me. Yes Ive read too the critiques that tell you absolutely nothing and could be any breed and it makes you wonder how they ever gained championship show judge status.

I agree with what was said earlier, it is an honour to be asked to stand in the middle of the ring and give your opinion on the breed that you love and a huge compliment when people enter their dogs under you, as a judge you owe the exhibitors a critique, sent to the dog papers, as soon as possible.

Nicky

 

[maggie217]

My rant is in the main against the dog papers as in every instance I have referred to I saw the judges make their notes. As I see things I really feel that exhibitors are shortchanged nowadays. It would be good if critiques were published other than in the press.

Pauline

 

[chelynnah]

In relation to Maggie217It is frustrating for a judge to take the trouble of compiling a non repetitve critique of 1 & 2, when all the papers seem to do is edit/cut out words which then make sentances read totally different. This is the norm, so why would a judge take their time to compile a critique for 1,2 or even 3 when it gets altered.

OMGosh I saw a critique (not one of mine) that was aboslutely butchered and was horribly insulting, but I think it was actually done by the typesetters rather than edited. The typesetters reversed a few words. I was shocked when I read it in the first paper. I coudlnt' believe the judge could be so catty! Then when I read the correct version the following week in the other paper with the 3 words in the right place, it was very complementary and meant something completely different. All for the misplacement of 3 words!

I believe the critique was something like this

Wrong way round:

'showing her age and not at all handled well'

Correct:

'not at all showing her age and handled well'

And I won't even begin to mention the changes when the editors have gotten to it and removed the odd word or two which changes what the judge was saying.

WEndy

 

[T Hoare]

I have noticed more at open shows not champ shows, that if there is a critique on 2nd, the 3rd placing is not mentioned.

 

[maggie217]

I have noticed more at open shows not champ shows, that if there is a critique on 2nd, the 3rd placing is not mentioned.

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Yes, I have noticed that too, but rarely is a critique for 2nd published for an Open show. .

 

[T Hoare]

As has been said before, it is part of a judges contract that you agree to submit a critique to the dog papers. I like to get my critique written within 24 hours of judging, while its all still fresh in my mind and my notes still mean  something to me. Yes Ive read too the critiques that tell you absolutely nothing and could be any breed and it makes you wonder how they ever gained championship show judge status.I agree with what was said earlier, it is an honour to be asked to stand in the middle of the ring and give your opinion on the breed that you love and a huge compliment when people enter their dogs under you, as a judge you owe the exhibitors a critique, sent to the dog papers, as soon as possible.

Nicky

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I'm sure I have read recently(not sure where) that all breed limited & open show judges are not contracted?? I have been trying to remember where i have seen it so I know my facts first(how annoying, I can't find it)

 

[T Hoare]

I have noticed more at open shows not champ shows, that if there is a critique on 2nd, the 3rd placing is not mentioned.

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Yes, I have noticed that too, but rarely is a critique for 2nd published for an Open show. .

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I think Our Dogs tend to print 2nd more than Dog World.

 

[marier05]

On a lighter note---Years ago I was showing at a local open show and my whippet, Sadie won her class. I waited in anticipation for the critique to appear in Dog World, which it duly did.

The judge had written a nice complimentary critque which included the phrase 'NICE SHAPELY REAR'

A few weeks later I attended another show and bumped into my friend and her father.

'Nice critique for Sadie in the paper' her father said.

'Thanks' says I

'When the judge wrote NICE SHAPELY REAR was he talking about you or the dog Yvonne?' he said :lol:   :lol:

Hence to say I didn't know where to put myself.

The gentleman in question has since died and when I think of the episode it always make me smile

Yvonne

:huggles:

:lol:   :lol:   Thats hilarious!!  Im getting such a laugh from all these bizarre critiques im reading!!  Tia is looking at me as if im crazy  :wacko:   laughing at the computer!!  (w00t)

Im currently awaiting 3 critiques a BOB and a first for Tia and a second from and open show for Tara.  Heres hoping there in soon.  They were all mid April.

Marie.  :huggles:

 

[UKUSA]

At open shows, when you get all your bits and pieces from the secretary amongst these are generally a couple of envelopes, one from each dog paper, with instructions on what they require from you the judge with regards to your critique. You are asked to be concise and you are told to critique one and two only. Without a doubt they will trim your critique if they feel they dont have the room!

Nicky