Crufts Photos

[Sidewinders]

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Look what I've found! Nice pics from Cruft's! :thumbsup: It's Polish Sighthound Club's site.

http://www.klubcharta.zkwp.pl/wyst/cruft06/album/index.html

 

[Juley]

They are really great pix.

 

[Ridgesetter]

Personnallly I d much rather stand where [SIZE=21pt]I[/SIZE] want .

No such luxury here in Oz. It's strictly alphabetical by owner's name and we're generally assembled in order before entering the ring.

 

[Avalonia]

I quite like the idea in Sweden , where you are numbered by the `kennel name `. you can see all from one kennel and sometimes one litter all together , not very good if they all remember `mum or dad `though  :lol:

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In Canada they go by catalog number and I think this is an excellent idea as it provides no identification of who the whippet is whereas the Swedish system you note means if you are an insecure judge (and lord knows I have seen a few of them in my time) you may choose to put up a lot of stuff from a particular kennel on the assumption, correct or not, that they produce the best whippets. Catalog order on the other hand makes the judge judge the dog without a tip as to who owns or bred it.

I did see them try to impose catalog order at South Yorkshire while I was there last time and it worked for a couple of classes and then the mobs went in and did their typical thing. I think if you have to walk behind a certain dog or person because your dog will not otherwise behave well enough in the ring, then you have a problem and perhaps you and the dog should not be there till the dog is properly trained. Catalog entry is a great equalizer.

On another note, I had a good look at the photos on the French website of all the Crufts whippets and I return to one of my previous points about the way whippets are exhibited in England: If colour is immaterial then what is wrong with this picture.... 130 pictures of fawn/blue or fawn brindle dogs and none of the wonderful red, black or mahogany brindle or other dogs that I know exist in England in the multitudes in the whole the bunch? I own fawn whippets, and fawn brindle whippets and blue fawn brindle whippets too, but I also own mahogany and red brindle and black brindle whippets and I love and adore and admire them all,(though I especially love blue fawn brindle and black brindles), irrespective of their colour.

But when I look at those 100 plus photos all I can say is boring, boring, boring and unrealistic beyond belief because the world of whippets is more than shades of fawn. For heavens sakes the foundation dogs of the whippet breed weren't even fawn, but they seem to have taken over the English universe in the years since.

My question: is the best whippet really being judged when the judges are known to have such a strong colour preference that only people who have their favoured colour dare enter? Someone in an earlier Crufts post said a lot of big names in England were not entered at Crufts this year and it is clear they were not and why would they be there. Would you spend the kind of money it takes to enter Crufts if you knew you would be left uncarded because your dogs would not pass the unwritten colour code? I'd stay home too.

This is a pity. Crufts is the greatest dog show in the world, despite all efforts by the Americans to claim Westminster is, and you end up with a breed that has only a portion of its top dogs entered because the coat colour doesn't jibe with the perceived preferences of the judges?

Isn't it time, wouldn't it really have been a show if whippets in all their forms and all their olours could have been exhibited and judged on the same basis -- conformation first and foremost? As a foreign visitor I would certainly have felt I saw the depth and breadth of English whippets if I had seen all the dogs who had gone to the top and earned CCs over the past year or two, instead of just a select slice of appropriately coloured dogs.

Only in England I say? Pity!

Lanny

Lanny

 

[Avalonia]

I quite like the idea in Sweden , where you are numbered by the `kennel name `. you can see all from one kennel and sometimes one litter all together , not very good if they all remember `mum or dad `though  :lol:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

In Canada they go by catalog number and I think this is an excellent idea as it provides no identification of who the whippet is whereas the Swedish system you note means if you are an insecure judge (and lord knows I have seen a few of them in my time) you may choose to put up a lot of stuff from a particular kennel on the assumption, correct or not, that they produce the best whippets. Catalog order on the other hand makes the judge judge the dog without necessarily tipping who owns or bred it.

I did see them try to impose catalog order at South Yorkshire while I was there last time and it worked for a couple of classes and then the mobs went in and did their typical thing. I think if you have to walk behind a certain dog or person because your dog will not otherwise behave well enough in the ring, or your think the judge is so dense he or she will only remember the first six dogs as someone else suggested perhaps in jest, then you have a problem and perhaps you and the dog should not be there till the dog is properly trained or the judge is put out to pasture as being past the post and unqualified for future assignments. Catalog entry is a great equalizer.

On another note, I had a good look at the photos on the French website of all the Crufts whippets and I return to one of my previous points about the way whippets are exhibited in England: If colour is immaterial then what is wrong with this picture.... 130 pictures of fawn/blue or fawn brindle dogs and none of the wonderful red, black or mahogany brindle or other dogs that I know exist in England in the multitudes in the whole the bunch? I own fawn whippets, and fawn brindle whippets and blue fawn brindle whippets too, but I also own mahogany and red brindle and black brindle particolour whippets and I love and adore and admire them all,(though I especially love blue fawn brindle and black brindles), irrespective of their colour.

But when I look at those 100 plus photos all I can say is boring, boring, boring and unrealistic beyond belief because the world of whippets is more than shades of fawn. For heavens sakes the foundation dogs of the whippet breed weren't even fawn, but they seem to have taken over the English universe in the years since.

My question: is the best whippet really being judged when the judges are known to have such a strong colour preference that only people who have their favoured colour dare enter? Someone in an earlier Crufts post said a lot of big names in England were not entered at Crufts this year and it is clear they were not and why would they be there? Would you spend the kind of money it takes to enter Crufts if you knew you would be left uncarded simply because your dogs would not pass the unwritten colour code? I'd stay home too.

This is a pity. Crufts is the greatest dog show in the world, despite all efforts by the Americans to claim Westminster is, and you end up with a breed that has only a portion of its top dogs entered because the coat colour doesn't jibe with the perceived preferences of the judges?

Isn't it time, wouldn't it really have been a show if whippets in all their forms and all their olours could have been exhibited and judged on the same basis -- conformation first and foremost? As a foreign visitor I would certainly have felt I saw the depth and breadth of English whippets if I had seen all the dogs who had gone to the top and earned CCs over the past year or two, instead of just a select slice of appropriately coloured dpgs.

Only in England? Thank heavens I say!

Lanny

 

[jok]

I quite like the idea in Sweden , where you are numbered by the `kennel name `. you can see all from one kennel and sometimes one litter all together , not very good if they all remember `mum or dad `though  :lol:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

In Canada they go by catalog number and I think this is an excellent idea as it provides no identification of who the whippet is whereas the Swedish system you note means if you are an insecure judge (and lord knows I have seen a few of them in my time) you may choose to put up a lot of stuff from a particular kennel on the assumption, correct or not, that they produce the best whippets. Catalog order on the other hand makes the judge judge the dog without a tip as to who owns or bred it.

I did see them try to impose catalog order at South Yorkshire while I was there last time and it worked for a couple of classes and then the mobs went in and did their typical thing. I think if you have to walk behind a certain dog or person because your dog will not otherwise behave well enough in the ring, then you have a problem and perhaps you and the dog should not be there till the dog is properly trained. Catalog entry is a great equalizer.

On another note, I had a good look at the photos on the French website of all the Crufts whippets and I return to one of my previous points about the way whippets are exhibited in England: If colour is immaterial then what is wrong with this picture.... 130 pictures of fawn/blue or fawn brindle dogs and none of the wonderful red, black or mahogany brindle or other dogs that I know exist in England in the multitudes in the whole the bunch? I own fawn whippets, and fawn brindle whippets and blue fawn brindle whippets too, but I also own mahogany and red brindle and black brindle whippets and I love and adore and admire them all,(though I especially love blue fawn brindle and black brindles), irrespective of their colour.

But when I look at those 100 plus photos all I can say is boring, boring, boring and unrealistic beyond belief because the world of whippets is more than shades of fawn. For heavens sakes the foundation dogs of the whippet breed weren't even fawn, but they seem to have taken over the English universe in the years since.

My question: is the best whippet really being judged when the judges are known to have such a strong colour preference that only people who have their favoured colour dare enter? Someone in an earlier Crufts post said a lot of big names in England were not entered at Crufts this year and it is clear they were not and why would they be there. Would you spend the kind of money it takes to enter Crufts if you knew you would be left uncarded because your dogs would not pass the unwritten colour code? I'd stay home too.

This is a pity. Crufts is the greatest dog show in the world, despite all efforts by the Americans to claim Westminster is, and you end up with a breed that has only a portion of its top dogs entered because the coat colour doesn't jibe with the perceived preferences of the judges?

Isn't it time, wouldn't it really have been a show if whippets in all their forms and all their olours could have been exhibited and judged on the same basis -- conformation first and foremost? As a foreign visitor I would certainly have felt I saw the depth and breadth of English whippets if I had seen all the dogs who had gone to the top and earned CCs over the past year or two, instead of just a select slice of appropriately coloured dogs.

Only in England I say? Pity!

Lanny

Lanny

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I think it's interesting to talk about colour preferences, what do others think?? I went to crufts this year with my parents who showed Staffie's in the past. (largely dominated by blacks) My mum had never watched the Whippets before and she came away from the show and said that she thought i should definitely have a fawn for my new pup!! She didn't see one that was anything like Frankie's colouration, so now thinks no one will like him

 

[Avalonia]

[i think it's interesting to talk about colour preferences, what do others think??  I went to crufts this year with my parents who showed Staffie's in the past. (largely dominated by blacks) My mum had never watched the Whippets before and she came away from the show and said that she thought i should definitely have a fawn for my new pup!!  She didn't see one that was anything like Frankie's colouration, so now thinks no one will like him

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This abject colour preference is notable only in England. I am sorry if I left the impression that I fault the judges for this situation because I DO NOT. Judges can only judge the dogs that are presented to them on the day and in my view both Lucinda Aldrich-Blake and Betty Beaumont selected exactly as I would have given the entry they had. I should be honest and tell you that I know the Fullerton whippets quite well and consider Hotspur to be the second best whippet in England right now -- only second to his father whom I absolutely, totally adore. And I saw Bubbly Blonde being exhibited as a pup and rightly predicted her bright future. So do not misunderstand me here. I am not attacking judges, but I am questioning a system of assumptions and behaviour that I think merits change.

My concern is, ultimately, with a system that seems rigid and inflexible. People don't exhibit their dogs to judges presumed to be favourable only to fawns, or fawn people withhhold heir dogs from judges known to prefer dogs of the brindle persuasion.

Of course when the judges are confronted with only fawns then it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The same applies in the reverse. To say this is limiting and stupid is self-evident, so my question as a British born person now a citizen and foreigner resident elsewhere is why is it continuing more than 115 years after the breed has been accepted and awarded by the KC?

I would far rather that the people with black brindle and red brindle and mahogany brindle whippets showed their dogs in great numbers to the judges presumed to love only fawns and force them to acknowledge the variety of coaat colours in the breed and put up good examples, whatever their coat colour. And the reverse, so that judges would be confronted with the diversity of the breed and would be required to judge that diversity... as indeed I believe all good judges attempt to do.

Surely judges should be able and prepared to judge the dogs on the day and not just judge tose that only showed up on the day because people made assumptions, right or wrong about a judge's preferences. And surely they would be happier if this were the case and they were not forced to make a choice based on limited possibilities rather than the limited range offered to them.

If this were honestly done -- by exhibitors and judges -- it wouldn't take long for people to come to grips with the fact that the breed has to be judged as an entity, and not as a narrow shade of colouration.

I have to say that much of where I comes from comes from the fact that I lived for a crucial part of my childhood in the mid 1950s in the southern US where racial segregation was am anhorrent and harsh reality, and I learned as a child what it was like to see indivduals devalued for superficialities that had nothing to do with their qualities as human beings. I have, ever since bridled against segregation based on colour, race, religion or creed from that time forward, be it in people or in this case, in whippet dogs.

I would so love that the breeders of what are still the best whippets in the world, world -- in the United Kingdom -- would simply join the rest of the world in accepting that coat colour really is immaterial and put their whippets up for judging by all judges, whatever their coat colour. If this is too Pollyannaesque I am sorry, but I see continue to see this breed as a diverse breed, and not as one narrowly defined by coat colour.

If it is, then the alternative -- segregation of the breed based on coat colour -- as is done in some breeds around the world (witness the bull terrier in the US who was BIS at Westminster, who was a Coloured Bull Terrier) is perhaps something that should be considered. But in my view it is not something I view happily as a prospect for our much loved breed, the whippet.

Lanny

 

[nina]

Just to say, i entered my little red brindle girl at Crufts & many had a joke with me before judging that i would be one of the first turfed out of the ring, which i beleived in the end would probably be true.

I had never clapped eyes on the judge before but did as i always do "paid my money, took my chance" & from a class of 17 Special puppy bitches (many fawns) she won the class & took Best Opposite Sex puppy in breed.

Who say's dreams dont come true..........................

 

[aslan]

But when I look at those 100 plus photos all I can say is boring, boring, boring and unrealistic beyond belief because the world of whippets is more than shades of fawn.

I agree! Variety is the spice of life.

I wonder sometimes whether this why dogs from the same kennels seem to be the big winners in England. Is it because there are SO many fawns that it is hard to keep your concentration whilst judging and you just give it to the "safest" option - the easily identifiable handler from/for the kennel with the long standing reputation?

I fear that faced with over 200 fawn/fawn variation whippets I would find it very difficult to keep track and stay focussed. From my one visit as a spectator to a show in England where there were 240 whippets and 90-95% of them fawn, I find it very difficult to remember any of them, except the dog and bitch CC winners and a black parti and a blue parti.

Are judges scared to put up brightly coloured dogs because they fear the wrath of their colleagues and the legions of dedicated fawn exhibitors?

Breeders have a lot to do with the fawn phenomenon I feel. Years of petting out blacks, blues, whites, black brindles etc and leaving only the fawns (and its variations) as options for the show ring doesn't leave much option I'm afraid.

 

[chelynnah]

We have TONS of colour variation over here. On a different day you might have seen all dark brindles, or all blues....

I think there's a bit of self-fulfilling prophecy that goes on. Rumour goes round that Judge X only likes fawns, so you don't take your brindle under him. Main entry is fawn, well if that's mostly what he's presented with, then chances are that's mostly what he'll end up putting up. People didn't take their brindles, so how do you know that your really good brindle (or blue or black) wouldn't have been put up.

But because they now see that the majority were fawns that were put up it 'proves' that the judge is fawn biased.

This may or may not be true, but how can you prove it when 90% of the entry he was given was fawn.... GO with your other colours. Get them out there. You might be pleasantly surprised. I was once when I was told my brindle girl had NO chance and she got a third under a 'fawn judge' in a HUGE class at a CH show.

So........

I think we need to stop crying colour bias and give them good quality dogs in colours you don't think they'll like - give them a chance to prove they might do something differently than you expect. They can't do that if you're only giving them the colour they're rumoured to prefer.

Wendy

 

[Ridgesetter]

Excuse my laughter, but every so often I've heard here "don't keep a solid fawn, you won't win with it". (w00t)

Generally here in Oz one sees a wide variety of colours and markings and I don't think there is a dominance by any particular colour.

My first two bitches were fawns, and I could count on one hand the solid fawns I've had since then. I don't believe it's because of any colour bias but largely due to genetics and choices of sires.

 

[imperative]

fantastic pics,congrats,lovely dog

 

[JAX]

Lanny , Tell me how many solid coloured whippets you have in the US and Canada , not many I bet , when I went to the Westminster, in an enrty of 34 whippets there was but 1 fawn . the rest were all parti colours .

Ive enterd Libbee under `fawn` judges and been pleasantly surprised ,Even one judge commented ` I Bet that surprised you didnt it :- " ` , So if the judge goes in the ring thinking ` I only like fawns ` what is the exhibitor to think ?

The judges at Crufts this year, although they have been in the breed `a long time ` will place a` type` they like and usually its a fawn or black/blue . as you can see by the results.

Betty to my knowledge has not shown a whippet for at least 10 years . Someimes I dispair at the judges we have at Crufts , after all its our Premier show . But most of us enter just the same , but times I ask myself why ? when we wouldnt normally have given them an entry . :- "

heres Libbee so you can see she s not of the fawn brigade

 

[~JO~]

Having shown a solid fawn I know how hard it can be - believe me it is often very hard showing a solid fawn in a class of much flashier dogs...

I really can't believe some of the things you have both wrote - if a judge gets confused because it has a lot of fawn entries... WHAT??? How do you think judges in breeds such as dobermans or ridgebacks cope??? :wacko:

If the judge can't tell the difference between different fawns, they are not worth going under in my opinion - talk about not being able to look beyond the colour!

Believe me there are not that many solid fawn top winners in the UK...

Yes BOB at Crufts this year was, but BD was a brindle, Crufts 05 BOB was a brindle parti and BB was a white!!

Quite often it is rumoured that a judge only likes a particular colour - but to me it is not so much the colour as the 'type'. A lot of blues and a certain amount of fawns are very traditional type and more representative of the breed a couple of decades a go 'the old fashioned type' - this is what the judge wants it just happens that most dogs of this type come in those colours.... Of course I have made some generalisations here and it is only my opinion!

 

[fable]

I have to agree with Jo. I'm a real newcomer to the breed - and dog showing - and I only have one whippet (a fawn ), but I can see that there is a real difference in type - some whippets are a very different shape to others. To a certain extent this difference does seem to go with different colours. I would certainly hope that an experienced judge didn't think that a ringfull of fawn whippets were all the same.

 

[chelynnah]

Having shown a solid fawn I know how hard it can be - believe me it is often very hard showing a solid fawn in a class of much flashier dogs...
I really can't believe some of the things you have both wrote - if a judge gets confused because it has a lot of fawn entries... WHAT???  How do you think judges in breeds such as dobermans or ridgebacks cope???  :wacko:

Excellent point - even more to the point what about Westies!! Or a solid colour COATED breed where you can't 'see' the body through the hair when they're stacked. :blink:

Wendy

 

[dolly]

(w00t) AT THE END OF DAY, A JUDGE CANNOT ONLY PUT UP WHAT HE OR SHE HAS IN FRONT OF THEM, WHETHER, FAWN, BLUE, BLACK, BRINDLE ETC (w00t)

 

[aslan]

I really can't believe some of the things you have both wrote - if a judge gets confused because it has a lot of fawn entries... WHAT???  How do you think judges in breeds such as dobermans or ridgebacks cope???  :wacko:

Excellent point - even more to the point what about Westies!! Or a solid colour COATED breed where you can't 'see' the body through the hair when they're stacked. :blink:

Wendy

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I didn't say I would find it impossible - I said I would find it difficult to keep my concentration. I think it would be the same judging 200+ Dobes or Westies. C'mon - you've got to admit it - how many times have you heard someone say the judge seemed to lose the plot half way through the breed at a specialty, or the judge seemed to like the dog at the beginning of the class but then seemed to "lose" him and he went unplaced? I even heard an experienced breed judge herself say that she "lost" a certain dog in a class at a specialty - that was after judging half the class but not placing any and sending them out, then judging the other half and bringing the first half back in, then making her placings. I reckon I would have to roughly place dogs as I went through in order not to forget one. Judges are not super humans you know!

But in a breed which has so much variation in colour allowed I would find it boring to be presented with 200+ fawns (in all its variations including brindled fawns) - same as I would find it boring to be presented with 200+ blacks (although I would think it was heaven at first! ) I would want to be presented with a broad spectrum of colour and type. At least if you were going to judge a Dobe Specialty you'd KNOW and EXPECT that 90% of them would be black and tan.

 

[Avalonia]

Fawn whippets are a definite minority in North America where particolours rule, but there are a number of Canadian and American breeders who produce excellent fawns and do extraordinarily well with them. There are also some really excellent blacks in the United States -- but most solid coloured dogs in either the US or Canada are solid brindles. Red and white particolours do well in the US, as do the ubiquitous prototype of the American whippet, the true brindle and white particolour in the varying shades of brindle that are available.

Our our dogs range from a solid white with two black tipped ears (daugher of Eng.Cdn.Ch. Nevedith Ceefa Ceely, a fawn and white), several solid fawns, and the rest are Irish marked brindles or particoloured brindles. We have just had a litter of one puppy who is a solid blue fawn brindle with white toe tips and chest but nothing except the thinnest white line on his face. I just like the endless mix you can get with whippet coat colours and think it is a pity some people cannot see beyond a single portion of the colour spectrum.

One of my new favourite colours recently is that exhibited in the attached picture which features my son Mick, who is breeder of all Avalonia whippets, holding Avalonia Across the Universe (Dan), our four month old pick of litter male sired by Fin.Swed.Cdn.Ch. Scheik's Ardbeg Avalonia (from whom he gets that gorgeous red coat colour) x Cdn.Ch. Avalonia Wispa Jesta.

 

[JAX]

handsome ( dog not handler .not that hes not handsome , but I prefer the dog ) :lol:

See what you mean Lanny