Cryptorchism

[jok]

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I don't have any first hand experience of this, however, i was chatting about it to a trusted vet.

Apparently the risk of testicular cancer in a dog with a retained testicle is only about 15% greater than the chance of a dog with 'normal' testicles getting it. Bear in mind that instances of testicular cancer are not particularly common, so really the chances are pretty small. As someone else said, the chance doesn't increase until the dog gets older. I personally wouldn't feel rushed into an operation at a young age, i would feel happy to wait until 18months plus. You never know, they could still appear or be popped down quite easily depending on their position :lol:

Try not to worry, im sure Kiplin will be just fine :huggles:

 

[05whippet]

I have no first hand experience of this either,but it does seem very prevalent in Whippets for some reason?

But it seems I am the only one who is of the other belief,I would do the operation earlier rather than later as I don't see any difference in any animal being speyed or neutered before or after maturity,this is from my own experiences with our cats,dogs and horses, in fact with colts we geld them early on BEFORE they get the "stallion traits" from the hormones,I also do this early with tom cats as it stops them spraying if caught early enough,we neuter of spey any of our animals that are not either being shown or bred from as I feel it is easier both for us and the animal in question.But as I said this is just from my own experiences and maybe we have just been lucky over the years?

 

[jok]

I have no first hand experience of this either,but it does seem very prevalent in Whippets for some reason?
But it seems I am the only one who is of the other belief,I would do the operation earlier rather than later as I don't see any difference in any animal being speyed or neutered before or after maturity,this is from my own experiences with our cats,dogs and horses, in fact with colts we geld them early on BEFORE they get the "stallion traits" from the hormones,I also do this early with tom cats as it stops them spraying if caught early enough,we neuter of spey any of our animals that are not either being shown or bred from as I feel it is easier both for us and the animal in question.But as I said this is just from my own experiences and maybe we have just been lucky over the years?

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Interesting point about having horses gelded. You've reminded me that i had a pony with an undescended testicle. I am of the same opinion as you when it comes to horses and also cats. I suppose there is other points to consider, like cats need to be 'done' asap before they start multiplying :lol: , obviously this can be controlled with dogs!

 

[~elizabeth~]

You never know, they could still appear or be popped down quite easily depending on their position

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Don't the inguinal rings close at some point (most sources say 6 months), so if they are higher in the abdomen there will be no chance that they can descend after this?

Can't find it now, think it might have been in peddie racing, but there was an interesting thread a while back that said they can be quite uncomfortable for the dog depending where they are. >_<

15% may not seem a big risk, but it is still a risk and I wouldn't personally want to risk being unlucky if it was my dog; someone on here did find cancerous growths that had spread in a young dog, so it can happen. Don't rush into anything, but go on the advice of your vet once he has examined Kiplin.

:luck: and :huggles: to Kiplin

 

[Seraphina]

I have no first hand experience of this either,but it does seem very prevalent in Whippets for some reason?
But it seems I am the only one who is of the other belief,I would do the operation earlier rather than later as I don't see any difference in any animal being speyed or neutered before or after maturity,this is from my own experiences with our cats,dogs and horses, in fact with colts we geld them early on BEFORE they get the "stallion traits" from the hormones,I also do this early with tom cats as it stops them spraying if caught early enough,we neuter of spey any of our animals that are not either being shown or bred from as I feel it is easier both for us and the animal in question.But as I said this is just from my own experiences and maybe we have just been lucky over the years?

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Yes, but with horses it is imperative that you stop the stallion behaviour in him or he could be difficult to ride. I used to wait with castration of male my cats until about 6-9 months and none of them sprayed. The only one who became absolutely disgusting sprayer was the one I had castrated at 3 months.

I do not believe in in desexing young puppies, but the reason for recomending to wait in the case of cryptorchid is that castrating cryptorchid is a difficult major op, if they cannot find them they may have to open him from his groin to his ribcage, and toss around all his insides to make sure they did not miss it. Considering that the risk of cancer in undescended teticles is really very small , and usually occurs after the dog is 6, why not wait. There were many people here on k9 saying that they had a dog who dropped them when adult. Why put a dog through an intrusive surgical procedure if there is a chance his testicles may descend and he can be than castrated in simple op? While his testicles are inside his body he is infertile, as sperm cannot survive at that temparature. And anybody who experienced an abdominal surgury knows how painful it is for days afterwards.

 

[jezza]

I have no first hand experience of this either,but it does seem very prevalent in Whippets for some reason?
But it seems I am the only one who is of the other belief,I would do the operation earlier rather than later as I don't see any difference in any animal being speyed or neutered before or after maturity,this is from my own experiences with our cats,dogs and horses, in fact with colts we geld them early on BEFORE they get the "stallion traits" from the hormones,I also do this early with tom cats as it stops them spraying if caught early enough,we neuter of spey any of our animals that are not either being shown or bred from as I feel it is easier both for us and the animal in question.But as I said this is just from my own experiences and maybe we have just been lucky over the years?

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My vet suggested waiting until Lenny was at least 9-12 months but anything up to 2 was ok. After 2 the risks start to increase. The reason she gave to wait was because there is a chance that they could drop to lower down in the abdomen, making the operation, easier and less invasive as they might not have to 'search' for them so much.

I have taken the advice of my vet because she is the one who will be operating and if it makes the job easier for her its got to be a good thing :thumbsup:

Lenny still hasn't had the op yet, he will be 2 in feb.

 

[jok]

You never know, they could still appear or be popped down quite easily depending on their position

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Don't the inguinal rings close at some point (most sources say 6 months), so if they are higher in the abdomen there will be no chance that they can descend after this?

Can't find it now, think it might have been in peddie racing, but there was an interesting thread a while back that said they can be quite uncomfortable for the dog depending where they are. >_<

15% may not seem a big risk, but it is still a risk and I wouldn't personally want to risk being unlucky if it was my dog; someone on here did find cancerous growths that had spread in a young dog, so it can happen. Don't rush into anything, but go on the advice of your vet once he has examined Kiplin.

:luck: and :huggles: to Kiplin

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I didn't say the risk was 15% (which personally i think is very high) - i said that it was 15% higher than a dog with two normal testicles. :thumbsup:

 

[Macha]

I think the risk of problems is probably higher in a dog whose retained testes are high up in the abdomen than in the cases where you can easily locate the testicle/s. But I would go along with those who say to wait until your dog is mature before putting him through the operation.

 

[~elizabeth~]

I didn't say the risk was 15% (which personally i think is very high) - i said that it was 15% higher than a dog with two normal testicles. :thumbsup:

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An increase of 12% where the underlying rate is almost zero IS a significant increase.

The percentage in question seems to derive from a paper "A cohort study of canine testicular neoplasia", where it is calculated as 12.7 cases per 1000 dog years, but it isn't clear from precisely what the overall percentages are from this. The data seems to have been derived from younger dogs. It also says : "Testicular neoplasms did not develop in controls. A large proportion of the dogs were below the average age at onset for this neoplasm."

A cohort study of canine testicular neoplasia

Epidemiologic Studies of Risk Factors for Cancer in Pet Dogs

Testicular cancer

Several case-control studies (33-36) and one prospective

cohort study (37) have reported that dogs with

cryptorchidism have a markedly elevated risk for testicular

seminomas and Sertoli cell tumors. The tumors

tend to develop at a younger age in the cryptorchid

dogs than in other dogs (37). In humans, estimated

relative risks for testicular cancer among men with

cryptorchidism have ranged from 2.5 to 11.4 (38).

http://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/20/2/204.pdf

Actually the risk seems higher in dogs with non-abdominal, single retensions, re. the above article:

"The incidence of Sertoli cell tumors and seminoma was approximately twice as high in dogs with unilaterally retained inguinal testicles as in abdominal cryptorchids"

Yes, the risk is lower in youger dogs, and it is probably as well to wait until a dog is physically mature before a major operation, but it isn't something that should be left indefinitley.

 

[Milo-Quin]

Iv got a 1 yr old non ped whippet. His testicles are in his groin. Have seen three good vets have all said the same if we dont want his testicles removed they can stay where they are . His descented testicles dont bother him when he runs so he can still race also was told hes better with his testosterone for raceing. The cancer thing ihave a 10 and 12 yr old Lurchers and there testicles are ok . Will be leaving the whippets testicles were theyare and have them cheked every year for cancer. these are just my opinons and what i want to do everybody else to there own.

 

[Trish]

Iv got a 1 yr old non ped whippet. His testicles are in his groin. Have seen three good vets have all said the same if we dont want his testicles removed they can stay where they are . His descented testicles dont bother him when he runs so he can still race also was told hes better with his testosterone for raceing. The cancer thing ihave a 10 and 12 yr old Lurchers and there testicles are ok . Will be leaving the whippets testicles were theyare and have them cheked every year for cancer. these are just my opinons and what i want to do everybody else to there own.

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now thats a good point,but can you tell me how they test that they are not cancerous,is it a blood test once a year.

 

[Paula Roberts]

Our vet is the same and will not operate unless absolutly nesesary, a bloke we knew years ago had his dog done and it died under the anesthetic, he had 2 more and they both were racing champions and lived to a ripe old age, with only 1 testicle. :luck: with Kiplin Trish.

 

[Milo-Quin]

Iv got a 1 yr old non ped whippet. His testicles are in his groin. Have seen three good vets have all said the same if we dont want his testicles removed they can stay where they are . His descented testicles dont bother him when he runs so he can still race also was told hes better with his testosterone for raceing. The cancer thing ihave a 10 and 12 yr old Lurchers and there testicles are ok . Will be leaving the whippets testicles were theyare and have them cheked every year for cancer. these are just my opinons and what i want to do everybody else to there own.

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now thats a good point,but can you tell me how they test that they are not cancerous,is it a blood test once a year.

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Dont know vet never said how they look for cancer in the testicle. If you find out let me know .

 

[»Tina«]

both parents can be carriers of this gene, your dog with his 2 retained testicals will be sterile too, and also any litter brothers or sisters will have this gene too!

have a read in the FAQ section theres plenty of infomation on this condition there

good luck :luck:

 

[Trish]

both parents can be carriers of this gene, your dog with his 2 retained testicals will be sterile too, and also any litter brothers or sisters will have this gene too!
have a read in the FAQ section theres plenty of infomation on this condition there 

good luck  :luck:

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thanks will take a look :thumbsup:

 

[Seraphina]

Don't the inguinal rings close at some point (most sources say 6 months), so if they are higher in the abdomen there will be no chance that they can descend after this?

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I have read that somewhere too, but that is one of the mysteries, they do not seem to do that in some cases. I guess when the whole complicted thing of development and descent of testicles get out of whack, nobody knows when what occurs.

 

[Seraphina]

An increase of 12% where the underlying rate is almost zero IS a significant increase.
The percentage in question seems to derive from a paper "A cohort study of canine testicular neoplasia", where it is calculated as 12.7 cases per 1000 dog years, but it isn't clear from precisely what the overall percentages are from this.

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I am bit cautious about looking at these USA studies. To start with the dogs were not Whippets, the Swedish study of Whippets, done over many years, shown almost 0 risk.

In the USA there is a big push for desexing, and one of the angle is that unless you desex and desex young, your dog will certainly die of cancer of testicles or ovaries, prostate or mammary cancer. There are heaps of studies making these claims, which are quite misleading, from discussions on American forums it seems that they do have lot of cancers in their dogs anyway, all desexed and some young. Just recently there were 2 cases of prostate cancer in very young and early-desexed dogs being discussed.

I am not sure how aggressive is a testicular cancer in dogs, that is a question to ask the vet, but I would assume that to wait till he is about 2 would not pose a risk, as it takes a time for cancer to develop.

 

[doris]

Kip, your poor mum's head must be spinning with all this advice!! :wacko:

 

[Trish]

Kip, your poor mum's head must be spinning with all this advice!! :wacko:

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tell me about it,and ive still got to hear what the vet as to say when we go for his 6 months assesment :blink:

dont think im going to do anything until he is at least 2 years old, and i will be asking the vet about testicular cancer and how aggressive it can be, thanks for that advice seraphina :thumbsup:

would like to thank everyone who have kindly given me their experiences and advice it is much appreciated and i dont know what i would do without you. thankyou all :thumbsup:

 

[J.T.]

When Rafferty was about 6 months old we realised he only had one testicle & the vet advised castration. We were going to have him done anyway at some point so he was done then. It turned out that the other testicle was still in his abdomen & had ligament wrapped round it so would never have descended naturally.

Not wanting to worry you Trish but he was quite poorly after the op, he was obviously in pain even though he had a painkiller after the op. I had to take him back the next day for another one. He also had what looked like a fit coming out of the aenasthetic, apparently it could have been a reaction to ketamine.

It was a much bigger op than a regular castrate, more like a spay as they had to go into his abdomen but he was fine after a couple of days :thumbsup:

Hope this hasn't worried you, good luck with Kiplin, hopefully it'll drop by itself :- "