Discussion On Rehoming Show Dogs

[nina]

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I think as people have said before we all have different opinions & views on our dogs.

Whilst someone has said "its none of our business"...............well thats VERY true, BUT HEY post on a public forum & i guess you can expect to get answers: ie peoples opinions & views etc. :- "

I dont think anyone is trying to say that it is a case of cruelty to re-home a dog at all BUT i think what this subject is highlighting is:

a) How some people consider their dogs pets first & foremost & no matter what happens show wise their dogs are loved for who they are NOT what they win.

b) How some people consider their dogs a show prospect only & if they dont win or show to their satisfaction then they are moved on to make way for another.

I dont think people are saying they find point b a case of cruelty BUT just not for them which is fine & if the dog is found a loving caring home it's down to the owner NOT anyone else. :thumbsup:

Whilst i take on board peoples excuses about "not having enough space" or "only being able to keep a certain number of dogs because of their situation"

I PERSONALLY would rather NOT keep breeding then or buying in dogs only to have to keep re-homing them BUT this is just MY opinion & i appreciate NOT everyone else's.

Personally to me, showing ISN'T the be all & end all of it all, if my dogs end up good enough & win, hey great, if they dont, so what, there are fun companion shows, great racing days to be enjoyed by all.

Just a personal observation to me after 25 years in dogs is:

Those that continually breed &/or buy in dogs always striving for something better .....................................will forever breed &/or buy in dogs with little success.

Quantity has never & will never equal quality :- "

I do however wish anyone lots of luck :luck: :luck: with rehoming their dog as it is their perogative :huggles:

 

[phill]

Sorry,I still don't understand why you would want to get rid of a dog just because it won't show? :blink: It is taken way too seriously :- "

It seems a some of these "show" dogs are treated as commodities,Rather than a loved pet

I'll wait for the knives.......... :- "

 

[phill]

"b) How some people consider their dogs a show prospect only & if they dont win or show to their satisfaction then they are moved on to make way for another."

I find this cruel......Probley just me though :blink:

 

[kris]

if a dog lives in the home has lots of attention,gets its walkies etc etc then when it goes to a show its not that big a deal.think about it .if you were stuck in a kennel for hours on end and probalby only got taken out for  a bit of exercise or to go to a show wouldnt you be alert and interested in everything when you go there?

This is the part of your 'sweeping statement' that I don't agree with.

As for having a veteran still showing, I didn't make a big deal of this, it was to support the fact that a house dog along side a kennel dog could enjoy showing.

You started you statement as a comment about one dog, you then generalise this by asking us to think about your theory.

'Utter rubbish' is an uncalled for harsh remark sorry about that, however I still don't agree with your theory.

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this isnt a theory its an observation based on evidence seen with my own eyes.i never said a house dog couldnt enjoy showing same as a kennel dog so the analogy doesnt make sense.some dogs enjoy showing some dont.a show is a day out for any dog whether kennel or house pet,its a time to spend interacting with humans and other dogs and is a refreshing change for a lot of dogs and an enjoyable day out.ive handled and trained many dogs in my lifetime,some as house dogs some were kennel dogs.what im saying is that surely you dont think that a kennel dog is as stimulated spending the greater part of its day and night in a kennel and run with a monotonous existence as a dog that spends the greater part of its day interacting with its human owners and other canine companions?maybe im not putting this in a comprehensible way but im basing my statement(and i still stand by it despite the fact you disagree!)on my experiences and talking to other people who have had similar experiences.

anyway,thankyou for having the good graces to apologise,well agree to disagree!

 

[aslan]

I dont think anyone is trying to say that it is a case of cruelty to re-home a dog at all BUT i think what this subject is highlighting is:
a) How some people consider their dogs pets first & foremost & no matter what happens show wise their dogs are loved for who they are NOT what they win.

b) How some people consider their dogs a show prospect only & if they dont win or show to their satisfaction then they are moved on to make way for another.

Whilst i take on board peoples excuses about "not having enough space" or "only being able to keep a certain number of dogs because of their situation"

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It's all a matter of perspective. As a breeder when I sell a puppy to a pet home - I get annoyed when people ring me up wanting to re-home the dog because "it chewed my shoes" or some other lame excuse.

As a pet home you are making a commitment to that dog for life. As a breeder you are making a commitment to breed to improve on what you've got, find good forever homes for your pet dogs and be a good forever home to your show dogs.

Showing is my life and I do strive to improve my stock with each litter - that is written in the code of ethics of dog exhibition - the aim is to improve the breed - I think in any country - (and before we get onto the discussion about the semantics of the phrase "improve the breed" as has been done in a previous thread, let's just say we know what it means).

Whilst there are many serious breeders (and yes, it is 'serious', if you're not serious about breeding then don't do it) - there are not many of them who have the facilities to keep every dog that is not good enough for showing or that doesn't like to show.

There are some big breeders who breed a number of litters per year and have kennels to shove puppies into that they can't sell straight away or dogs that don't like/are not good enough for showing. Does that make them better than the person who does not have the room to do this and so makes an effort to find a good home for the dog?

I only breed a litter when I have the space to keep one for myself or when I have enough pre-orders to justify it.

As I said before showing is my thing - I don't do anything else with my dogs - we don't do agility or obedience, we don't go coursing or racing, so if I keep a puppy from a litter and it doesn't like to show or doesn't shape up good enough to show - then it won't have much fun living with me because that is our hobby and I dont' have time (or the desire) to get involved in other pursuits. So it is better that I find that dog a home where he can go and do other things. It is best for the dog and it is best for me and if you think I don't love them and can and will pass them on easily then you are very wrong. They stay with me until I can find what I believe to be the best home for them. And I don't get another one until I have the space. I love every one of my dogs and they are spoilt, they live in the house and are allowed on the furniture etc, but I have a maximum that I can own. And that maximum is so that I can give each and every dog the love & attention it deserves and the very best of care.

I had a dog called Otto that I sold as a puppy (along with another) to a show home. The owner told me when he was 10 months that he wasn't bonding with her. I took him back - I showed him for a while and whilst he enjoyed it, he hadn't grown up to be show quality and he didn't really enjoy travelling the distances we do. I knew that I had to find him a home that could offer him the things he needed. However - I waited 6 years for the right home to come along. And I cried for days after I let him go. Whilst I loved him dearly - and that's why I wouldn't part with him to just anyone - he now has a much better life (for him) than what he had here - he does things that weren't available here. He goes for daily walks around Melbourne with his new 9 year old girlfriend, he goes to doggy birthday parties, he goes for "pupaccinos" at the observatory. He does all the things that the right pet home could offer him.

If showing isn't important to you and breeding is not something you've poured your life into then you can happily keep a dog that is not interested or not good enough for showing and go and do something else with it.

If the dogs themselves are not important to you then you can happily keep every dog that doesn't turn out for showing - shove it in a kennel for life and never give it another thought.

And as for this point -

Those that continually breed &/or buy in dogs always striving for something better .....................................will forever breed &/or buy in dogs with little success.

I'm afraid you're wrong. And you've been proven wrong time and again by serious show people the world over. Almost all the top kennels in the world got to where they are by 'striving for something better', buying in/or using good dogs to breed with and breeding selectively with forethought, study of and a good knowledge of the breed, keeping the best to go on with and selling'giving their pets to good pet homes.

If the word "continually" is insinuating 'many more times than they should' and "always striving for something better" means that they're not doing their study and are just buying and breeding willy nilly without ever really knowing what a "better" dog is - then you're right.

 

[nina]

And as for this point -

Those that continually breed &/or buy in dogs always striving for something better .....................................will forever breed &/or buy in dogs with little success.

I'm afraid you're wrong. And you've been proven wrong time and again by serious show people the world over. Almost all the top kennels in the world got to where they are by 'striving for something better', buying in/or using good dogs to breed with and breeding selectively with forethought, study of and a good knowledge of the breed, keeping the best to go on with and selling'giving their pets to good pet homes.

If the word "continually" is insinuating 'many more times than they should' and "always striving for something better" means that they're not doing their study and are just buying and breeding willy nilly without ever really knowing what a "better" dog is - then you're right.

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Well that is your opinion & obviously you are entitled to that BUT in my opinion NO i am NOT wrong.

I think you are missing my point, i am NOT talking about TOP kennels who have their very well thought out structured breeding plans & breed seriously & carefully when they want a pup for themselves & have built their own line of as close to the standard as possible dogs of their chosen breed obviously not all those that make the grade will go to pet homes.

I am talking about the kind of people & unfortunately they are in all breeds who put absolutely NO thought in to what they are doing what so ever. They rush out to buy the current available pup by the latest Ch as it has to be a winner if it was sired by a CH.

This doesn't turn out so they rush back to mate their bitch to that same latest CH (no thought as to whether they actually tie in or not??) but hey its the latest Ch.

They run on a couple of pups, win a few classes but then Joe Bloggs has just mated his Ch bitch & they just have to have a pup, so out go their current show prospects to make way for the exciting new pup. This cycle goes on & on & they never normally keep anything beyond a year or so old!!

I have seen these sort of people in every breed & they are not what we call serious breeders who own top kennels & produce consistent quality, they are people who jump on the band wagon at any opportunity but NEVER really have any real success.

And the point i was trying to make was & still stand by is:

a) If you are a serious breeder & showing & breeding is your be all & end all then you do not think of your dogs as pets first & show prospects secondly that has been proven no matter how upset you are when rehoming YOU WILL STILL REHOME to make room for another show prospect.

b) If showing isnt the be all & end all you will keep your dogs as pets no matter what win or lose.

These are just plain simple facts not out to blacken anyone as i have said before we all have different views & different idea's, and it is each to their own :thumbsup:

 

[05whippet]

I definitley agree with the above.....I am sorry if this offends anyone BUT I just cannot get my head around how anyone can "rehome" a dog JUST because it has served it's purpose and is now basically for want of another phrase "in the way"...and before you all jump down my throat I am referring to what Nina was talking about,the people who keep a dog for barely a year or so before passing it off to get another because the said dog was not winning enough or did'nt make the grade,or worse still they have made the dog up into a Ch and need the space now for a puppy to bring on!!!! And I know an alarmingly large amount of people who do just this!

I am quite aware of the fact that not everyone has the capacity to keep a lot of dogs BUT then my views on this are (and they are just MY views and opinions) don't breed anymore until you have the space again.

I can see what you are saying Lana about the dog being happier somewhere else,but I just could'nt do it,I could'nt live with myself. My dogs are my life along with my horses and no matter whether they show or not and I have dogs here who have never been in the ring and never will be but here is where they will remain until their dying day and that is the way we have done it for years.To Ryan (my OH) and I our dogs are our family and they also like yours live in our home but unless there was an agression problem between the dogs or similar neither of us could ever rehome any of them.

As Nina said each to their own. :thumbsup:

 

[Nicola]

And the point i was trying to make was & still stand by is:
a) If you are a serious breeder & showing & breeding is your be all & end all then you do not think of your dogs as pets first & show prospects secondly that has been proven no matter how upset you are when rehoming YOU WILL STILL REHOME to make room for another show prospect.

b) If showing isnt the be all & end all you will keep your dogs as pets no matter what win or lose.

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Nothing in life is ever that black and white.

Even if showing isn't the be all and end all, the liklihood is that these breeders will still have more dogs than the average pet family, and if one dog isn't making the grade, and perhaps isn't fitting in with the pack either or the bonding just isn't as strong as with other dogs in the group, then I can't see any harm in finding a pet home for it, where chances are it will have more one to one attention. There are a lot of people/families who would very happily take on an older, grown up whippet (in fact there's probably a waiting list!) and I don't think we should make breeders feel bad about their decision or make it taboo. I'm sure they'd do all the necessary homechecks and wait for the right home. Most dogs do settle into their new homes well and I think there have been a number of instances on K9 where we've seen a breeder let a dog that has been 'run on' go, and it has found a lovely new home.

 

[nina]

Nothing in life is ever that black and white.
Even if showing isn't the be all and end all, the liklihood is that these breeders will still have more dogs than the average pet family, and if one dog isn't making the grade, and perhaps isn't fitting in with the pack either or the bonding just isn't as strong as with other dogs in the group, then I can't see any harm in finding a pet home for it, where chances are it will have more one to one attention. There are a lot of people/families who would very happily take on an older, grown up whippet (in fact there's probably a waiting list!) and I don't think we should make breeders feel bad about their decision or make it taboo. I'm sure they'd do all the necessary homechecks and wait for the right home. Most dogs do settle into their new homes well and I think there have been a number of instances on K9 where we've seen a breeder let a dog that has been 'run on' go, and it has found a lovely new home.

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BUT THATS MY POINT (w00t)

I'm not saying anyone should feel bad OR should they be blackened in any way.

If thats your thing & you are happy with it, its your perogative. :thumbsup:

I was merely stating the obvious, the difference between people & their views on their dogs. :blink:

Its not for ME to say which is right or wrong, again each to their own :thumbsup:

 

[chelynnah]

Sorry,I still don't understand why you would want to get rid of a dog just because it won't show?   :blink:   It is taken way too seriously :- "
It seems a some of these "show" dogs are treated as commodities,Rather than a loved pet

I'll wait for the knives..........  :- "

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It's as much for what is best for the dog as anything else. It can be hard to wrap your mind around. I totally understand where you're coming from, but I also understand the other side of it.

If the dog isn't happy as a showdog, that doesnt' mean the owner doesn't love it, and it doesn't break their heart at the thought of letting it go, but knowing the dog it may be that overall it will be happier as part of a smaller household with more individual attention than in a home where it is now just part of a larger pack. There are dogs that thrive as part of a large pack and who love to show, and there are dogs who would rather be the centre of one person's universe, and rehoming them to a place where they can thrive may be what is best for them.

Wendy

 

[05whippet]

I think the point trying to be made here...well it is in MY case anyway,is the fact that some people are quite willing to rehome or pass on dogs and THE ONLY reason behind it being that they are'nt happy in the ring or have'nt made the "grade",it has nothing to do with the dog being aggressive towards their other dogs or unhappy in the pack or just not bonding..it is SOLELY because the dog either does'nt like showing or has not made it and therefore is technically a "passenger" taking up space that could be filled by a dog who DOES like showing.....plain and simple! and this is what I personally cannot fathom and if I am reading some of the above posts correctly is exactly what both Nina and Phill have a problem understanding too!!

But as stressed before....it is up to the individual and no-one is being "got at" or having their name blackened,it is just something that some people obviously can do and others like myself could'nt!

 

[aslan]

Nina - I didn't miss your point, I actually found it quite well - you're explanation of your disagreement with me actually agrees with me!

If the word "continually" is insinuating 'many more times than they should' and "always striving for something better" means that they're not doing their study and are just buying and breeding willy nilly without ever really knowing what a "better" dog is - then you're right.

Aslan.

I am talking about the kind of people & unfortunately they are in all breeds who put absolutely NO thought in to what they are doing what so ever. They rush out to buy the current available pup by the latest Ch as it has to be a winner if it was sired by a CHetc etc

I have seen these sort of people in every breed & they are not what we call serious breeders who own top kennels & produce consistent quality, they are people who jump on the band wagon at any opportunity but NEVER really have any real success.

Nina.
And even though you say that you are not casting aspersions on breeders who re-home dogs, you do imply (through (a) and (b) in your first post) that we are not as good as the people who will keep a dog as a pet if showing doesn't work out and "love them for who they are" "no matter what". You are implying that we love them less if they don't work out as a show dog.

Phill thinks we are cruel to re-home and that our dogs are treated as commodities. I believe there are people who do manage their dogs as commodities - breed a lot, sell a lot, re-home a lot, keep a lot, show a lot - without ever really being attached to any of them. But I wanted to say that not every breeder, because they choose to re-home at some stage, falls into that category. I only re-home if I think the new home can offer a better life for that particular dog than I can.

People like Phill may think that I was cruel to re-home Otto, for example, but I think it was the best thing I ever did for him. I didn't love him any less because he wasn't a show dog. But because I loved him I found him a home with someone who would love him as much as I do and where he could do other fun "pet things" instead of going to shows. Even though he lived in the house and slept in my bed, was kissed and cuddled, spoilt with treats, played ball and catch the teddy etc, keeping him here with me and dragging him out to shows with the others when he didn't even get to go in the ring unless a child took him in junior handlers wasn't much fun for him.

 

[nina]

And even though you say that you are not casting aspersions on breeders who re-home dogs, you do imply (through (a) and (b) in your first post) that we are not as good as the people who will keep a dog as a pet if showing doesn't work out and "love them for who they are" "no matter what". You are implying that we love them less if they don't work out as a show dog. Phill thinks we are cruel to re-home and that our dogs are treated as commodities.  I believe there are people who do manage their dogs as commodities - breed a lot, sell a lot, re-home a lot, keep a lot, show a lot - without ever really being attached to any of them.  But I wanted to say that not every breeder, because they choose to re-home at some stage, falls into that category.  I only re-home if I think the new home can offer a better life for that particular dog than I can. 

People like Phill may think that I was cruel to re-home Otto, for example, but I think it was the best thing I ever did for him.  I didn't love him any less because he wasn't a show dog.  But because I loved him I found him a home with someone who would love him as much as I do and where he could do other fun "pet things" instead of going to shows.  Even though he lived in the house and slept in my bed, was kissed and cuddled, spoilt with treats, played ball and catch the teddy etc, keeping him here with me and dragging him out to shows with the others when he didn't even get to go in the ring unless a child took him in junior handlers wasn't much fun for him.

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Lana, i was neither "implying" anything OR trying to cast "aspersions". What you choose to read into my posts i'm afraid i have NO control over

Again i will reiterate it is NOT for me to judge, i am NOT condemning others for something i simply do not choose to do i was simply stating a fact as I see it. As we all have different views i realise others obviously do NOT see it that way & i fully appreciate that.

I think Pamela (05 Whippet) has summed it up perfectly in her last post, maybe you should read that :thumbsup:

If a person is happy with their actions & fully beleives all that they do is for the best for their dogs then i dont understand why they should feel bad in any way? :blink:

I certainly dont :thumbsup:

 

[05whippet]

Hmmmm....we seem to be going around in circles here!

Nina is NOT talking about people who very occasionally find themselves in the situation where they feel it is in the dogs best interest to be rehomed...and I can honestly say that I know this is what she is referring to as I know her very well!....she is talking about, as am I people who rehome the dog only for the reason being that it does not like the ring...I have said this in my above post.

There is a huge difference in the person who feels that for the dog it would be best if it were in a different home for whatever reason BUT not just for the fact that it won't show AND the person who rehomes their "surplus" to make room for the keeper or keepers from the litters that they just keep on breeding one after the other with no thought of what goes with what or even knows what they are likely to get in the litter other than the fact that the Sire is a Ch and flavour of the month at that particular time...and it is this person or persons that Nina and I are talking about.

Lets face it..I am sure that we all know of people like that,who are sooo caught up in winning and having a current Ch that they have totally lost sight of the fact that these are living,breathing animals with feelings and at the end of the day.....it is only a dog show for goodness sake,lets keep it in perspective!! I actually know a couple of people who have admitted that they look around to find obscure breeds that there are'nt many people "in" just so that they stand a better chance of winning! And YES! they are the same sort of people who "offload" the dog if it becomes a passenger!!!!

 

[doris]

....it is only a dog show for goodness sake,lets keep it in perspective!!

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OMG! It might only be a dog show to you, but to me its a lovely day out, meeting my doggy (not dodgy!! ) friends, sampling the delights (or disasters :- " :x ) of the catering, and hopefully finding something to buy that I just cannot resist :lol: :lol: Oh yeah, and prancing around a ring for a few expensive minutes, just to get chucked out in the first cut :- "

but in my defence, I'm not a serious breeder or shower, I'm just a pet dog owner

IMO I think its each to their own, as long as a dog is well cared for and is happy, who cares what anyone else thinks - after all, we have to live with what we decide to do :thumbsup: And no, dogs aint people, the don't think like us - if they did mine would have re-homed me ages ago :lol: :lol:

 

[05whippet]

....it is only a dog show for goodness sake,lets keep it in perspective!!

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OMG! It might only be a dog show to you, but to me its a lovely day out, meeting my doggy (not dodgy!! ) friends, sampling the delights (or disasters :- " :x ) of the catering, and hopefully finding something to buy that I just cannot resist :lol: :lol: Oh yeah, and prancing around a ring for a few expensive minutes, just to get chucked out in the first cut :- "

but in my defence, I'm not a serious breeder or shower, I'm just a pet dog owner

IMO I think its each to their own, as long as a dog is well cared for and is happy, who cares what anyone else thinks - after all, we have to live with what we decide to do :thumbsup: And no, dogs aint people, the don't think like us - if they did mine would have re-homed me ages ago :lol: :lol:

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Yes Alison...it is a lovely day out and that is one of the many reasons why I do show....as I did with the horses,I have a lot of good friends who I meet and have a laugh with BUT it is still a dog show...there is no getting away from that! It's not a life or death situation,which is what I meant by my original statement!! :lol: :lol:

 

[phill]

Hit the nail on the head, 05whippet. :thumbsup:

I have been to watch quite a few shows and you can see NO/Very little interaction with the dogs and it is quite sad to see them caged up and brought out and then put back.

NOT ALL are like this. :thumbsup:

If it was taken LESS seriously,Then there would proberbly be less dogs "NEEDING" to be Re-homed due to non-showing tendencies :- "

 

[chelynnah]

I think sometimes we just need to get to a point where we agree to disagree. And I think we do all agree at the extreme end of the spectrum. But there are ways people keep their dogs that while it wouldn't be the way *I* would keep my dogs, or what *I* would do with my dogs, I can see their dogs are overall well cared for, truly loved and truly happy. And I'm sure not everyone would agree with the way I keep my dogs either (they sleep in my bed which would horrify some dog owners for a start), but no one would deny that my dogs are well loved and cared for.

Had anyone seen my dogs at the most recent summer shows, locked up in their crate waiting their turn, yup - that looks awful. If the shows had been better weather, they'd have seen us sitting round the ring with the dogs out of their crates, in our laps or wandering round socialising with all who would pay them attention...

Some people are horrified at the thought of raw feeding, some are horrified at the thought of feeding complete with all the nasty stuff in.

At the end of the day, the post that sparked this was by a person who does very much care for her dogs, and while you may not understand what she has decided to do, it doesn't mean she's selfish or doesn't care. I have no doubt that rehoming an older dog is VERY much harder on the emotions than homing puppies.

Are there breeders who are like what you've described? Who are in it for the accolades only and are constantly swapping dogs out (in all breeds) - of course there are. Do I believe they're in the majority? No I don't.

Just some thoughts to ponder.

Wendy

 

[rls22]

Wendy that is a very well made point. :thumbsup:

I know that I could never rehome one of my dogs if it didn't make 'the grade' but I completely understand people who do when they have the dogs very best interest at heart.

This is a difficult subject, which we're all never going to agree on and like Wendy says we all have different views on every aspect of dog ownership.

 

[rls22]

Hit the nail on the head, 05whippet. :thumbsup:
I have been to watch quite a few shows and you can see NO/Very little interaction with the dogs and it is quite sad to see them caged up and brought out and then put back.

NOT ALL are like this. :thumbsup:

If it was taken LESS seriously,Then there would proberbly be less dogs "NEEDING" to be Re-homed due to non-showing tendencies :- "

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Phill – I have to completely disagree with you here.

I go to a show at least a couple of times a month and spend my time with lots of the k9 ‘showers’.

I think it is very unfair to say that there is little or no interaction between dog and owner and that they are only brought our for their class – it is in most cases entirely untrue.

Yes, sometimes the dogs go in their crate, maybe if it is too hot, or busy, but the majority of the time you will find them sat cuddled on their owner’s knee or being given lots of fuss by someone else. Sometimes it’s just not feasible to have all your dogs out at one time either.

But, I can assure you that they get plenty of attention throughout the day – in fact I think it’s probably our dogs favourite part of the week as they know they’re going to get cuddles from their Granny Juley or Jax :huggles:

At the show we went to at the weekend, Holly spent the entire time either on my knee or taking up a seat that was meant for my Mum!! :lol: