Dog Tail Docking Statement from Dogs Trust

[Macha]

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below is a copy of an e-mail from the Dog's Trust. I wasn't aware of this campaign before (apologies if I'm repeating a k9 message that I missed). We'll have to get used to long-tailed boxers, dobermans, etc at the dog shows. Well if an English pointer gets on fine with his natural tail, why shouldn't a vizla, weimaraner, German shorthair/wirehair poioter,etc.

message from Dog's Trust:

As you may know, the Animal Welfare Bill is finally on the brink of becoming law in England and Wales, and the similar Animal Health and Welfare (Scotland) Bill is going through the Scottish Parliament. This is great news as the new laws will give greater protection to animals in many ways, especially as they make responsible ownership a legal requirement for the first time!

But there is a vital piece of legislation missing and we need your help to ensure that this legislation is included.

If the Bills go through in their current form, tail-docking (the removing of a dogs' tail leaving a stump) may still be allowed if the dogs are believed to be working dogs. We believe that tail-docking is cruel and unnecessary. Not only is it a practice that causes pain and suffering to young puppies, but deprives dogs of a vital form of their canine expression and can have long-term adverse effects on health.

We are calling for a total ban on tail-docking other than for therapeutic medical reasons.

The Bills will have a second reading in their respective parliaments on the 10th January, so it's not too late to make sure a ban on docking is included, but time is running out.

You can help us achieve an end to this cruel practice, and we are appealing to you to write to your MP (if you live in England or Wales) or your MSP (if you live in Scotland). Please feel free to use the below sentence as a guide.

'Please attend the debate on January 10th and speak to support our case for a complete ban on tail docking because it is cruel'

To add your support please contact your local MP or MSP. Email addresses can be found through the House of Commons or Scottish Parliament websites. Visit www.parliament.uk/directories/directories.cfm or www.scottish.parliament.uk

With your help, we hope to prevent even more unnecessary suffering to dogs.

Thank you for your support.

Yours sincerely

Clarissa Baldwin

Chief Executive, Dogs Trust

 

[lalena]

i read something about that on the rspca website. what upset me was the picture of a rottie pup, newborn, one of 11? i think it said? all bled to death because the breeder did it himself using nail clippers

 

[Vicky]

We believe that tail-docking is cruel and unnecessary. Not only is it a practice that causes pain and suffering to young puppies, but deprives dogs of a vital form of their canine expression and can have long-term adverse effects on health.We are calling for a total ban on tail-docking other than for therapeutic medical reasons.

What a load of bo^^ocks, these people want to see spaniels when they've been out in the field and their tail gets banged that many times the end dies and drops off. As it says though if the bill goes through and you can provide proof your dog is bred for working then you should still be able to have your litter docked - fine by me!

 

[kris]

im pro dockin always have been and always will be.it isnt done for cosmetic purposes.these people who lived years ago knew what they were doing.they docked tails for a reason.i always docked my own pups tails and never lost any.but the first litter i had docked were done by a vet and a right pigs ear he made of it. :angry: after seeing that i went to watch an experienced breeder do it and did all my own aftewards.most of our pups never even woke up when it was done.over the years ive docked hundreds of pups for other breeders all with no ill effects whatsoever.yorkies, poodles, jack russels,rotties, you name it ive done it!with a large breed like a dobie they need to be docked as when they wag their tails they put all their body into it and ive seen the damage that can be done by dogs smashing their tails on walls and doorways and splitting the tail open.once its split it will keep doing it along the same injury and the only thing they can do to stop it is amputation.so no sorry i wont be supporting this bill :thumbsup:

 

[jok]

I fully appreciate the horror stories when inexperienced people or older dogs are involved in docking.

However, i totally disagree that docking as a whole is cruel. If a vet / experienced breeder docks puppies when they are a couple of days old and it is done properly, the pup does not suffer in the slightest. When my Dobermann was docked she did not even squeak. She did however make a slight wimper when her dew claws were taken off - do we think this should be banned!!

I have been quite seriously verbally abused on several occassions whilst out walking my Dobe. People have ranted and raved at how cruel it is to have had her docked. I always explain that it was done when she was 2 days old and she felt no discomfort as the bone in the tail is very soft at this age. To be honest, i get sick of people who very often don't know what they're talking about having a go!!

Lastly, she is quite capable of wagging her little tail and expressing herself, she is a very happy dog. Rant over!

 

[lalena]

its all how its done. if done right, i'm sure there are no horrid side effects, its just awful when the average joe having his first litter decides to hack them off without asking how it should be done, and not bothering with any precautions, cleanliness etc :angry:

come to think of it, why no outcry to sheep being docked? they arent born with stumpy tails :- "

 

[Joanna]

I think working dogs are exempt Vicky, spaniels in particular.

We had a docked Doberman who always had irritation from her docked tail. I think certain breeds are better off undocked.

 

[ja jumper]

I think working dogs are exempt Vicky, spaniels in particular.We had a docked Doberman who always had irritation from her docked tail. I think certain breeds are better off undocked.

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i think docking tails are fine when done by people who know what there doing ,but so many people dont and dock them thereselves and then causes problems for the poor dogs ,i also think tail or no tail does it really matter you should love your dog what ever he she looks like tail or no tail

 

[mally]

The people who start these campaigns know nothing at all about dog welfare.

During the shooting season we have at least two shoots a week with approx 15 beaters all with spaniels or labradors, The spaniels that have full tails are always at the vets due to injuries which never seem to heel. There tails get cut and scratched during beating and then get knocked again and again. It is the same with the terrier breeds. Tail docking has been taking place for hundreds of years why should we stop doing it now?. It's all down to bloody do gooders that know nothing. The organisations they work for have too much money in the bank so they decide to start a campaign. Make me sick the lot of 'em :rant: :rant:

 

[Tony Taylor]

If the Bills go through in their current form, tail-docking (the removing of a dogs' tail leaving a stump) may still be allowed if the dogs are believed to be working dogs. We believe that tail-docking is cruel and unnecessary. Not only is it a practice that causes pain and suffering to young puppies, but deprives dogs of a vital form of their canine expression and can have long-term adverse effects on health.
We are calling for a total ban on tail-docking other than for therapeutic medical reasons.

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Interesting statement this;

They " believe" that tail docking is cruel and unecessery. Well they can believe that the earth is flat and the moon is made of green cheese but it doesn't make it true. It would be inappropiate to ban a practice simply on the beliefs of a group of people who have their own agenda without any supporting facts.

It may well cause pain and suffering but they don't quantify this statement; even if the pain and suffering is negligible the statement is still true however writing that tail docking is a practice that causes negligible pain and suffering probably wouldn't be very helpful to the cause.

Whether it deprives them of a form of canine expression is at best equivicable. Docked dogs can still use the stump and other dogs seem to understand their intentions. The significance of docking in this respect seems marginal. Again there's no evidence of any detriment to docked dogs.

It "can" have adverse effects on long term health but again they don't quantify this statement. How many docked dogs suffer long trm health effects? all of them? 1in 10 ? 1 in 1000000000 ? The statement would be true for all these numbers but again quantifying the statement won't help the cause, especially since the numbers of working dogs suffering adverse long term health effects is going to be higher than those suffering due to being docked.

So what seems a reasonable statement is in fact meaningless drivel.

 

[ja jumper]

The people who start these campaigns know nothing at all about dog welfare. During the shooting season we have at least two shoots a week with approx 15 beaters all with spaniels or labradors, The spaniels that have full tails are always at the vets due to injuries which never seem to heel. There tails get cut and scratched during beating and then get knocked again and again. It is the same with the terrier breeds. Tail docking has been taking place for hundreds of years why should we stop doing it now?. It's all down to bloody do gooders that know nothing. The organisations they work for have too much money in the bank so they decide to start a campaign. Make me sick the lot of 'em :rant:   :rant:

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mally you do see such a lot of suffering on both sides but i think the problem lies with the idiots who just have a go when they havent a clue of what they are doing and then the poor dog suffers

 

[ja jumper]

The people who start these campaigns know nothing at all about dog welfare. During the shooting season we have at least two shoots a week with approx 15 beaters all with spaniels or labradors, The spaniels that have full tails are always at the vets due to injuries which never seem to heel. There tails get cut and scratched during beating and then get knocked again and again. It is the same with the terrier breeds. Tail docking has been taking place for hundreds of years why should we stop doing it now?. It's all down to bloody do gooders that know nothing. The organisations they work for have too much money in the bank so they decide to start a campaign. Make me sick the lot of 'em :rant:   :rant:

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mally you do see such a lot of suffering on both sides but i think the problem lies with the idiots who just have a go when they havent a clue of what they are doing and then the poor dog suffers

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the animal welfare groups needs every penny it can get ,they see so much suffering every day ,there are so many animals destroyed every day because there isnt enough money for vet bill etc the rspca can only spend £50 on each animal if the bill is over that the poor animal has to be destroyed i dont think they have to much money ,they see the problems that idiots cause when they dont know what there doing every day where as we dont

 

[bardmand]

Sticking my head out here, I guess, but I am very much against tail docking (not to mention ear cropping :x ) .



I certainly see the case being made for certain working dogs, but how many American Cockers and Yorkshire Terriers are made to work in Britain today? Also, congenital stumpy tails have been bred into boxers via the Welsh Corgi - why can it not in other breeds, if that is so vital for their function? British dog breeders are rumoured to be the best in the world - certainly they should be able to breed dogs that do not need surgerical alterations to fulfil their original purpose?

Tail docking has been banned in several countries for more than a decade already. There certainly was a lot of controversy about it here in Norway before the bill was passed, but you hardly ever hear pro-docking views voiced these days - people learn to live with it, and apparently, so do the dogs...

 

[dessie]

We used to breed both Cockers & English Springer Spaniels. OH is pro-docking, purely because he does not want some suited & booted beaurocrat in Belgium telling him what he can and can't do and what is best for his dogs. I am anti-docking because I cannot see the point.

People argue about the working dogs injuring their tails but the stupid part is that they are docked longer than the showdogs. Duh! Why??? Not only that they must get as many head/eye injuries because surely where the head goes, the tail must only follow!

I would never be able to dock or dewclaw myself so my Vet (who is old enough to actually have been taught properly) used to do them. Then I gave the matter some real thought and gave up docking the spaniels but did have dew claws removed. After a lot of discussion with my Vet, who run the largest practice in the area, regarding the number of ripped out dewclaws they see (and I have experienced them myself) I reluctantly decided to carry on removing dewclaws from my Whippets but I will not believe ANYONE who says that either docking or dewclawing DOES NOT cause the puppies pain. Absolute rubbish. Yes, they recover quickly (or should do) but it still turns my stomach to hear them cry when it is done and I am not usually prone to being a drama queen!

Why do you want to dock a Dobermann, Boxer, Rottweiler??? We have banned ear cropping and I don't think anyone would say that was a bad thing.

 

[kris]

blimey tony,you used plenty of bandwidth there! o :- "

 

[Strike Whippets]

I will not believe ANYONE who says that either docking or dewclawing DOES NOT cause the puppies pain. Absolute rubbish. Yes, they recover quickly (or should do) but it still turns my stomach to hear them cry when it is done and I am not usually prone to being a drama queen!

Same here ....I nearly died holding Inca's pup's when our vet dew clawed them .......I do see it as ness to dew claw running/working dog's though, as I also see it necc to dock "real" working dog's ......but as said earlier .......Yorkies and such like, I personally think docking is really not needed ......Just my own opinion though .....

 

[rythem]

I will not believe ANYONE who says that either docking or dewclawing DOES NOT cause the puppies pain. Absolute rubbish. Yes, they recover quickly (or should do) but it still turns my stomach to hear them cry when it is done and I am not usually prone to being a drama queen!

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what about the pain and suffering the adult dogs endure when they rip there dewclaws off when running? a little pain when young (a little whimper) is better than days of agony when there adults. one of my whippets has ripped both his dewclaws off and i wouldn't wish that on any dog. I think people should think about the dogs welfare. OR DO YOU ALL KEEP YOUR DOGS ON THE LEAD ????

 

[Tony Taylor]

blimey tony,you used plenty of bandwidth there! o   :- "

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Hmmm 382 posts v 1977 posts :- "

 

[dessie]

I will not believe ANYONE who says that either docking or dewclawing DOES NOT cause the puppies pain. Absolute rubbish. Yes, they recover quickly (or should do) but it still turns my stomach to hear them cry when it is done and I am not usually prone to being a drama queen!

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what about the pain and suffering the adult dogs endure when they rip there dewclaws off when running? a little pain when young (a little whimper) is better than days of agony when there adults. one of my whippets has ripped both his dewclaws off and i wouldn't wish that on any dog. I think people should think about the dogs welfare. OR DO YOU ALL KEEP YOUR DOGS ON THE LEAD ????

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No I don't keep all my dogs on leads, they are well exercised/hunt naturally and do not have dewclaws but if you read my post correctly, you would see that I have had experience of dogs ripping their dewclaws off which is why I continue to have pups that I breed dewclawed.

My point is the fact that people insist that they feel no pain when the surgery (and it is surgery without anaesthetic) is carried out and this is CODSWALLOP. They open their mouths and bawl not have a 'little whimper' as you put it.

For anyone who has not bred a litter I think what you say is very misleading and they are in for a shock when they do.

If your dog still has his dewclaws why do you not have them properly surgically removed then he cannot rip them off in the future??? That way he will not suffer days of agony.

 

[ja jumper]

I will not believe ANYONE who says that either docking or dewclawing DOES NOT cause the puppies pain. Absolute rubbish. Yes, they recover quickly (or should do) but it still turns my stomach to hear them cry when it is done and I am not usually prone to being a drama queen!

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what about the pain and suffering the adult dogs endure when they rip there dewclaws off when running? a little pain when young (a little whimper) is better than days of agony when there adults. one of my whippets has ripped both his dewclaws off and i wouldn't wish that on any dog. I think people should think about the dogs welfare. OR DO YOU ALL KEEP YOUR DOGS ON THE LEAD ????

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No I don't keep all my dogs on leads, they are well exercised/hunt naturally and do not have dewclaws but if you read my post correctly, you would see that I have had experience of dogs ripping their dewclaws off which is why I continue to have pups that I breed dewclawed.

My point is the fact that people insist that they feel no pain when the surgery (and it is surgery without anaesthetic) is carried out and this is CODSWALLOP. They open their mouths and bawl not have a 'little whimper' as you put it.

For anyone who has not bred a litter I think what you say is very misleading and they are in for a shock when they do.

If your dog still has his dewclaws why do you not have them properly surgically removed then he cannot rip them off in the future??? That way he will not suffer days of agony.

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i know that if you dewclaw a pup the day after its born thats ok its like us cutting on own nails ,one of my boys ripped his dewclaw and it was a nightmare for him he had to go under and have them both taken off,i know that alot of vets have now stopped dewclawing