Dog Tail Docking Statement from Dogs Trust

[nina]

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I can only say i have been doing my pups dew claws for the past nearly 25 years & are always done within the first 24 hours.

NEVER have i had a pup open its mouth & bawl!!

The most i have EVER had is an irrated groan & then go straight back off to sleep or resumed feeding off mum.

If done correctly & within the correct time, its quick, painless & far kinder than an adult dog having to endure pointless anesthetics for a far bigger job.

2 Rescue Lurchers i have had over the years, both pets NOT working dogs ripped their dew claws off out running in the woods & both had to suffer needless anesthetics & ops for something that could easily have been avoided.

I think as many people have stated already, a job CORRECTLY done by an EXPERIENCED person can save a lot of heartache & pain to an adult dog.

Just my opinion

 

[Cerito]

the animal welfare groups needs every penny it can get ,they see so much suffering every day ,there are so many animals destroyed every day because there isnt enough money for vet bill etc the rspca can only spend £50 on each animal if the bill is over that the poor animal has to be destroyed i dont think they have to much money ,they see the problems that idiots cause when they dont know what there doing every day where as we dont

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The RSPCA don't seem to be too short of money to have full page newspaper adverts in national newspapers against fox hunting. They should stick to looking after animals and leave politics alone. They haven't saved a single animal with the Hunting Ban.

Sorry I don't support the RSPCA, but don't take this as critism against truly cash strapped charities.

Cerito

 

[ja jumper]

the animal welfare groups needs every penny it can get ,they see so much suffering every day ,there are so many animals destroyed every day because there isnt enough money for vet bill etc the rspca can only spend £50 on each animal if the bill is over that the poor animal has to be destroyed i dont think they have to much money ,they see the problems that idiots cause when they dont know what there doing every day where as we dont

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The RSPCA don't seem to be too short of money to have full page newspaper adverts in national newspapers against fox hunting. They should stick to looking after animals and leave politics alone. They haven't saved a single animal with the Hunting Ban.

Sorry I don't support the RSPCA, but don't take this as critism against truly cash strapped charities.

Cerito

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you can only do what you can do with the money you have the rspca alone recieve thousands of calls daily and you can only spend £50.00 on each animal ,if your free one day why not HELP OUT ONE DAY and it might change you point of view ,and you can see what really goes on and the many problems they face seeing a beautiful whippet that has to be put to sleep because their is not enough money ,SO YOU HAVENT GOT A CLUE

 

[masta]

the animal welfare groups needs every penny it can get ,they see so much suffering every day ,there are so many animals destroyed every day because there isnt enough money for vet bill etc the rspca can only spend £50 on each animal if the bill is over that the poor animal has to be destroyed i dont think they have to much money ,they see the problems that idiots cause when they dont know what there doing every day where as we dont

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

The RSPCA don't seem to be too short of money to have full page newspaper adverts in national newspapers against fox hunting. They should stick to looking after animals and leave politics alone. They haven't saved a single animal with the Hunting Ban.

Sorry I don't support the RSPCA, but don't take this as critism against truly cash strapped charities.

Cerito

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​

you can only do what you can do with the money you have the rspca alone recieve thousands of calls daily and you can only spend £50.00 on each animal ,if your free one day why not HELP OUT ONE DAY and it might change you point of view ,and you can see what really goes on and the many problems they face seeing a beautiful whippet that has to be put to sleep because their is not enough money ,SO YOU HAVENT GOT A CLUE

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Taken from a RSPCA Forum:-

"The RSPCA is swimming in money ( £119 million in 1996) and appears to be adrift in a sea of under achievement. After 174 years of the Society’s existence, last year there was a reported increase of 17% in cruelty to animals. Having had orders from the Charity Commission to reduce the Society’s reserves to £45 million, the RSPCA sent out a letter asking every member to give £15 to for 16 new Inspectors. The cost of this was estimated at £688,000 for the first year. PEANUTS compared to the £2 million being given to Freedom Food for advertising. WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ALL THE MILLIONS THE RSPCA HAS BEEN ORDERED TO SPEND if £688,000 cannot be afforded for extra Inspectors

All of this should tell even the most stupid person that the RSPCA is sending out

THE WRONG MESSAGE"

Seems like the RSPCA has lost its way getting involved in Freedom Food and hunting etc it seems to have turned its back on caring for strays and abuse cases

 

[Seraphina]

will not believe ANYONE who says that either docking or dewclawing DOES NOT cause the puppies pain.
Why do you want to dock a Dobermann, Boxer, Rottweiler???  We have banned ear cropping and I don't think anyone would say that was a bad thing.

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Newborn babies DO NOT feel pain the way we do because the brain nurons connections are not formed until about 1 week after birth.

My vet does the dew claws and some pups do not even wake up, others scream the moment I pick them up from the nest.. I have also seen him docking tails and there was no blood. I would not think the tail would have major blood vessels.

That is not however a good enough reason to routinely chop dogs' tail off in most cases.

It sounds to me the existing legislation is fine as it is.

I just hope some misguided fools will not try to ban dewclaw removal at the first couple of days of life, as later it will require general anesthetic and is a major operation.

 

[dessie]

NEVER have i had a pup open its mouth & bawl!!its quick, painless

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Newborn babies DO NOT feel pain the way we do because the  brain nurons connections are not formed until about 1 week after birth.

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Sorry neither of you will convince me that the procedure is painless, correctly done or not

 

[nina]

NEVER have i had a pup open its mouth & bawl!!its quick, painless

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Newborn babies DO NOT feel pain the way we do because the  brain nurons connections are not formed until about 1 week after birth.

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Sorry neither of you will convince me that the procedure is painless, correctly done or not

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I can only speak from 25 years of experience in doing it. If i had ever had a pup open its mouth & bawl i would have probably dropped it there & then in shock!!

I can only go by what i've experienced & i'm sure any living thing that was feeling much pain would not contededly go straight back off to sleep or carry on suckling without a murmur?

Perhaps yourself or others have experienced different situations but i am not out to convince anyone of anything, just merely sharing what I have experienced.

 

[bappit]

Well I grew up with spaniels, working and show and witnessed the 'procedure', honestly can say I'd be the first to :x if i thought there was any suffering involved. And think i saw it done often enough to know what i'm on about.

As for dewclaws, again its only based on 26 years (w00t) gawd i feel old with running dogs, better in the long run without, and nobody I know has visited a vet to have it done, just a quickly and expertly done early days, to avoid grief all round in the future.

Think there is too much intervention by 'bodies' who really dont know what they are on about :rant:

 

[lalena]

point to consider, at least with humans, the younger you are the better you heal. i watched a fascinating program where a baby, while still in the womb :blink: , had surgery for harelip. about a month later, when he was born, it was as if he'd never had one (w00t) there was a load of hi tech lingo, but basically the younger, the better recuperative/regenerative capabilities, which is why serious conditions are operated on at birth. so, if all youngsters are alike in this, one could hazard a guess that for a newly whelped pup, dewclaw removal and tail docking is less traumatic than thought?

 

[nina]

point to consider, at least with humans, the younger you are the better you heal. i watched a fascinating program where a baby, while still in the womb :blink: , had surgery for harelip. about a month later, when he was born, it was as if he'd never had one (w00t) there was a load of hi tech lingo, but basically the younger, the better recuperative/regenerative capabilities, which is why serious conditions are operated on at birth. so, if all youngsters are alike in this, one could hazard a guess that for a newly whelped pup, dewclaw removal and tail docking is less traumatic than thought?

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My vet always carries out tail docking & dew claw removal within the first 48 as he explained the nervous system of a pup does not kick in until after the first 48 hours has passed.

I wouldn't like to say if different breeds differ regarding pain endurance etc but if this is correct what he says then i would think its pretty much across the board.

I can only say that one quick snip just like clipping a toe nail but obviously even tinier, the wound barely bleeds is quickly sealed with the right medication, when dried a tiny spot of antibiotic powder is dusted over, 24 hours later it has scabbed over & within 48 hours virtually gone.

So much simpler & painless than an adult dog limping towards you with blood everywhere & a torn dew claw hanging out at a hideous angle in pain, having to be rushed to a vet, undergo an anesthetic, operation & stitches.

 

[Seraphina]

Sorry neither of you will convince me that the procedure is painless, correctly done or not

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That the nuron paths are not wired at the early stage is an undisputed scientific fact. If babies (of any sort) could feel pain the whole birth process would be incredibly painful for them.

But that should not be an excuse to mutilate puppies' tails without a good reason.

I have to admit I have serious doubts about tail injuries even on working dogs. My Borzois and Danes ran over very rough and overgrown terrain and never snagged their tails. I would like to see some real evidence. But there is no excuse for Dobes and Rotties and other show dogs.

Really, my dogs are not kept wrapped in cotton wool and over the years I only had one tail injury, that was a nuisance , but got sorted out in few weeks time.

 

[Nicola]

I´d like to see docking stopped on some breeds. It makes me sad to see breeds such as the miniature schnauzers docked. They have a wonderful crescent shaped tail (in most cases), not too long, and the few I see in a show ring look lovely. It doesn´t spoil their outline which is what many breeders worry about. Some tails can turn out rather curly, so by docking, it is one less breed fault to worry about. :angry: It´s only about cosmetics on certain breeds that are no longer used for specific purposes.

Working dogs are another story.....if people with experience say they have seen the damage done with a complete tail, then I believe them.

 

[ja jumper]

the animal welfare groups needs every penny it can get ,they see so much suffering every day ,there are so many animals destroyed every day because there isnt enough money for vet bill etc the rspca can only spend £50 on each animal if the bill is over that the poor animal has to be destroyed i dont think they have to much money ,they see the problems that idiots cause when they dont know what there doing every day where as we dont

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

The RSPCA don't seem to be too short of money to have full page newspaper adverts in national newspapers against fox hunting. They should stick to looking after animals and leave politics alone. They haven't saved a single animal with the Hunting Ban.

Sorry I don't support the RSPCA, but don't take this as critism against truly cash strapped charities.

Cerito

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

you can only do what you can do with the money you have the rspca alone recieve thousands of calls daily and you can only spend £50.00 on each animal ,if your free one day why not HELP OUT ONE DAY and it might change you point of view ,and you can see what really goes on and the many problems they face seeing a beautiful whippet that has to be put to sleep because their is not enough money ,SO YOU HAVENT GOT A CLUE

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Taken from a RSPCA Forum:-

"The RSPCA is swimming in money ( £119 million in 1996) and appears to be adrift in a sea of under achievement. After 174 years of the Society’s existence, last year there was a reported increase of 17% in cruelty to animals. Having had orders from the Charity Commission to reduce the Society’s reserves to £45 million, the RSPCA sent out a letter asking every member to give £15 to for 16 new Inspectors. The cost of this was estimated at £688,000 for the first year. PEANUTS compared to the £2 million being given to Freedom Food for advertising. WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ALL THE MILLIONS THE RSPCA HAS BEEN ORDERED TO SPEND if £688,000 cannot be afforded for extra Inspectors

All of this should tell even the most stupid person that the RSPCA is sending out

THE WRONG MESSAGE"

Seems like the RSPCA has lost its way getting involved in Freedom Food and hunting etc it seems to have turned its back on caring for strays and abuse cases

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

masta once again people cant give their view without others being very rude back to them, :rant: im not stupied im just giving my view,

 

[ja jumper]

everyone has different views just because ,you dont agree WHYdo others feel the need to be so rude to others ,i think people are just looking for a fight because their lacking something

 

[beaker]

just curious but has anyone ever had any experience of docking using special rubber rings like they do with sheep ? i know what the end result is like on sheep and know that some people do it when docking pups, i just wondered if anyone had any first hand experience of it and could share

 

[Vicky]

I have to admit I have serious doubts about tail injuries even on working dogs. My Borzois and Danes ran over very rough and overgrown terrain and never snagged their tails. I would like to see some real evidence.

What more evidence do you want than people with experience of tail injuries telling you? Can take you some pictures if you like?

I presume height is a major factor with Borzois / Danes compared to Spaniels etc

9 years ago we bought 2 springers to work, one stayed with my dad the other went to my grandad, both were on shoots and also did a fair bit of beating both UN-DOCKED = BIG MISTAKE, they have both been constantly plagued with injuries, mainly due to the fact they wag so much, be it in the house (nocking against tables, doors, chairs) or outside (against trees, bushed and undergrowth).

Before my grandad had his bitch mated he checked to make sure our vet would dock them, so much was the problem that if the vet had refused we wouldn't have mated her. Luckily our vet is old school with loads of experience with working/racing breeds and agreed it wouldn't be a problem, all we needed to do was give written consent and say that they were going to working homes.

That litter was docked leaving 2/3 of the tail on (for the simple reason that it was only the end 2" of our dogs tails that ever got damaged and we agreed between ourselves 2/3 tail looked far better than being cut off leaving 2/3" at the stump) also the dogs still have all the benefits of having a tail. This was all done without problems and the tail corturised, ALL pups slept no probs on the way home, within 2 days you'd have thought their tails had always been like that.

As most of you know we have Gabbi (as a result of that litter) and she is mental, only need to look at her and she's wagging like a lunatic, there's no doubt in my mind we did the best thing.

Molly my dads dog had 2" drop off the end of her tail it got damaged that many times that the tail just split and dropped off, leaving a bald stump at the end now.

Gab's Tail

 

[playawhile]

Hi!

It's interesting reading this topic, as this discussion was on in Sweden at the end of the eighties before docking was banned over here. The same arguements as I can read in this thread came up in Sweden about injured tails and so on and now some 16-18 years later we can see that all the bad things that was supoosed to happen to a number of breeds hardly occured. Yes there have been one case of injury here and there but looking at the whole picture what many people in breeds were docking was done said was going to happen to their breeds never did.

These days even undocked dogs from Sweden has been showed at Cruft's winning BOB, actually a Swedish lady won BOB and BOS in american cockers the other year with two undocked.

Henrik Härling

 

[beaker]

re: dew claws

the first litter i had i wanted the dew claws removing from so asked my vet if they would do it and got a lecture on cruelty, un-necessary suffering, mutilation without anaesthetic etc and NO they wouldn't do it :angry: , fine i thought, they are entitled to their opinion and i still respected them even though they had disagreed with me . so i organised for my pups to go to a vet that would do it, my pups duely arrived and were booked in 24 hours later to have them removed, the way he did it was barbaric, he took a clamp and clipped it behind the dew claw dislocating it then snipped it off, then proceded to cauterise it , it took him ages to do the whole litter like that and they were placed back in the box whimpering , i was nearly sick :x if that is what my usual vet had been taught to do at vet college then i can't blame him for giving me a mouthfull.

the experience put me off having them done for ages until i saw an EXPERIENCED breeder do a litter of pups, the whole thing was no more traumatic than having nails trimmed, one simple painless snip, most didn't even wake up from their slumber and not one of them made a noise, all went back to their bed to continue snoozing like before -_- NO FUSS, NO TRAUMA, and from what i saw NO PAIN and all done in no time at all. i just can't understand why the vet did them the way he did :blink:

 

[ja jumper]

just curious but has anyone ever had any experience of docking using special rubber rings like they do with sheep ?  i know what the end result is like on sheep and know that some people do it when docking pups, i just wondered if anyone had any first hand experience of it and could share

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my friend breeds rotties she uses bands and has had no problems ,but she been doing it for many many years and knows where to put the bands ,

 

[wild whippies]

It's not only positioning of the band, it's the material used that is the most imperative thing. The elastic has to be strong enough not to come undone and thus prevent gangrene. It is a painless method, I've witnessesed it done hundreds of times and rarely does the pup wake from it's sleep. It produces a neat docking and there isn't any scar tissue like surgical docking that sometimes leaves the dog with irritation. I've never seen a case of infection or death ever from any of the pups that has been banded but I have seen young pups suffer from shock and blood loss from surgical docking, especially by inexperienced vets. I've also seen the latter occur in dew claw removal but again it's the methodology used that has caused the problem.

I have to say that from what I've seen, experienced breeders have far more expertise and skill and probably a lot lower mortality rate than some of the vets out there. Just my opinion!