Dogs behaving badly

[leashedForLife]

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I realize, @JudyN , that it was a throwaway remark on Ur part - a casual jest.

But plenty of APOs take it as a gospel truth, b/c drama is used by many trainers to sell their services & get the attention of potential clients. Dissing another trainer is one such marketing ploy.

So yes, indeed, in all seriousness - loads of trainers AGREE on the tools, techniques, & overall methods to be used, whether in training [teach a cued behavior] or B-Mod [reduce, redirect, or retrain an unwanted behavior].
The trainers that i agree with are a large group who advocate pos-R & use nonaversive tools, who condemn flooding & avoid overfacing any animal, & who prefer to build a desired behavior, as opposed to permit & then punish an undesired one.
They don’t threaten, confront, intimidate, or coerce - they teach. // Positive punishment is used only in an emergency, which by definition, is not training; training is planned, has a goal, & is outlined.
Accidents happen.

It’s a helluva lot more efficient to make the desired behavior easy to inevitable, then reward it when it occurs, & make UNdesired behaviors difficult to impossible, so they rarely if ever come up... vs let the dog commit some sin, & then, after the fact, jump all over them.
Besides, it’s a lot more fun for all involved.

Catch yer dog doing something right - & REWARD that. It’s not rocket surgery.
Anyone can do it. U don’t need “an instinct” for it, it’s not inherited, it’s not a lucky quirk - it’s a skill set, & some patience.

Happy training,
- terry

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[Dibbythedog]

From Steve Manns Puppy book.
He used to hang about training classes as a lad and then his neighbours asked for help with their dogs.
"I didnt sit down and figure out my own philosophy of how to train and , more importantly , treat dogs; I just did what I felt was natural . Why would I ever want to hurt my best friend. "

We live in enlightened times yet still use harsh methods to train dogs when we don't need to,.
Whatever method you use , it will always need to be reinforced at times for the rest of your dogs life, Why use corrections when you can use rewards, you dog will enjoy it and you benefit from the enjoyment of having your dog do what you want and you're both happy.

We're an alien species to our dogs , they dont speak our language yet we expect so much from them .
Ever played Give us a clue and not got it or been abroad and not understand what people are saying?
Would you expect people to be abusive to you when you didnt get it ?

I lost my hearing when I was young and I can vouch for how frightening and bewildering it is when people get angry at you when you have misunderstood what they have said . You end up being very anxious and then not able to concentrate on what they are saying .
In shops , I havent heard people say excuse me and been shoved out of the way or people thinking Im deliberately not doing what they want . "You can hear when you want too" is a common phrase. Well no , I cant , why would I want to be subject to abuse if I can avoid it.

You might not think a correction to a dog is a big deal but it can be to the dog .

 

[malwhit]

After watching a few of the shows I'm never going to moan about my dogs again

How people put up with bad behaviour like these programmes show is shocking. Don't they have any common sense?

 

[JenniWDog]

I don’t like the message that it’s the dog that’s behaving badly. Perhaps it should be called ‘Humans Being Stupid’.

 

[JudyN]

I don’t like the message that it’s the dog that’s behaving badly. Perhaps it should be called ‘Humans Being Stupid’.

Yes!!!

 

[Mayblossom]

The humans were incredibly stupid on the last programme take the dog that always barks when the owner puts his shoes on to go to work , they had a porch so why not put his shoes on out there or put the dog in another room? I was getting quite annoyed with them all !

 

[Free spirit]

I love this programme and I think he talks a lot of sense. I realize that these results are not achieved overnight but have to be practised over and over but the programme would be very boring if we went through all that. By the way my dog Buster now has an absolutely bullet proof recall and is able to walk around the village with perfect safety and now runs free in the country park with other dogs, all without the help of an expert x

 

[Dibbythedog]

I love this programme and I think he talks a lot of sense. I realize that these results are not achieved overnight but have to be practised over and over but the programme would be very boring if we went through all that. By the way my dog Buster now has an absolutely bullet proof recall and is able to walk around the village with perfect safety and now runs free in the country park with other dogs, all without the help of an expert x

That's good , so what did you do to achieve the good recall ?

 

[Free spirit]

That's good , so what did you do to achieve the good recall ?

I first of all took him to the tennis courts in my local park because he had no recall at all i would call him back and slap my knees and always reward him he came back. I then moved into a long training lead so that if he ran off i could put my foot on in (if you need one i will give it to you i don't use it any more) i will post it to you. I used the command Buster come and at first he would.sometimes ignore me if he saw another dog, so I decided to use an emergency stop i go a whistle online a practised blowing it and always giving him a high value reward (chicken or cheese) it took very little time to get results even though he had ingrained and habits as he was 3 years old when I got him. Please believe in your ability to train your own dog . Buster has turned himself around and is now a pleasure to me. X

 

[Dibbythedog]

I first of all took him to the tennis courts in my local park because he had no recall at all i would call him back and slap my knees and always reward him he came back. I then moved into a long training lead so that if he ran off i could put my foot on in (if you need one i will give it to you i don't use it any more) i will post it to you. I used the command Buster come and at first he would.sometimes ignore me if he saw another dog, so I decided to use an emergency stop i go a whistle online a practised blowing it and always giving him a high value reward (chicken or cheese) it took very little time to get results even though he had ingrained and habits as he was 3 years old when I got him. Please believe in your ability to train your own dog . Buster has turned himself around and is now a pleasure to me. X

Oh I see. Yes , this method is very effective. Ive not seen all the programme , is this what Graeme recommended ? he usually drags dogs around . In a TV programme on ch 4 he put a long line on a great dane with a head halter
The reason Im asking is that , he seems pretty keen on using punitive method and that I think cancels out any positive reinforcement he uses.

The problem is that he's using dogs for our entertainment to their detriment and he is misleading people into believing that dogs can be " cured " of their "bad behaviour" that easily.

 

[Free spirit]

Oh I see. Yes , this method is very effective. Ive not seen all the programme , is this what Graeme recommended ? he usually drags dogs around . In a TV programme on ch 4 he put a long line on a great dane with a head halter
The reason Im asking is that , he seems pretty keen on using punitive method and that I think cancels out any positive reinforcement he uses.

The problem is that he's using dogs for our entertainment to their detriment and he is misleading people into believing that dogs can be " cured " of their "bad behaviour" that easily.

 

[Free spirit]

I had not watched the programme before I tried this I don't know whether he used this method i was just recounting what I did .

Oh I see. Yes , this method is very effective. Ive not seen all the programme , is this what Graeme recommended ? he usually drags dogs around . In a TV programme on ch 4 he put a long line on a great dane with a head halter
The reason Im asking is that , he seems pretty keen on using punitive method and that I think cancels out any positive reinforcement he uses.

The problem is that he's using dogs for our entertainment to their detriment and he is misleading people into believing that dogs can be " cured " of their "bad behaviour" that easily.

 

[Dibbythedog]

I had not watched the programme before I tried this I don't know whether he used this method i was just recounting what I did .

Oh I see, sorry , I missed your point there.

 

[Free spirit]

Oh I see, sorry , I missed your point there.

The offer of the training lead still stands.

 

[Dibbythedog]

Thanks thats very kind. I have one somewhere . I used it with pip jr but he doesnt need it now.

 

[Edie]

We trained edie on a long line and a 10 metre retracting lead with a whistle and smelly sausage it took about 6 weeks to 1st take off retracting lead then long line gosh that was nerve racking when we released her she ran and ran but when whistled as long as no birds around came straight back lots of praise and a treat. I still use the long lead when we visit the coast because its a nature reserve and she is bird reactive. But otherwise her recall is excellent

 

[Free spirit]

We trained edie on a long line and a 10 metre retracting lead with a whistle and smelly sausage it took about 6 weeks to 1st take off retracting lead then long line gosh that was nerve racking when we released her she ran and ran but when whistled as long as no birds around came straight back lots of praise and a treat. I still use the long lead when we visit the coast because its a nature reserve and she is bird reactive. But otherwise her recall is excellent

We trained edie on a long line and a 10 metre retracting lead with a whistle and smelly sausage it took about 6 weeks to 1st take off retracting lead then long line gosh that was nerve racking when we released her she ran and ran but when whistled as long as no birds around came straight back lots of praise and a treat. I still use the long lead when we visit the coast because its a nature reserve and she is bird reactive. But otherwise her recall is excellent

 

[Free spirit]

Sometimes I just despair over some of the posters on this site. Do they actually read back what they have posted ,have they never heard of live and let.live. Why must they yammer on and on.about how the only way to.train a dog is their way. What is wrong with them why can,t they open their minds. Look i don,t give a tinkers cuss how you train your dog. Stop trying to blind us with science. Empty vessels definitely make the most noise. Nobody had even heard of a behaviourist when I was young and.we all still managed to train our dogs our own way
Methinks the Emperor has no clothes.

 

[JudyN]

Sometimes I just despair over some of the posters on this site. Do they actually read back what they have posted ,have they never heard of live and let.live. Why must they yammer on and on.about how the only way to.train a dog is their way. What is wrong with them why can,t they open their minds. Look i don,t give a tinkers cuss how you train your dog. Stop trying to blind us with science. Empty vessels definitely make the most noise. Nobody had even heard of a behaviourist when I was young and.we all still managed to train our dogs our own way
Methinks the Emperor has no clothes.

Many people who 'yammer on' are behaviourists who have had to deal with the fallout when people have trained using punishment, corrections, setting a dog up to fail, based on the 'dominance' theory which has now been disproved and shown to be entirely based on poor science. They have seen dogs completely shut down, who don't dare offer any behaviour for fear of the consquences, and seen dogs euthanased after biting someone.

For most dogs, you can 'get away with' these methods; others will either be damaged (to some extent) or damage you. Positive methods work with the way a dog's brain works - he is motivated and happy to do what is asked, he genuinely wants to please (which some breeds do naturally, but others don't) - rather than ask him to suppress his desires.

For me, I have a dog who, if I had used 'dominance methods', alpha rolling, ordering him to do something or physically removing him from the sofa etc., would by now have been euthanased.

That is why I yammer on about it. I don't want others to go down a training path that could result in their dog being killed, because an 'expert' told them to do it. Believe me, it happens.

 

[Dibbythedog]

Sometimes I just despair over some of the posters on this site. Do they actually read back what they have posted ,have they never heard of live and let.live. Why must they yammer on and on.about how the only way to.train a dog is their way. What is wrong with them why can,t they open their minds. Look i don,t give a tinkers cuss how you train your dog. Stop trying to blind us with science. Empty vessels definitely make the most noise. Nobody had even heard of a behaviourist when I was young and.we all still managed to train our dogs our own way
Methinks the Emperor has no clothes.

What a strange post, I don,t understand why you are complaining. Ive trained my dog recall the same way as you and so has Edie.
I made a comment to you about Graeme using a long line with a headcollar , that is just plain stupidity as it can badly damage a dogs neck.