Drug Testing Any Ideas

[weathergirls]

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can you not contact the nearest greyhound stadium to where our straight meetings are to be held and find out who they use , the bend meetings i assume you have sorted. There is a full list of greyhound stadiums available on the net. To use a S.RN etc; whilst sounding suitable at first ,I don,t think is a good idea. I would be very surprised if the H.F.L would accept it. As I see it there are only two alternatives drug testing is either done correctly whatever the cost and we have to finance it on top of the membership and race fees (cannot be financed from existing funds ) or we srap it. There is time for the National Committee to get together and do a full costing of the excercise and ballot the members before the start of the 2005 season.

 

[Doreen Hopkins]

Hi Denise,I have been advised not to post my e-mail address on here but I can send it to you by post if you want me to.

I would be grateful for any info that you have, then I can look to see if there is a vet/lab in the area that we race so that will cut down on cost.

Also Pauline thanks for your idea, I will get in touch with the lab that we have been using to ask if they would accept samples taken by a nurse that also would save the BWRA money.

Thanks to you both you have been very helpful

Doreen

 

[Paws123]

No problem Doren you can always send me a personal message in here k9 thats a PM

 

[jeffb]

dee what mucsle increase do you get from viagra

 

[Paws123]

dee what mucsle increase do you get from viagra

I COULD TELL YOU WHAT MUSCLE IT INCREASES IN HUMANS BUT NOT ON HERE LOL

DON'T KNOW IF YOU READ IT RIGHT JEFF ..BUT IT STATES THAT testosterone which is a muscle building hormone NOT THAT ALL THEM LISTED IN THAT SENTENCE WERE MUSCLE INCREASER'S

 

[DavidH]

atlanta is on orandrone, i think it is a male hormone.to stop her seasons, half a tablet a day. i have found no problems with it maybe her weight is slightly more difficult to get her to 25lb. but she is normally25/26 :b could this prove positive if she was tested

 

[weathergirls]

according to my vet who is a good greyhound vet orandone are o.k they are however likely to take the edge off some bitches

 

[Paws123]

NGRC HERES A REPORT FROM THE NGRC ABOUT SURPRESSENTS QUITE GOOD READING

 

[Tony Taylor]

Orandrone is methyl testosterone the "male" hormone and is tecnicaly an ananabolic agent and a performance enhancing drug.

Most bitches (- as per the article Denise posted) tend to lose form after their season and I guess the oestrus suppresant effect of orandrone may not totaly eleviate this. I have previously used orandrone and the bitch lost form anyway so I might as well have let her have a season.

Orandrone is unlikely to have any measurable anabolic effects if given as prescribed by the vet but may if given long term and is a convenient excuse for giving an anabolic agent, methyl testosterone, with the intention of cheating.

AFAIK the BWRA does not test for testosterone so you can dope your dog with immunity with this agent if you want to cheat.

 

[Honeybee]

Tony, I understand what you are saying regarding "Bitch Suppressants". In the Greyhound star Vets are often discussing topics on "stopping" bitches (Greyhounds). If you have a 6 month bitch (and we are fortunate that we never have) you only get approx. 3 months decent racing in 6 months. The Greyhound Trainers use suppressants for bitches and this is not classified as "cheating" as they are tested and not disqualified - so how can they be "Enhancing Performing Classed Drugs?" I find a lot of what is being said, as I'm sure others do, very confusing. I say we follow the Greyhound Trainers and you can't go wrong - if they don't know what you can and cannot give you dogs/bitches who does!!! (I'm not talking Drugs here but suppliments only) They advertise the suppliments in the Greyhound Star so they must be "safe" to use - including Suppressants for those who wish to use them. I do know there are certain "Suppressants" have been a big topic in the Greyhound Star" but I don't think the one you mentioned was one of them.

 

[Ash]

I have learnt alot of useful facts from this topic and got confused alot!!!

Hope everyone had a good Xmas Whats the weather like up there????

It's cold down here so must be Freezing up there.

 

[Paws123]

Amazing Grace comes into season every 5 months, then losses performance until shes 16 weeks out that only gives us 1 month decent racing with her. She has just gone 3 years old and has just had her 7th season

We have not suppressed her, as many years ago we got an injection from the vet for a bitch and she lost yards and never came back to usual racing standard.

But under our therapists advise we are going to try her this year.

 

[Tony Taylor]

The Greyhound Trainers use suppressants for bitches and this is not classified as "cheating" as they are tested and not disqualified - so how can they be "Enhancing Performing Classed Drugs?"

Orandrone uses methyl testosterone as its active agent to suppress oestrus, and methyl testosterone is definatly an androgenic anabolic steroid (AAS)and can be used as such to cheat.

It is acceptable to the NGRC for a number of reasons;

1) Dosage of methyl testosterone is quite small in Orandrone compared with that likely to be used by those using methyl testosterone as an AAS to cheat. Since tests will show the levels the NGRC will know if the methyl testosterone is from Orandrone etc or has been given as an AAS - in theory. Orandrone can be used to mask cheating.

2) The NGRC is run as a business and one of its main aims is to please the bookmakers. It can be argued it makes more sense to have a theoretical advantage and performance improvement by using a low dose AAS but have consistant performance than have the big drops in performance caused by oestrus that could lead to a betting coup.

3) Stadiums and trainers need dogs to run and if a bitch cycles twice a year that can be a lot of time off the track. It is perhaps better to have the dogs running.

It's a pragmatic approach by the NGRC. I doubt any bitch on Orandrone actually gains an advantage by the AAS effects but allowing its controlled use pleases everyone.

It's a pity the BWRA can't take a more sensible approach over theobromine.

 

[Paws123]

Have to agree with tony on this one..

There is a persistent urban legend that Chocolate contains caffeine. It would seem that this rumor is based primarily on a confusion between two similar alkaloids: caffeine and Theobromine. Theobromine is the active ingredient in Chocolate and it occurs only in Cacao. The two stimulants are related and have a similar structures, but are very different chemicals with different properties, effects and origins. There are of course, some Chocolate products that have added caffeine, but it does not occur naturally in Chocolate.

It is actually quite common to see references that confuse Caffeine and Theobromine. Many people and some semi-scientific sources confuse the two. Stollwerck, for example, says in one place Chocolate contains 1.2% Theobromine and 0.2% Caffeine, but in another place it says just 1.4% Caffeine and doesn't mention Theobromine, which is obviously wrong.

There is no scientific substantiation that Chocolate contains caffeine, and a great deal of evidence that it does not. The Biochemist, (Apr/May 1993, p 15) did chemical composition tests where they specifically distinguished between Caffeine and Theobromine. They found regularly up to 1.3% by weight Theobromine in Chocolate. They also found other pharmacologically active compounds including up to 2.20% Phenylethylamine up to 1.54% Tele- methylhistamine and occasionally up to 5.82% Serotonin. They could not detect any Caffeine at all.

I have yet to see a dependable chemical reference that includes Caffeine in Chocolate. (The Merck Index, 12th Edition says that a very small amount of Caffeine is found in the hulls of of the Cacao seeds, the hulls are discarded before processing.)

People seem to assume that caffeine is the only stimulant. Theobromine clearly has stimulant properties, so people reflexively attribute those effects to caffeine -- even though many of the effects are fundamentally different from caffeine. I guess they think it is easier to just say it is caffeine. I believe that many people casually refer to caffeine, when they really mean a whole class of chemicals called xanthines, of which caffeine is but one example. This is roughly equivalent to calling apes, human, because both are primates and humans are the more familiar type primate. Both are primates, but the differences are pretty obvious.

All though i disagree with people giving dogs chocolate as a treat esp during and after racing, as the effects in chocolate to canines can be fatal.Chocolate contains theobromine, a toxicant responsible for causing canine illness. Signs of theobrimine poisoning include vomiting, excessive thirst, diarrhoea, restlessness and agitation.

These signs usually develop in six to eight hours. Kidney damage, seizures, heart rhythm irregularities and death may result, in severe cases. There is no real antidote for a theobromine overdose.

So what about the chocolate nibbles made especially for dogs - do they contain theobromine? The answer here is no. Manufacturers have formulated them to contain extra vitamins and minerals and to have various added qualities.

They are made especially for dogs, and although they are called choc drops, the name is not accurate - they are made of carob, and are therefore quite safe.

 

[Paws123]

As far i can see the bwra will have to look for another vet or professional person to take the test and stay with the lab they used last August, as this may be the cheapest option, or allow the hfl to test the samples and let some one familiar with taking samples do it, or scrap the whole drug testing.

But do think a voting ballot should go out to all bwra members to find out what people want.

 

[tanyia]

The last lab did a good job. Having had dealings with them with the NHS I know there good.

 

[Vicky]

Been here before but i'll add my two penneth again.

Sorry Doreen not much help on the vets names & numbers though.

My opinion is either do it properly (ie vet present & a FULL breakdown of the sample) or not at all. To carry on the way we are doing isn't doing anything for the sport.

Seeing as it's a hobby can we as a sport afford for it to be carried out correctly? I personally dont think so. There are a lot of people who can only just afford to race their dogs after paying fuel costs / entry fee's, as it is.

There will always be a dog who's wins you question that will slip through the net & never get tested - you can't win.

I don't like cheats as much as the next person but if it comes down to it i can always refuse to race against people i suspect may have been using something. If there are people out there sad enough to be using stuff then let them get on with it, to me it stands out like a sore thumb & they're fooling no-one but themselves, not only that but they can't have any respect for their so called pet.

In the words of Tony T "at least i can sleep at night"

 

[Karen-Coral]

I may as well add my thoughts on this also/ Firstly we can not stop testing /--that would be giving in to the minority that are hell bent on cheating /in order to brag that they have the fastest dog /bitch. Sadly these dogs or bitches do not live long and certainly never get to veteran stage--- how strange just look at one of the best dogs ever to grace the tracks Mad Mick/ still going great even after all he has acheived thats what i call a champion along with the likes of Good as Gold/he is a credit to Kev and whippet racing hard work and TLC not drugs and other substances/

The trouble with testing is that it should be done by a vet who is the only one who knows when he will turn up and test /he should be paid -to take X amount of tests / given a list of the meetings where testing could take place by the national body wanting them / then he and only he should just turn up unannounced /and test maybe with litmus/ and if it shows something- a full blown test should be carried out /that way no-one would know when they would be tested /they could be at any bwra or fed event and if caught made to pay for the test- its only the few and it does not need a detective to work out who they are- the dogs performance does that over the year and the dog wont be around much after its year of glory thats for sure!

 

[mutley]

blue goblin has been tested numerous times and yet we still had accusations going round that we were using drugs no one knows who is using them for sure ,,as the saying goes those who shout loudest this is not directed at any individual i think the whole testing issue is a farce and a waste of money like Vicky said if it cant be done properly with proficiency and trust then it shouldn't be done at all..cheats have to stand back look at what they have acheived and think well i didnt really win this did i :angry: this sport needs to get back to how it was years ago before testing took its toll

 

[Vicky]

it should be done by a vet who is the only one who knows when he will turn up and test

a VERY good idea in theory!