Endangered breeds

[Sezzy]

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Six rare-breed dog owners back bid to boost 'endangered' British pooches

 

[Violet Turner]

@Sezzy This is so bad that we are loosing some of our favourite breeds

 

[JoanneF]

Interesting. There are some surprises in that list, I wouldn't have expected to see CKCS, red setters or wirehaired fox terriers in the top 20.

 

[Josie]

Very interesting!

I know a little wirehaired fox terrier called Eric, he’s very cute!

 

[JudyN]

I was surprised by the Cavs too. A red setter owner I met on holiday mentioned that they are rare, but there are loads of them round here.

 

[FrankieDoodle]

I love red setters. They're so beautiful. Aren't most of the breeds on there working dogs, no?

It's really sad. We see a lot of pugs /crosses round here.

 

[JudyN]

I'm in two minds about this. These dogs were bred originally for a specific purpose and in some cases (notably the deerhound) that purpose is gone. I adore deerhounds, but they have such a short lifespan, and as they are slow to mature, they may only have a couple of years of adulthood before they decline.

We're also producing more crossbreeds, and though some of this is purely fashion - and though the current popularity of breeds such as pugs and Frenchies is also mostly fashion - some of these crosses and newly popular breeds make excellent pets, and may be much better adapted to modern life. Just travelling with a deerhound or an otterhound won't be without its challenges and may well involve buying a new car.

Also, they are also breeds that we have created ourselves, so a breed going extinct isn't quite the same as a species going extinct. A lot of the endangered breeds could be made healthier by introducing genes from other breeds - wouldn't it be better to do this rather than protect their purity? And of course, as they become rarer, the gene pool reduces which also isn't a good thing.

I would be very sad to live in a world without deerhounds, otterhounds and Dandie Dinmonts, but that would be for my benefit, not the benefit of the dogs.

People tell me I overthink things..... Can't think why

 

[Caro Perry]

I suspect it's sloppy reporting by the journalist. Cavalier King Charles spaniels are very popular but King Charles spaniel itself is on the KC endangered list! It's a rather smaller and lighter breed and not such a nice temperament as the Cavs ( having actually had one I wouldn't want another). Welshies were also on the list until very recently. Now they are just listed as "vulnerable".

A huge problem with the endangered breeds is that the gene pool is getting very very small which is not good for the long term health of the breed.

 

[JoanneF]

I suspect it's sloppy reporting by the journalist. Cavalier King Charles spaniels are very popular but King Charles spaniel itself is on the KC endangered list!

That makes a lot more sense! Thank you @Caro Perry

 

[Biker John]

Caro Perry, you beat me to that point. going a touch farther up the list to Lancashire Heelers, their are a number of none KC reg Heelers around, (my father used to breed them so I grew up with them and have always taken an interest in them). So if the KC changed its rules they could be used to increse the gene pool. As to Deerhounds I to would be very sad if they ceased, but JudyN as for taking them in a car, I used to know a Deerhound breeder that took three or four out to shows in quite a small car. I always had to laugh when she pulled up stopped the car and these large dogs all stood up.

 

[leashedForLife]

... [these] are... breeds, that we've created - a breed going extinct isn't the same as a species going extinct.

[Many] endangered breeds could be made healthier by introduced genes from other breeds - wouldn't it be better to do this, rather than protect their purity?
And of course, as they become rarer, the gene pool [shrinks] - which isn't a good thing.
...

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of course, the loss of a species is "worse" than the loss of a domesticated breed - however, each domestic breed is also unique & irreplaceable.
A Dutch-Belted dairy cow or an Ayreshire is not the U-S bog-standard b&w Holstein-Fresian, which has been so intensively "improved", Holsteins [as they're known here] are practically a different species: the dairy industry's sole focus is production, & as a result, Holsteins are milk-making factories - but they have little mothering instinct [so that separating them from the calf doesn't drop output much], they're lousy foragers, they're too bl**dy big & heavy, they're not thrifty... in short, they need lots of input to get that ginormous output. :shrug:

Losing any one breed or landrace of dog isn't the same as losing, say, the N AM barn swallow, or the Florida scrub-jay - but it's still a loss. The more diversity we've got & RETAIN in any domesticated species, the better.

My beef is that breeders are so crazed about winning a ribbon, they're catastrophically pruning the gene-pool of their much-loved breeds down to a stump - matador breeding, "line" breeding [which is nothing more nor less than less-intense IN-breeding... sorry, fellas], outrageous manipulation of genetics in the interest of a trophy -
witness the incredibly-profitable career of AVALANCHE as the leading sire of Rough Collie champions in the U.S.A., despite the inconvenient fact that he was the SON of a deliberately-produced double-merle sire, & Avalanche's sire will never be seen in any breed ring - he's virtually blind, near-deaf, & has crippling joint issues, but he "throws guaranteed color", which was all that was required of his sperm.

Avalanche was awarded the BoB & then BiS at the prestigious Westminster invitational - an all-champ show. He went on to cover practically every Rough Collie bitch who came into estrus over the next 3 years, coining money for his "respected" breeder.
This despite the fact that Avalanche himself is no great prize - he has nice markings & a pretty coat; structurally, he's a hot mess, vertical in front with a Hackney gait, & stilted behind with poor structure.

His pups inherited his poor structure & bad movement - but they, too, have been eagerly sought as sires & dams, & crowned with ribbons & championships. They can't even walk properly - but they get 1st Place?!

Ethics is much-more than "I feed my dog when s/he is hungry" - building one's breed, not tearing it down, is critical.

The whole concept of "closed registries" is a slow doom, unfortunately - U cannot close a gene-pool & keep it vigorous, with ongoing diversity. // But we can do much better at slowing the process, keeping as many & as varied genes as possible, & judiciously ADDING genes from related breeds, too.
Naturally, purists will scream at the very idea of swapping genes into 'pure' breeds, but when within-breed CoI reaches consanguinity that makes every Lithuanian Lugerhund the equivalent of a 1st-cousin to every other LL, that breed is a walking corpse - no matter how many individual Lugerhunds may exist, the effective breeding-popn is a tiny fraction of the real-world popn of Lugerhunds.

Any breeder who doesn't understand that, needs to go back to Genetics 101.
- terry

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[Josie]

@leashedForLife sometimes you make me forget what the point of the topic was with your responses

 

[leashedForLife]

@Josie - endangered dog-breeds.

Which, long-term & speaking genetically, is all of them.
- t

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[JoanneF]

@leashedForLife sometimes you make me forget what the point of the topic was with your responses

@leashedForLife - I don't say this as a criticism, your writing style is your choice - but I seldom read beyond your first sentence. It's just too hard work. Which is a pity because I am sure you have valid points to make.

 

[leashedForLife]

@leashedForLife - I don't say this as a criticism, your writing style is your choice - but I seldom read beyond your first sentence. It's just too hard work. Which is a pity because I am sure you have valid points to make.

.

No worries, @JoanneF - no offense taken.
Translation between American & Brit 'English' can be very difficult. Plus, my own writing is full of shorthand & idioms - but that's also the way that i speak.

cheers,
- terry

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[thedogsbeforetime]

I wonder of CKCS are declining because people are recognizing they are not a very healthy breed anymore, and aren't wanting to get a breed where their dog has a good chance of health issues / early death? Same with Dobermans, except for, Doberman people seem to be in denial that they need to do something for their breed, that these days is lucky to make it to double digits in age.

I feel like a lot of the breeds on that list have always been more "rare", and they have gone extinct yet, haha! I'd just say they'd continue to be rare.

But does Welsh Corgi relate to both Cardigan and Pembroke? I'm not sure about over the pond, but there is not a shortage of them at all over here in the states!

 

[Caro Perry]

Cavs are 10 a penny at the moment - the demand from the puppy mills to churn out "Cavapoos" is seeing to that - and they don't care about the health of their animals.

This is the list that the Sun journalist used for the article- they undoubtedly meant the King Charles Spaniel of which only 84 were registered in 2016 Vulnerable native breeds
https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/ge...nding-the-right-dog/vulnerable-native-breeds/
Unfortunately Cavs and KC are frequently confused by the media although they are recognised as different breeds