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Late as usual - but this time because I was in Belgium getting FCI lure coursing licences for three of the dogs :))

Breed records:

1. For what it is worth - I am maintaining a database of all whippet registrations from 1890 but I currently have holes between 1965 and 1982 because of the time it takes to enter the increased number now in Breed Records Supplements. I am addressing these but slowly.

2. Based on the above, I don't think we should take for granted that show whippets are invariably pure bred as registered.

3. My last litter contained a puppy with six toes and a dew claw on one hind foot. This is not uncommon in herding breeds (or whippet/sheltie crosses) but I have not heard of it in sighthounds. It seems to me to be more likely a"carried over" gene from way back than that both parents had a mutation of the same gene.

Vaccinations:

I tell my puppy clients to wait until the puppy is really settled until taking it for vaccination because stress can lower immune levels and I believe it is often a factor in poor reactions to vaccinations (and as Mark said, in the possible retraction of a testicle).

Warranties:

If clients want a puppy partially vaccinated before they have it, I warrant it healthy on the day the vet checked it. Otherwise, not.

Every puppy I sell can/must be returned to me at any time of its life, without a reason being given. If it is within a month of sale and healthy/uninjured they would get their money back (it hasn't happened yet),older than that would depend on circumstances. They must agree not to pass it on to a third party without my written consent ("welfare of the dog being paramount") - not enforceable in law but I try to get over to them, tactfully, that if they are getting divorced, bankrupt, homeless or any other little local difficulty, I am going to be better able to take care of their dog than they are. This has once saved a whippet from being snatched by the RSPCA after a bereavement. And once got one back from what seemed to have been an abusive home.

Further on vaccinations - re Sweden World Show/Sighthound shows

Can anyone tell me if it is only distemper (other than rabies) that is required for European shows? My dogs' general combination one expires July 7 and as I normally don't boost but give only lepto thereafter, I really want to give the minimum necessary.

Gay

www.moonlake.co.uk
 
I follow the new veterinary protocols for vaccinations here in the US, i.e. less vaccines starting later. The first distemper/parvo is at between 8-10 weeks, the second follows 4 weeks after the first, the rabies vaccine no sooner than 4 weeks after that and then at 1 year after the second "puppy" distemper/parvo another distemper/parvo. Thereafter, it's only rabies and titres for distemper/parvo and I haven't needed to give another distemper/parvo yet...Also I do not vaccinate for bordatella, corona or lymes. I'm kind of in a quandry about the lymes/tick situation, though, because, like Karen Lee, I live out in the sticks and ticks are a problem. I used to vaccinate for lymes, but I still had a vaccinated dog come up with lymes. I hate to use those 'cattle dip' products like Frontline, etc to control ticks (fortunately fleas are not a problem). Any suggestions on the tick front?

As for the puppy socialization vs. controlled environment debate, I typically try to take a middle of the road approach. The puppies are certainly introduced and exposed to all of my whippets and other dogs and cats and select visitors (shoes left outside, hands scrubbed and disinfected before playing with the pups). After their first vaccination, like Karen, I will also take them to a show where they will stay in the motorhome in our staked out area of ground or they'll go to a local lure coursing practice to hang out.

As for Carol's question regarding auto immune diseases, it is my understanding that often the auto immune diseases in dogs are either caused by or express themselves as a result of a reaction to vaccinations-most frequently rabies--- or other environmentally introduced stimuli.

Jalynn
 
I have read about epigenetic studies done recently, which indicate that environmental influences in certain environmental stages of our ancestors (grandparents in that case) can predispose us to, or protect us from certain diseases, such as heart disease and diabetes. Therefore it is quite possible that some problems, just surfacing now in dogs, could originate in past few generations. They may have not existed in the lines forever, and what we do to our dogs at present may affect the health of their grand children.

In any case for me the first priority when choosing sire for my litters is that i have to like the dog and he, and his immediate ancestors, must not double up on my bitch's weaknesses. Only then I look closely at the pedigree and hope there will not be any shared ancestors within the immediate generations. Actually, considering how much our dogs are inbred back in their pedigrees, I would be thrilled to do a total outcross if such a creature would exist. :)
 
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moonlake said:
Late as usual - but this time because I was in Belgium getting FCI lure coursing licences for three of the dogs :))
Breed records:

1.  For what it is worth - I am maintaining a database of all whippet registrations from 1890 but I currently have holes between 1965 and 1982 because of the time it takes to enter the increased number now in Breed Records Supplements.  I am addressing these but slowly.

2.  Based on the above, I don't think we should take for granted that show whippets are invariably pure bred as registered.

3. My last litter contained a puppy with six toes and a dew claw on one hind foot.  This is not uncommon in herding breeds (or whippet/sheltie crosses) but I have not heard of it in sighthounds.  It seems to me to be more likely a"carried over" gene from way back than that both parents had a mutation of the same gene. 

Vaccinations:

I tell my puppy clients to wait until the puppy is really settled until taking it for vaccination because stress can lower immune levels and I believe it is often a factor in poor reactions to vaccinations (and as Mark said, in the possible retraction of a testicle). 

Warranties:

If clients want a puppy partially vaccinated before they have it, I warrant it healthy on the day the vet checked it.  Otherwise, not.

Every puppy I sell can/must be returned to me at any time of its life, without a reason being given.  If it is within a month of sale and healthy/uninjured they would get their money back (it hasn't happened yet),older than that would depend on circumstances.  They must agree not to pass it on to a third party without my written consent ("welfare of the dog being paramount") - not enforceable in law but I try to get over to them, tactfully, that if they are getting divorced, bankrupt, homeless or any other little local difficulty, I am going to be better able to take care of their dog than they are.  This has once saved a whippet from being snatched by the RSPCA after a bereavement.  And once got one back from what seemed to have been an abusive home.

Further on vaccinations - re Sweden World Show/Sighthound shows

Can anyone tell me if it is only distemper (other than rabies) that is required for European shows?  My dogs' general combination one expires July 7 and as I normally don't boost but give only lepto thereafter, I really want to give the minimum necessary.

Gay

www.moonlake.co.uk

Click to expand...
There are different rules in a number of European countries so you would have to check what is required for the specific country you're going to. In Sweden to enter a dog show you only neeed a distempter (but off course rabies shots and tests and so on being able to enter Sweden) that is not older than 4 years old.

Henrik
 
In response to Carol's request

These are the immune mediated dieases I have come across in whippets. This is collated from my information, and that of a couple of other concerned breeders and from Jo Tucker who is very well known for tackling immune mediated inherited diseases in the Beardie but also gets many referrals from the whippet world.

The affected dogs are by no means all from the same lines and are from different parts of the country. For the sake of balance I have also had reports from continental Europe. It would be surprising if it were not a worldwide issue with the breed. When I had a bitch with an undiagnosed steroid responsive condition I spoke to dozens of whippet owners whose dogs had "been put on steroids" which is of course the standard treatment to supress the immune system. They had dogs that had not been diagnosed definitively with a particular diseases but still had an immune response type undiagnosed illness. The most common seems to be meningitis, but it appears to be assumed rather than diagnosed in most cases and I believe is almost used as a catch all term.

Several years ago The Whippet Club ran a seminar on breeding and immune mediated disease. It would be surprising for the committee to have done that had they not been concerned that there was a problem. We may therefore assume that sadly the incidence of these conditions is higher than some may wish to believe.

POLIARTHRITIS

SYSTEMIC LUPUS ERYTHEMATOSUS

ADDISON'S DISEASE

IM COLLITIS

IM MENINGITIS

IM THROMBOCYTOPENIA

CUTANEAOUS AND SYSTEMIC VASCULITIS

HYPOTHYROIDISM

Symmetrical lupoid onychodystrophy (toe nails fall out)

IM KIDNEY NEPHRITIS

IM SKIN DISEASES

I am happy to say that I have not yet had the experience of living with a dog with one of these specific illnesses but I believe that is mostly down to luck, and that there but for the grace of God go I.

Cathie
 
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Someone on the list also spoke of multiple recurring corns in the feet of their dog(s) - I haven't come across this before but given that corns can (sometimes) have a viral origin, I wonder if this is an indicator of immune suppression - or a breakdown of the dermal junctions at the skin/pad interface.

It should be pointed out in case anyone is in any doubt at all, that the whippet is one of the healthiest pure bred breeds there is. (We wouldn't be having this conversation were this not the case - I'm not interested in investing in the planned obsolescence of some of the breeds. )

it should also be pointed out that this doesn't mean the bar is necessarily very high - just because the general public accepts that some inherited conditions exist in every breed doesn't mean it has to be that way.

and

it doesn't mean the bar is getting any higher. In fact , given what Natalia said in her sterling posts earlier about immunity and genetic diversity, it is likely universally to be getting lower.

From what people have said to me about other breeds in which they have an involvement, the levels of denial and downright intimidation practised in these breeds (not the whippet ) is staggering and amounts in my view to professional negligence on the part of those breeding. If the whippet breeders can re-set the standards of honesty, integrity and foresight, the dog world would be an interestingly different (and in my view better) place.

thank you all once again

manda scott
 
I could also add

GLOMERULONEPHRITIS

PEMPHIGUS DISEASE

DEMODEX

DISCOID LUPUS
 
Thank you Cathie. I must admit that I am very surprised , at both the numbers of conditions and the fact that they are so widespread. I know I don't talk to everyone in the world, but I am in contact with alot of Whippet people here in the USA and have heard very little about immune related diseases in Whippets. Even enviornmentally triggered incidents are not common to my knowledge.

Carol
 
I know four people personally who have had Addisonian Whippets in the last ten years here, and know that there are a number of others including close relatives of two of the above Addisonian Whippets.

As for the rest of it, the crumbling toenails is definitely here, but rare.

Auto-immune Haemolytic Anemia has been posted about by people whose Whippets have been diagnosed with it on other boards and e-mail lists I subscribe to.

These problems are certainly present in the US and Canada (some of the Addisonian Whippets are from Canada), but it is still quite a rare problem.

It's very important to document these things so that any patterns can be uncovered. Not just pedigree, but also any other pertinent health information that might show the presence of a "trigger".

Karen Lee
 
seaspot_run said:
I know four people personally who have had Addisonian Whippets in the last ten years here, and know that there are a number of others including close relatives of two of the above Addisonian Whippets. 
As for the rest of it, the crumbling toenails is definitely here, but rare.

Auto-immune Haemolytic Anemia has been posted about by people whose Whippets have been diagnosed with it on other boards and e-mail lists I subscribe to.

These problems are certainly present in the US and Canada (some of the Addisonian Whippets are from Canada), but it is still quite a rare problem.

It's very important to document these things so that any patterns can be uncovered.  Not just pedigree, but also any other pertinent health information that might show the presence of a "trigger".

Karen Lee

Click to expand...
I would say that you must document it while it is rare Karen, I urge American breeders to do so and to be honest about what they have observed in terms of any immune mediated illnesses. I have a feeling that American whippets have less of this problem and that British whippets have fewer heart problems.

I am also struck by the litter size disparity between the continents. Larger litters than we have here, seem to the norm in the Sates. I frequently hear of 11 or more pups being born on your side of the pond. I know that reduced litter size can be a result of inbreeding depression. It would be interesting to see a comparison of the average COIs from both populations.

Cathie
 
Is there anyone on here who can work out IC for me as i havnt the relavent software.

Or has any one got any software they can recommend?

Cheers Jan
 
jayp said:
Is there anyone on here who can work out IC for me as i havnt the relavent software.Or has any one got any software they can recommend?

Cheers Jan

Click to expand...

I think Natalia has the software, so would be the best person to ask - she's on earlier in the thread if you don't get a reply now

and

nothing to do with this - why do I come up as 'anonymous user' in the list of 'people reading this thread'? Is there a way to become a real-person? :)

thanks

m
 
Eceni said:
nothing to do with this - why do I come up as 'anonymous user' in the list of 'people reading this thread'?  Is there a way to become a real-person?  :)
thanks

m

Click to expand...

Try logging out and the logging in again. You will need to be able to remember your password though.
 
jayp said:
Is there anyone on here who can work out IC for me as i havnt the relavent software.Or has any one got any software they can recommend?

Cheers Jan

Click to expand...
Most pedigree database software will work out the IC for you.
 
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jayp said:
Is there anyone on here who can work out IC for me as i havnt the relavent software.Or has any one got any software they can recommend?

Cheers Jan

Click to expand...
I can help you :) Just send me the pedigrees.
 
i dont know if anybody will be interested in attending but The animal health trust near newmarket are holding several one day genetics for dog breeder courses through the summer, the cost is fifty pounds and includes a lunch,in future i think they might be doing specific breeds
 
WIGGLEY said:
i dont know if anybody will be interested in attending but The animal health trust near newmarket are holding several one day genetics for dog breeder courses through the summer, the cost is fifty pounds and includes a lunch,in future i think they might be doing specific breeds
Click to expand...

ohhhh send me details please hun :thumbsup:
 
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