Help desperately needed

[Deleted member 91923]

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Hi. I’ve posted on here before when my Cocker was very poorly and was very grateful for the help. My Cocker ended up, 4 weeks ago, with a diagnosis of severe pancreatitis and surgery to remove his spleen which had a tumour and was then diagnosed with kidney failure. It’s been a nightmare. I have 2 other dogs, one is a Kokoni, a rescue from Cyprus. We’ve had the Kokoni for just over a year and a half. During that time there were 3 or 4 fights between my Cocker and my Kokoni... Kokoni goes up to Cocker, Cocker grumbles at him and it turns into a fight in an instant, started by the kokoni, where Cocker ALWAYS is worse off and gets injured. 3 days ago there was a horrendous fight between them and my poor Cocker ended up with his lip in the kokoni’s jaw and it took me about a minute to prise them apart. It was terrifying. Since then I have intervened 2 more times before another fight has erupted. My Cocker has been so poorly and I’m worried that the stress will send him spiralling downhill or that there will be a horrendous injury. I’m constantly watching them and constantly very much on edge now. I can’t keep them separated, that wouldn’t work. Should I consider rehoming my Kokoni? We love him very much and he is, apart from these awful bursts, actually adorable. I am in absolute bits over this so please be kind. I don’t think my eldest son would ever forgive me if we have the kokoni rehomed

 

[JoanneF]

This probably is not what you want to hear but if you don't want to rehome either of them you will need to put in place a means of keeping them separate. Cocker are known for resource guarding, which is possibly why he grumbled (even guarding the spot he was lying in) and your other dog has failed to observe the grumble as a warning to back off. Because he isn't following the instruction from the cocker, I don't think you can trust them to sort anything out amicably.

 

[JudyN]

I agree with @JoanneF. Remember, you will be doing this for the benefit of the dogs, rehoming one (and kokoni would be the obvious choice as the cocker has been under so much stress) isn't an admittance of failure - it's the right thing for the dogs. Your son will simply have to accept this, even if it takes a long time. It wouldn't be good for him to realise one day that he was responsible for even worse damage to one of the dogs.

 

[Josie]

as well as causing great stress on your dogs it must also be causing a lot of stress with you and your son by never relaxing when they are around each other and witnessing them fight.

It doesn’t sound great for any of you.

You have to think of the bigger picture for you all and although it would be horrendous at the time for you and your son it may be best to rehome your kokoni

 

[Deleted member 91923]

Thank you so much for your replies.
Yes it is extremely stressful. X

 

[Violet Turner]

I'm so sorry to hear the stress of this situation. I feel awful to say this but if your constantly put on edge you way want to reconsider having 1 or the other. You could speak with your local rehoming centre and see what they could do to help; if not do you have a friend or family member who is currently looking for a dog? Because if a friend/family member has him you can at least see him around sometimes. In regards to the meantime just keep them separate by putting up baby gates around the house or keeping them completely separated (I.e. in different rooms). I really hope this information makes sense and that your okay as i know what a difficult time your going through.

 

[Deleted member 91923]

Thank you Violet. I’ve spoken to a dog beahviourist who suggested that we muzzle the kokoni whilst working hard on training him. We think the recent attacks are because our Cocker is currently on special wet food for kidney failure and he smells of it all the time particularly as food is getting stuck in his jowls - the kokoni was licking up bits of food as it was coming out of the Cocker’s mouth when he shook his head. So it seems that this was heightening his behaviour. We will, of course, have to see how things go with the training and while our Cocker is still recovering but thank you for your help in the meantime. Xx

 

[Deleted member 91923]

It would be logistically impossible for us to keep them separate and would also be very stressful for the kokoni but thank you for the suggestion xx

 

[Violet Turner]

It would be logistically impossible for us to keep them separate and would also be very stressful for the kokoni but thank you for the suggestion xx

Its fine... Hope the dog training works

 

[JudyN]

The danger of the muzzle is that it doesn't address the kokoni's emotions - if anything, it could make him feel more stressed. And your cocker will be as stressed as ever as he doesn't know the kokoni can't bite him.

The kokoni could also be attacking because he can sense that your cocker is ill/weak - it's common for dogs to attack a weaker/injured/ill dog. That's not to say that the wet food doesn't play a part, but it could be more complicated than this.

Bear in mind that if you can't keep them separated, you would have to supervise them 100% of the time - even with intensive training you may never be able to trust them together.

Just my opinion - and I'm not an expert, so of course listen to other opinions too ;-)

 

[Deleted member 91923]

Thank you. It’s so tricky. Yes I know I might never be able to trust them together again but our only other option really is to rehome him so we want to try this option first. Behaviourist said to try training kokoni to keep away from our Cocker while he is recovering. And of course, with kidney failure, he may never recover and could go downhill very fast at any time. If our dear Cocker doesn’t actually have long and we’ve given our kokoni away ..... O
Plus our Westie is very close to our Kokoni, they’re best friends.
It’s so tricky.
The muzzle won’t be on 24/7. I’ll be giving him breaks from it (and of course to eat) and will take him to another room with me for muzzle-free time.
I took him out earlier to get a good muzzle and he’s not stressed with it at all - quite happy and waggy tail. At the moment. X

 

[Deleted member 91923]

When our Cocker was extremely poorly and very weak for about 3 weeks, both our Kokoni and our Westie were fantastic around him. X

 

[JudyN]

I took him out earlier to get a good muzzle and he’s not stressed with it at all - quite happy and waggy tail. At the moment. X

That's a good start - I hope you have a harmonious household again soon

 

[merlina]

I think you're going through a nightmarish time! So sorry to hear about your cocker's health problems. I think also it comes as a shock to find dogs think so differently to us. A weakened pack member can be an opportunity! three years ago when our cocker boy was diagnosed with cancer we knew we didn't have long with him- we were lucky in that a family member took our other dog for the last six months. If that's at all possible I'd consider it. If not two things-if you can't keep them separate all the time you can keep them apart at what you know are flash points- re food which you've identified. Some of the day they can be pals. Second we've had dogs that fought...what worked for us is a jug of water IN EVERY ROOM. When the fight starts the aggressor gets in straight in the face! Immediately. You get wet curtains or floor but it's worth it. It's often enough. Good luck.

 

[Deleted member 91923]

I think you're going through a nightmarish time! So sorry to hear about your cocker's health problems. I think also it comes as a shock to find dogs think so differently to us. A weakened pack member can be an opportunity! three years ago when our cocker boy was diagnosed with cancer we knew we didn't have long with him- we were lucky in that a family member took our other dog for the last six months. If that's at all possible I'd consider it. If not two things-if you can't keep them separate all the time you can keep them apart at what you know are flash points- re food which you've identified. Some of the day they can be pals. Second we've had dogs that fought...what worked for us is a jug of water IN EVERY ROOM. When the fight starts the aggressor gets in straight in the face! Immediately. You get wet curtains or floor but it's worth it. It's often enough. Good luck.

Thank you so much. Useful information. I’m sorry to hear about your Cocker x

 

[leashedForLife]

.

I would not suggest relying on a "pitcher of water" to break up any fight.

PREVENTING fights or even opportunities to fight, should be the focus - as every single altercation, however petty, RAISES THE ODDS of future fights that are serious.

I would aim to separate them completely except for those times when each dog is handled by one person, an adult who is capable of controlling that dog. Making the presence of the other dog At A Distance the predictor that good things are about to happen, will also help.
So i would use Open Bar / Closed Bar with both dogs on leash, each dog at a distance where they are aware of the other, but comfortable -- ABLE to respond to cues. // However, i wouldn't be cueing - i'd be treating, in a steady stream.
After a minute to 90-secs, REMOVE Dog A; all goodies stop. Wait 5-mins, bring Dog A back, yay! feed feed feed... a minute to 90-secs, REMOVE Dog B - all treats stop. 5-mins later, Dog B returns, yay! -- a steady flow of high-value, pea-sized to half-pea size tidbits resumes.
These "rains" of tidbits only happen when both dogs are in the same area, but safely separated, on leash.
Distance is reduced only as they each progress, & on any day, either dog might need more space.

- terry

.

 

[Barnyboy]

Hi. I’ve posted on here before when my Cocker was very poorly and was very grateful for the help. My Cocker ended up, 4 weeks ago, with a diagnosis of severe pancreatitis and surgery to remove his spleen which had a tumour and was then diagnosed with kidney failure. It’s been a nightmare. I have 2 other dogs, one is a Kokoni, a rescue from Cyprus. We’ve had the Kokoni for just over a year and a half. During that time there were 3 or 4 fights between my Cocker and my Kokoni... Kokoni goes up to Cocker, Cocker grumbles at him and it turns into a fight in an instant, started by the kokoni, where Cocker ALWAYS is worse off and gets injured. 3 days ago there was a horrendous fight between them and my poor Cocker ended up with his lip in the kokoni’s jaw and it took me about a minute to prise them apart. It was terrifying. Since then I have intervened 2 more times before another fight has erupted. My Cocker has been so poorly and I’m worried that the stress will send him spiralling downhill or that there will be a horrendous injury. I’m constantly watching them and constantly very much on edge now. I can’t keep them separated, that wouldn’t work. Should I consider rehoming my Kokoni? We love him very much and he is, apart from these awful bursts, actually adorable. I am in absolute bits over this so please be kind. I don’t think my eldest son would ever forgive me if we have the kokoni rehomed

I have a cocker spaniel who I adore and if another dog harmed him I would be mortified. Personally I would have the Kokoni rehomed before he goes too far and you end up losing your poor Cocker. I would also be terrified about having children around the Kokoni too. It sounds like he needs a home were he is the only dog so as not to cause any more harm to others.....