I Can't Keep Clara Or My Puppy Byron Any More...

[Lolcoe]

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I understand you are doing the best for your little blue in looking for a new home with whippet lovers rather than any Tom,Dick or Harry but while people are being brutally honest here, i will be. Having looked back at your previous posts you obviously has a problem with illness in one of your whippies, which anyone knows makes a dog miserable and grumpy, therefore introducing a puppy to your brood wasnt the right thing to do in the first place. All pups can seem nuisances to adult dogs and any ill feelings can be multiplied and make aggression worse.

I can honestly say this after bitter experiences with our Greyhounds but we are lucky in the fact that we could split them up as they are kennelled and just shuffled them around a bit.

The money issue, i understand that you have paid out for him and want to reap it back, but personally i would just hand him back to the breeder and its then under their discretion if they give you a refund or not.

I hope you find a good home for him soon, if i hadnt of just got a pup i would have had him and joined the rest of the rabble of non-pedders, but as it is my Diamond needs her time to settle in before introducing newbies.

Good Luck

 

[~Sarah~]

I opened this thread thinking I was going to read a sad post about a person doing the right thing by their dogs. It started out that way... but as I scrolled down I was really shocked by some of the "brutally honest" responses. Some of these posts appear quite vicious, even if they may not have been intended to be so.
Nobody on the outside can know exactly what is going with a situation and therefore we can't possibly judge someone so harshly. Re-homing a much-loved pet must be the hardest decision to come to, and even more difficult to carry out. Rosalind has been honest enough to say she would like some money - and why on earth shouldn't someone pay for a puppy? I did. Most of us did! There are rarely free whippet puppies.

Good luck, Rosalind, I hope you find little Byron exactly the right sort of home, and that you do manage to keep in touch and follow his progress. He's a super-looking little chap, and you must be heartbroken about the whole situation.

Regarding money - who's to say what is a reasonable price for a puppy? A breeder has the same costs in rearing the litter in a decent way, whether the puppies have a pedigree or not. But that is a side issue, and should be on a different thread for open discussion.

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Well said Helen - I totally agree. :thumbsup:

I couldn't believe what I was reading in some of the posts. Let's face it, little Byron is only 13 weeks so still a tiny puppy, and I'm sure won't have learned any bad behaviour yet. At least Rosalind was being honest and open in stating the facts. I did not have Dolly until she was about 14 weeks, and I certainly didn't expect a freebie.

Poor Rosalind - it must be so upsetting having to rehome little Byron (and Clara) and at least by putting the details on K9 she is thinking of his best interests and trying to attract the right home. I'm sure she didn't expect all the abuse. Why should she not recoup her money? Plenty of show breeders run on puppies and then part with them if they are not up to scratch (at much older ages than Byron) - nobody seems to question this, and they are not normally free - at least I have never heard of it.

Good luck Rosalind :luck: :luck: - I hope everything sorts itself out for you. We are not all out to judge you.

 

[BeeJay]

Sorry to hear that you are in this situation.

I had two bitches who would periodically try to kill each other. It's not nice. Mine didn't fight at the frequency that yours have. It's very stressful for dogs and owners.

My thoughts re Bryon are these. Money and dogs is an odd thing. For example many breeders will get upset if someone asks how much a pup is when they are first contacted by a potential puppy owner. Yet us puppy buyers do have to know how much.

How many of us would buy a car or a TV without knowing how much it is. Yet I find myself saying yes I want this puppy and then at some point in the future asking how much. Total and utter madness! I can remember when I said that I wanted Tally deerhound and then wondering my god how much is he going to cost. (w00t) (Luckily he was a lot cheaper than I dreaded that he'd be :thumbsup: <phew>).

The mention of money in connection with a dog makes people pass a judgement on that persons character. But should it. The buying of a hopefully soon to be much loved pet is partly a business transaction. If it wasn't then money wouldn't change hands. Puppy buyers are paying for a service that the breeder provides.

Thanking the whippet god up there that it isn't me having to rehome one of my dogs.

 

[*Lesley*]

Thanking the whippet god up there that it isn't me having to rehome one of my dogs.

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My thoughts exactly Beejay, we are very lucky are'nt we thats why I feel so sad for people who are not so fortunate

 

[~elizabeth~]

Thanking the whippet god up there that it isn't me having to rehome one of my dogs.

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My thoughts exactly Beejay, we are very lucky are'nt we thats why I feel so sad for people who are not so fortunate

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Agree with you both Beejay/Lesley. Know an elderly couple with a manic boxer they can't cope with (dumped on them by their grandson) and really ought to rehome, but he paid £900 for it and they want the money back. You'd think they'd put the dog's welfare, as well as their own, first (it's knocked one of them over already and caused an injury) but a lot of people seem to think this way, especially with 'status' breeds' and I suppose you have to take account of it.

There are different cultures re. money in this country too - some people are up-front about it, other don't like discussing it, it can be quite awkward when you run your own business, and even worse with emotive issues like the worth of a new puppy.

Elizabeth

 

[dessie]

Sorry to hear that you are in this situation.
I had two bitches who would periodically try to kill each other.  It's not nice.  Mine didn't fight at the frequency that yours have.  It's very stressful for dogs and owners.

My thoughts re Bryon are these.  Money and dogs is an odd thing.  For example many breeders will get upset if someone asks how much a pup is when they are first contacted by a potential puppy owner.  Yet us puppy buyers do have to know how much.   

How many of us would buy a car or a TV without knowing how much it is.  Yet I find myself saying yes I want this puppy and then at some point in the future asking how much.  Total and utter madness!  I can remember when I said that I wanted Tally deerhound and then wondering my god how much is he going to cost.  (w00t) (Luckily he was a lot cheaper than I dreaded that he'd be :thumbsup: <phew>). 

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Agree, it is awful when you have two dogs that want to kill one another. I had this situation between Lester and Arkle, many years ago now and one of them had to go, for his own safety.

However, I cannot agree with Beejay's point of view on money and dogs. Hers is the perspective from the buyer's side. There is a good old addage that says "If you have to ask the price you can't afford it!" and, as a breeder, I would tend to go along with that.

I have no issues with people ringing just for advice on the breed or coming on a visit to experience 'life with Whippets' and general price being discussed then but I am put off a prospective purchaser straight away (can't say that I get upset) if the first thing anyone asks is the price. If they have done their research on the breed they should know roughly what they will be expecting to pay and I would assume that if they come to me that they want one of MY puppies, not just the first puppy they come across.

Whenever I have 'bought in' I have gone to that breeder because I want one of their stock and I will pay the price they ask but I don't start talking about that until I have selected the puppy I want!!

IMO buying livestock is vastly different from buying TVs or cars and you should not be looking for the best possible 'deal' pricewise.

 

[dawn]

I was going to stay out of this particular post but after some of the comments decided not too.

I too had to rehome a dog a few years ago (due to the breakdown of my first marraige) I loved him to bits but made the decision he could not live with five bitches and be totally happy. Tyson was 3yrs old and had a very promising show career ahead of him, having done his fair share of winning. A good loving home was THE most important thing to me not money. At the time I was not internet friendly so had to advertise him in the local paper. I did not want him to go just anywhere and felt that if he was free to a good home, I would have had every Tom Dick and Harry wanting him and anything could have happened to him. I had decided to ask £50. I did not put a price in the ad and had loads of calls which I dismissed most of, epecially when they asked how much before anything else. If a persons mind is made up to have a whippet the price should not matter.

I had almost given up on the ad when I had a call from a lovely couple who asked if we would bring him round to meet them, which we did and he settled straight away, making himself at home. I knew they were right for him! I did not tell the couple he was a show dog he was to be just a spoiled pet. I sobbed buckets when I left him but know it was the right decision, for him and he has a wonderful life now.

Money should not be important, a good loving home should be.

If as breeders we gave our pups away Lesley who knows where they would end up. Some people would take anything for free and sell it on, choose how nice they sounded. God knows where they would end up, at least if we charge for them people who are out to make a quick buck would think twice.

We always vet our potential new owners thoroughly and if we had any doubts about them they would not be having one of our pups. If for any reason they do need to rehome a dog we have bred, it is written into our puppy contracts that it comes back to us. Responsible breeders take responsibilty for the dogs they have bred for the duration of the dogs life.

My advice to you would be let Byron go back to the breeders so the can re home him.

 

[dolly]

We have only had to take one dog back, he went to his new home, and i asked for the new owners to make a donation to whippet rescue. Although they werent involved i thought it would be a nice gesture.

 

[~Helen~]

If as breeders we gave our pups away Lesley who knows where they would end up.

I'm pretty sure Lesley isn't advocating that breeders give their puppies away

 

[~elizabeth~]

If as breeders we gave our pups away Lesley who knows where they would end up. 

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The trouble is, I've seen several people pay around £1000 for boxers, rottweilers etc and they end up in a real state because they can't cope with the dog. Ok, being in Wales they probably come from puppy farmers who won't take them back or approve the home in advance anyway, but the fact remains that some people won't rehome the dog because they want their money back; they will have told all their friends that it cost a grand and will also be afraid of losing face. The only option that remains is to hang onto the dog until it drives them mad and they have to have it put down.

Charging someone that amount of money doesn't guarantee the the dog a good home, as these instances prove. Many people won't admit to themselves they have a problem either; going back to the breeder means the embarrassment of admitting this, so they probably wouldn't tell you if there was a problem anyway.

In an ideal world it wouldn't happen, but sadly it's not an ideal world...

 

[aslan]

Yes - ditto in support of Rosalind and what Lesley and others have said.

Rosalind paid out 250 pounds for a dog, thinking that she would be able to have that dog. Now, sadly, she has decided, and not just on a whim mind you, that she can't have it. I don't think it is wrong of her to ask money for him. There are those of us who can't afford to lose that type of money. You will notice that Clara was a give-away (as far as I can tell no money was asked for the older dog). It is only for the young fella for which Rosalind is asking money - which she only recently outlaid.

If you bought a new car seven weeks ago and then found that you couldn't have it - you would resell it wouldn't you? Not give it away - unless you were well off and wouldn't miss the money. Some of you may think that comparing a puppy to a car is heartless or not relevant - but as Beejay said buying a puppy is a business transaction. The breeder puts a price on the pup to recoup the money they spent in raising the pup. There is no reason that a re-homer shouldn't put a price on the pup to recoup the money they've only recently outlayed.

I don't see a reason for all the hoo-ha over this.

Rosalind - I have suffered a number of dog fights in my time and I know it is one of the most upsetting things to ever happen with one's dogs. And unless you have the facilities it is very stressful trying to juggle dogs. I understand where you're coming from and I'm sorry that it has turned out this way for you.

 

[dawn]

If as breeders we gave our pups away Lesley who knows where they would end up.

I'm pretty sure Lesley isn't advocating that breeders give their puppies away

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I know that Helen I was just explaining the reason why breeders will not give away puppies.

 

[~elizabeth~]

Is this really just a classic debate over the English being too embarrassed to talk about money when it comes down to it?

People who ask the price first may just want to get the embarrassing bit out of the way - some people are just like that and there are probably cultural differences between different areas of the country anyway; it's the done thing in some situations to get money talk out of the way first, it doesn't necessary mean anything sinister. Anyone who's had a dog before knows that most of the cost is in feeding, vet's bills etc, but we all probably have a special contingency fund for our animals, and like to know how big a dent the purchase is going to make in this, esp. if we have other dogs/cats.

 

[dawn]

Is this really just a classic debate over the English being too embarrassed to talk about money when it comes down to it?
People who ask the price first may just want to get the embarrassing bit out of the way - some people are just like that and there are probably cultural differences between different areas of the country anyway; it's the done thing in some situations to get money talk out of the way first, it doesn't necessary mean anything sinister. Anyone who's had a dog before knows that most of the cost is in feeding, vet's bills etc, but we all probably have a special contingency fund for our animals, and like to know how big a dent the purchase is going to make in this, esp. if we have other dogs/cats.

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Being English has nothing to do with it.

Anyone who really wants a whippet should have done the research before enquiring about one so SHOULD know how much they are likely to cost. If a whippet is really the dog for them then the price should not make a difference.

If money is an issue then they should not be contemplating having a dog anyway, we all know the cost of unexpected vets bills.

 

[aslan]

If a persons mind is made up to have a whippet the price should not matter.Price only doesn't matter when you have lots of money.  It doesn't matter how much you want a whippet - you have to buy within your budget.  I would like an English Champion but know I could never afford it.  People may have decided they want a whippet but can only afford to spend 250 not 1000.

Money should not be important, a good loving home should be.

If, as breeders, we gave our pups away, who knows where they would end up.  Some people would take anything for free and sell it on, , at least if we charge for them people who are out to make a quick buck would think twice.

Don't these two statements contradict one another?  If a loving home was the ONLY important thing and money didn't matter, then breeders would give their pups away.  But we don't just breed and give all the pups away because (a) we do need to recoup some of our expenses and (b) many of us believe what you've said in the second statement - plus many of us think that if people are prepared to pay for a puppy they will value it more, and take better care of it than someone who is looking to get one for nothing.

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[dessie]

Is this really just a classic debate over the English being too embarrassed to talk about money when it comes down to it?
People who ask the price first may just want to get the embarrassing bit out of the way - some people are just like that and there are probably cultural differences between different areas of the country anyway; it's the done thing in some situations to get money talk out of the way first, it doesn't necessary mean anything sinister. Anyone who's had a dog before knows that most of the cost is in feeding, vet's bills etc, but we all probably have a special contingency fund for our animals, and like to know how big a dent the purchase is going to make in this, esp. if we have other dogs/cats.

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Being English has nothing to do with it.

Anyone who really wants a whippet should have done the research before enquiring about one so SHOULD know how much they are likely to cost. If a whippet is really the dog for them then the price should not make a difference.

If money is an issue then they should not be contemplating having a dog anyway, we all know the cost of unexpected vets bills.

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Agree with you as well Dawn (w00t) (w00t) . I think this is virtually what I said earlier

 

[Veredon]

So you buy a new car, get it home, and it doesn't fit in the Garage.What do you do??? Give it Away?? Dont think so.

Rosalind could have been more tactfull in her post but surely a suitable home can be found where She gets some of the Money she's outlayed back.

 

[dawn]

many of us believe what you've said in the second statement - plus many of us think that if people are prepared to pay for a puppy they will value it more, and take better care of it than someone who is looking to get one for nothing.

That is exactly the point I was trying to make Lana. Sorry if it didn't read like that.

 

[BeeJay]

Sorry to hear that you are in this situation.
I had two bitches who would periodically try to kill each other.  It's not nice.   Mine didn't fight at the frequency that yours have.  It's very stressful for dogs and owners.

My thoughts re Bryon are these.  Money and dogs is an odd thing.  For example many breeders will get upset if someone asks how much a pup is when they are first contacted by a potential puppy owner.  Yet us puppy buyers do have to know how much.    

How many of us would buy a car or a TV without knowing how much it is.  Yet I find myself saying yes I want this puppy and then at some point in the future asking how much.  Total and utter madness!  I can remember when I said that I wanted Tally deerhound and then wondering my god how much is he going to cost.  (w00t) (Luckily he was a lot cheaper than I dreaded that he'd be :thumbsup: <phew>). 

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Agree, it is awful when you have two dogs that want to kill one another. I had this situation between Lester and Arkle, many years ago now and one of them had to go, for his own safety.

However, I cannot agree with Beejay's point of view on money and dogs. Hers is the perspective from the buyer's side. There is a good old addage that says "If you have to ask the price you can't afford it!" and, as a breeder, I would tend to go along with that.

I have no issues with people ringing just for advice on the breed or coming on a visit to experience 'life with Whippets' and general price being discussed then but I am put off a prospective purchaser straight away (can't say that I get upset) if the first thing anyone asks is the price. If they have done their research on the breed they should know roughly what they will be expecting to pay and I would assume that if they come to me that they want one of MY puppies, not just the first puppy they come across.

Whenever I have 'bought in' I have gone to that breeder because I want one of their stock and I will pay the price they ask but I don't start talking about that until I have selected the puppy I want!!

IMO buying livestock is vastly different from buying TVs or cars and you should not be looking for the best possible 'deal' pricewise.

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You've misconstrued what I've said Dessie. I certainly never said anything about looking for the best possible 'deal' pricewise on a puppy.

However you have beautifully illustrated my point about how easy it can be to put a breeder off selling a pup to a prospective buyer simply because they ask the price at the wrong time. :thumbsup: Yet how are new buyers to know when it's the 'right time' to ask?

A buyer can't know how much a breeder is going to charge until they are told by that breeder for that puppy. For example KC whippets sell from £300 upwards, it's a big range in price.

So at some point a buyer is going to have to ask. The timing of the asking is fairly crucial if the breeder is going to use the asking as part of deciding whether the person is right to have one of their pups.

If on the other hand breeders were to volunteer the price on first contact then buyers would know if they could afford the pup wouldn't they so that they wouldn't need to ask and thus run the risk of offending.

I only got into this because it was the mention of a selling fee which upset people in this thread. I was merely trying to point out that whenever a selling fee gets mentioned together with a puppy or dog then that alone upsets people. Yet logically there is no reason why this should be.

 

[aslan]

many of us believe what you've said in the second statement - plus many of us think that if people are prepared to pay for a puppy they will value it more, and take better care of it than someone who is looking to get one for nothing.

That is exactly the point I was trying to make Lana. Sorry if it didn't read like that.

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So then, why is Rosalind wrong in asking money for the little fella? She's only doing exactly what we do as breeders.