Idea's What Could Be Done

[bertblackmore]

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I was of the opinion that most scratch racers aren't overly concerned about the size, height, weight of the scratch dogs. The ill feeling that has recently been brooding in k9 is due to accusations on a public forum of individuals breeding full greyhounds and racing them as either non peds or lurchers. I totally believe that anyone found doing this ought to be disciplined within their sport. Within the non ped scene there are clubs/regions/meetings/agms etc were this ought to be addressed and maybe rules or regulations put in place....that's up to the members to resolve within the proper protocol. Most non peders seem to be of the opinion that they don't want to go down this route due to the costs incurred etc etc. Lets all hope it can be done in an orderly,decent and proper fashion.As for lurchers, there is no governing body with the same organisation/professionalism as you non peders have. It comes down to trust and ethics. Accusations will arise from time to time, i think, born out of suspicion and maybe jealousy. In any of the sports if people have knowingly raced greyhounds as non peds or lurchers they ought to be ashamed of themselves.....as you've won absolutely nothing.

Let's close rank and fight nail and tooth for our hobbies and pastime and not tear it and each other apart.

Darren

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there have been sucspisions over the years but no proof people will often make these accusations wether they are born out of jealousy or real concern is anyones guess as they are never backed up

I believe the NNWRF will act on it if anyone raises the issue with us and can verify what they are saying as well as back it up other than that our hands are pretty much tied at the moment with regard to members registering their pups breeding but the whole situation is being monitered and is on the agenda for our next committee meeting in October, so heres the chance for those who have something to say put it in writing to the NNWRF secretary or myself including your name and address and we will look into it

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If anyone can be relied upon to sort this out you can Linda

BB

 

[tinarpoole]

HAVE FOLLOWED THIS TOPIC AND HERES MY OPINION.SCRATCH RACING IS THE FASTEST GROWING CLASS IN RACING AS THE TURNOUT IN THE RECENT BWRA SHOWED.WE MUST CATER FOR SCRATCH DOGS BUT AFTER ALL IT IS WHIPPET RACING AND WE STARTED IN THE 60S WITH A 28 LBS LIMIT.THERE MUST BE A LIMIT ON WEIGHT WHETHER IT BE 40 48 OR EVEN 50.TO BE HONEST ANY DOGS ABOVE THAT ARE NOT REALLY WHIPPETS.IF WE DONT PUT SOME SORT OF LIMIT IN PLACE THE BREED WILL GET BIGGER AND WE MUST NOT LET THE CRITERIA OF BEING ABLE TO FIT IN THE TRAPS GOVERN WHETHER THE DOGS CAN RUN OR NOT.I HAVE NO AXE TO GRIND AS BILL WITH BAGHEERA AND DAVE WITH BIGLANDS ARE MY PALS.IVE ALSO HAD 2 BITCHES FROM GARY FARMER WHO I HOLD IN HIGH REGARD.THE BWRA AND NWRF AS GOVERNING BODIES MUST BRING IN A LIMIT UNPOPULAR WITH SOME BUT AGREED BY THE MAJORITY.ITS A JOB THEY MUST DO/

 

[Paws123]

(QUOTE)The people who,s been accused for misleading us with breeding know exactly what they were doing with regards to racing greyhounds and breeding them as none ped racers .. i also only know of a handful of these types of dogs ... so i would say if there dogs for what ever reason can not race with any none ped organization ..then its soloy upto them breeders to re home them...i am positive the people in question have re homed greyhounds before

I do understand that some of these dogs weigh less than some 1st breed greyhound x whippet and these people will also have to loss out on racing , but don't they any way , cause i hear the majority of them saying they don't race straight just bends because the whippet traps are to small on the straights for there dogs ... i know there is a small hand full that only race the bend season for what ever there reasons ...but to me buying , breeding , schooling and racing a none ped whippet would mean , been able to race both bends and straights all year round if i wanted to ...if i only wanted to bend race i would buy a greyhound and race it at greyhound meetings ....but you always get some people that will take it that little bit further and try to con others

I am not aiming this post at anyone one person ... but to me whippets are whippet and over the years as the greyhound was introduced to the none ped breeding allowance have been made ...even up to last year the extra class 48lb was introduced for safety reasons , but where do we stop , at what point to we change the name of None ped racing to anything goes

Once we allow the doors to been opened a little bit for the small majority that has lied about there breeding for what ever reason ... there will be no stopping it and our whole heritage of none ped database is gone

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Dee, you're talking as if you know there are people passing off greyhounds as non peds and with respect if you know that much then you must know which dogs you're talking about, so why have the governing bodies not been more pro active about it? Not getting at you Dee but we must be talking about something significant for you to do such a radical 180 in your views, you and Gary have always said you didnt want to put any limits on the dogs in the interest of welfare and progression. If you have changed your views so radically especially when you have just arranged to give a home to a "biggun" (good luck with him by the way)

then there must really be something to worry about.

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marielou WE HAVE A COUPLE OF OUR MEMBERS ON HERE ACCUSING EACH OTHER ON A PUBLIC FORUM OF LYING ABOUT THERE DOGS BREEDING FOR ALL TO READ...whoops sorry hit the caps key ...not shouting

With respect i had Gary on the phone to me on Sunday as we were on our way home from blidworth very up-set , as he was told a certain person was feeding people wrong information about dogs he has breed and dogs he has in his kennels

Then we have Geoff and hazel who through all the crap posted on here the past few days are very up-set and sad..

I then have had a email accusing these 2 plus another person on there dogs breeding and racing of greyhounds ...

Then the whole issue of a Irish dog a month or so ago , and the owner feeling as if he had to justify himself and his dog

This is why my views on the whole issue has changed over night.

As has been said by Linda if anyone raises the issue with us and can verify what they are saying as well as back it up ... we hope as a committee we can try to resolve the situation

As for morris dog i think i have talked him around into keeping his dog and trying to enjoy the bend season he to has been rather up set by the whole issue ...as i have explained to him he is to quick to think people are talking about his dog , but he has took alot of stick over the past year or so

 

[got-the-cent]

:thumbsup:

HAVE FOLLOWED THIS TOPIC AND HERES MY OPINION.SCRATCH RACING IS THE FASTEST GROWING CLASS IN RACING AS THE TURNOUT IN THE RECENT BWRA SHOWED.WE MUST CATER FOR SCRATCH DOGS BUT AFTER ALL IT IS WHIPPET RACING AND WE STARTED IN THE 60S WITH A 28 LBS LIMIT.THERE MUST BE A LIMIT ON WEIGHT WHETHER IT BE 40 48 OR EVEN 50.TO BE HONEST ANY DOGS ABOVE THAT ARE NOT REALLY WHIPPETS.IF WE DONT PUT SOME SORT OF LIMIT IN PLACE THE BREED WILL GET BIGGER  AND WE MUST NOT LET THE CRITERIA OF BEING ABLE TO FIT IN THE TRAPS GOVERN WHETHER THE DOGS CAN RUN OR NOT.I HAVE NO AXE TO GRIND AS BILL WITH BAGHEERA  AND DAVE WITH BIGLANDS ARE MY PALS.IVE ALSO HAD 2 BITCHES FROM GARY FARMER WHO I HOLD IN HIGH REGARD.THE BWRA AND NWRF AS GOVERNING BODIES MUST BRING IN A LIMIT UNPOPULAR WITH SOME BUT AGREED BY THE MAJORITY.ITS A JOB THEY MUST DO/

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:thumbsup:

 

[comeonsteveuk]

:thumbsup:

HAVE FOLLOWED THIS TOPIC AND HERES MY OPINION.SCRATCH RACING IS THE FASTEST GROWING CLASS IN RACING AS THE TURNOUT IN THE RECENT BWRA SHOWED.WE MUST CATER FOR SCRATCH DOGS BUT AFTER ALL IT IS WHIPPET RACING AND WE STARTED IN THE 60S WITH A 28 LBS LIMIT.THERE MUST BE A LIMIT ON WEIGHT WHETHER IT BE 40 48 OR EVEN 50.TO BE HONEST ANY DOGS ABOVE THAT ARE NOT REALLY WHIPPETS.IF WE DONT PUT SOME SORT OF LIMIT IN PLACE THE BREED WILL GET BIGGER  AND WE MUST NOT LET THE CRITERIA OF BEING ABLE TO FIT IN THE TRAPS GOVERN WHETHER THE DOGS CAN RUN OR NOT.I HAVE NO AXE TO GRIND AS BILL WITH BAGHEERA  AND DAVE WITH BIGLANDS ARE MY PALS.IVE ALSO HAD 2 BITCHES FROM GARY FARMER WHO I HOLD IN HIGH REGARD.THE BWRA AND NWRF AS GOVERNING BODIES MUST BRING IN A LIMIT UNPOPULAR WITH SOME BUT AGREED BY THE MAJORITY.ITS A JOB THEY MUST DO/

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:thumbsup:

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spot on :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[jade scott]

I think MarieLou's idea is best, if you restrict the amount of greyhound a dog can have in its breding, this in turn should reduce the size of the dogs, but allow scratch racers the opportunity to still have larger sized dogs, just not so big, this should also allow for anomolies in our breeding, sorry to use him as an example but musclebound was not planned to be 58lb, and his litter sister is only 32lb! If we put a weight restriction on racing then Musclebound would of not been able to race!

In restrcting the breeding ppl wanting larger sized dogs may have to look into the option of using the heavyweight handicap dogs, potentially helping to widen our gene pool.

 

[got-the-cent]

well you have in non ped whippets up to 36ld up to 40ld why not up to 48ld and that will make people think when they breeding and if there is a over 48ld comes out somewhere along the line well its like any breeding whether its none ped whippets, peds of any breed its a chance you take omo

 

[mutley]

size and weight well if it fits in a trap let it run as long as its non ped

 

[wild whippies]

grahams breeding of magical dreams who does have whippet blood in his makeover to a greyhound

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Sorry Gary but I have to correct you here, there is no certainty that the offspring of Magical Dreams to a GHD would produce offspring that have any whippet DNA. The same could be said of Magical Dreams who could of acquired all his DNA from the GHD lineage and none from Tyrone. Not all DNA from a sire or dam is used within the creation of a puppy otherwise all the litter would be exactly the same from any lining. The reasons there are so many differences between brothers and sisters is because different parts of DNA from Sire and Dam are being used. To add further complexity a dog can appear to physically look like a greyhound yet contain a substantial amount of whippet DNA that is not being expressed in it's appearance. As such Magical Dreams offspring could be whippet x greyhounds but they could also be full greyhounds too. To date, we do not have the technology to ascertain exactly what DNA is within a non-ped whippet and therefore the floodgates are open for anything that goes.

I'm sorry Graham to use your dog as an example but I did have to correct Gary's statement here as there is no certainty that the offspring do actually contain any whippet blood. I also cannot disprove that they don't contain any whippet blood either and neither can any of the racing organisations. :thumbsup:

Another example (and I hope Tommy doesn't mind is Maiseemu) a fine whippet by anyones standards. However, Maisey is guaranteed to be 50% whippet and 50% greyhound. I can guarantee this because her Dam is a pure bred greyhound and her Sire is a non-ped. In her creation, half of her DNA came from Florence and half came from Wor John. The DNA of Florence still exists in Maisee but it isn't being expressed (i.e. you can't see it) Rest assured it is there and if Tommy chose to line her to a dog similarly bred (i.e. half greyhound) the offspring produced could also potentially be full greyhound in their breeding. This is why you end up with these incidental scratch dogs being produced in handicapped dogs breeding.

Don't get me wrong, these situations are unlikely to occur but they are possibilities and the more biased you breed your dogs towards the greyhound the more likely that this is going to happen.

This is why I do not condone any form of restrictions as they will not work for all. Some dogs that have ran last year could be exempt from running in the future, what would become of the historics behind the titles some of these dogs have won?

The No Limit class is bigger now than it's ever been, are we tell all these fellow whippet racers to take their dogs off lurcher racing where they'll be subject to injuries from running in dire conditions? Are we to tell them to ''get shut''?

I'm sorry but I don't want any part in such exclusions to fellow whippet racers.

 

[mutley]

i know what you are saying but magical dreams is still a non ped scratch dog

 

[gary farmer]

grahams breeding of magical dreams who does have whippet blood in his makeover to a greyhound

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Sorry Gary but I have to correct you here, there is no certainty that the offspring of Magical Dreams to a GHD would produce offspring that have any whippet DNA. The same could be said of Magical Dreams who could of acquired all his DNA from the GHD lineage and none from Tyrone. Not all DNA from a sire or dam is used within the creation of a puppy otherwise all the litter would be exactly the same from any lining. The reasons there are so many differences between brothers and sisters is because different parts of DNA from Sire and Dam are being used. To add further complexity a dog can appear to physically look like a greyhound yet contain a substantial amount of whippet DNA that is not being expressed in it's appearance. As such Magical Dreams offspring could be whippet x greyhounds but they could also be full greyhounds too. To date, we do not have the technology to ascertain exactly what DNA is within a non-ped whippet and therefore the floodgates are open for anything that goes.

I'm sorry Graham to use your dog as an example but I did have to correct Gary's statement here as there is no certainty that the offspring do actually contain any whippet blood. I also cannot disprove that they don't contain any whippet blood either and neither can any of the racing organisations. :thumbsup:

Another example (and I hope Tommy doesn't mind is Maiseemu) a fine whippet by anyones standards. However, Maisey is guaranteed to be 50% whippet and 50% greyhound. I can guarantee this because her Dam is a pure bred greyhound and her Sire is a non-ped. In her creation, half of her DNA came from Florence and half came from Wor John. The DNA of Florence still exists in Maisee but it isn't being expressed (i.e. you can't see it) Rest assured it is there and if Tommy chose to line her to a dog similarly bred (i.e. half greyhound) the offspring produced could also potentially be full greyhound in their breeding. This is why you end up with these incidental scratch dogs being produced in handicapped dogs breeding.

Don't get me wrong, these situations are unlikely to occur but they are possibilities and the more biased you breed your dogs towards the greyhound the more likely that this is going to happen.

This is why I do not condone any form of restrictions as they will not work for all. Some dogs that have ran last year could be exempt from running in the future, what would become of the historics behind the titles some of these dogs have won?

The No Limit class is bigger now than it's ever been, are we tell all these fellow whippet racers to take their dogs off lurcher racing where they'll be subject to injuries from running in dire conditions? Are we to tell them to ''get shut''?

I'm sorry but I don't want any part in such exclusions to fellow whippet racers.

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So well put wish i could wright like that :thumbsup:

GARY

 

[wild whippies]

i know what you are saying but magical dreams is still a non ped scratch dog

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and on that I agree 100%

I have to say what gets my goat about recent events is the dog that's breeding was questioned is a 40lber. I for one believe it is a non-ped scratch dog.

What surprises me further is to see people supporting exclusions that would more than likely see the end of their friends coming whippet racing. Whilst none of these people are my close friends, I do have a fondness for them and have felt sad over recent events where they've questioned each others integrity.

Scratch racers should take note, you need to stand together because if you don't some or possibly all of you may end up with dogs that you can no longer run. It is only if you stand united that your voices will be loud enough to deafen the organisations over ideas of exclusions. Get your act together lads, what is done is done but for god's sake don't let your arguments culminate in the end of big dogs racing.

 

[got-the-cent]

well you have in non ped whippets up to 36ld up to 40ld why not up to 48ld and  that will make people think when they breeding and if there is a over 48ld comes out somewhere along the line well its like any breeding whether its none ped  whippets, peds of any breed its a chance you take omo

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good idear,bad idear any answers ????????

 

[Vicky]

Edited the thread as best i can, now back on topic.

 

[Vicky]

AND BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POST

first of all this is not a dig at the scratch racing )
after all the bad feeling and mudslinging on here lately,and the size and way they are being bred.

What could be introduced to try and stop the way they are being bred i.e. half whippet greyhound to full greyhound.

one way could be to have a signed paper of the registered stud dog owner to say his/her dog as mated the bitch( but that would be open to abuse as well)

or put a weight restriction on like i mentioned in an earlier post  this would make breeders think about breeding as mentioned above.

i know there are scratch dogs bred in the (what i think is the correct way) that have gone over say 55lb but at least it's been done right.

as i said iam not getting at scratch dogs but it's not like it used to be i.e. under 20lb whippet dog to a small sprint greyhound.

constructive ideas only please :thumbsup:

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[got-the-cent]

QUESTION: What is classed as a non ped whippet is it 3/4 whippetgreyhound or is it 3/4 greyhound whippet.what i mean by this is if the non ped as more whippet than greyhound in it does that makes it non ped.Or other way round if it as more greyhound in it than whippet is it a non ped greyhound.just a question not looking for arguement :thumbsup:

 

[gary farmer]

QUESTION: What is classed as a non ped whippet is it  3/4 whippetgreyhound or is it 3/4 greyhound whippet.what i mean by this is if the non ped as more whippet than greyhound in it does  that  makes it non ped.Or other way round if it as  more greyhound in it than whippet is it a non ped greyhound.just a question not looking for arguement  :thumbsup:

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THE ANSWER TO THAT I THINK IT MAKES IT A SRATCH DOG WHICH CAN BE ANY OF THE ABOVE

AS FOR THE BREED GETTING BIGGER IT CANT SOME ARE ALLREADY THE SIZE OF GREYHOUNDS REGARDLESS OF THERE BREEDING AND HAVE BEEN FOR AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER.

:cheers:

GARY

 

[DavidH]

best way as nnwrf has done introduce up to 48 class

then no limit then get them in :thumbsup:

you will never police any other system in whippet cross what ever.

has anybody tryed a saluki /whippet.could it run in the no limit it is a sight hound???

 

[Fleesh]

QUESTION: What is classed as a non ped whippet is it  3/4 whippetgreyhound or is it 3/4 greyhound whippet.what i mean by this is if the non ped as more whippet than greyhound in it does   that  makes it non ped.Or other way round if it as  more greyhound in it than whippet is it a non ped greyhound.just a question not looking for arguement  :thumbsup:

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As Jac has been trying to explain, the use of the term's 3/4 whip x grey or 3/4 grey x whip are the very rudimentary terms involved in describing the outcome of a mating as genetically they offspring may not be either of the above. Take for example my bitch Connor's Lass, she raced between 22-24lb mostly, now in rudimentary terms she is a non-ped whippet (not a lot of greyhound blood in her breeding) however her litter brothers were 34lb and the unraced one even larger (so scratch dogs in the eyes of the BWRA/IRG at the very least). Now that would possibly mean that whatever greyhound DNA was floating about in the parents MAY have been expressed in Kerri's brothers but not in her.

Therefore the reason that Jac (and many others) have put forward the argument that it is unfair to impose a % breeding cap or a weight cap. There are other litters racing just like Kerri's, though a little larger in size in some cases. Making half the litter large scratch dogs and half the litter handicap dogs.

Example:

Wonderwall x Aimee (rudimentary 5/8ghd pups)

Miss Mellish 26lb

Moany Moany 28lb

Born Free 30lb

Boy Wonder 32lb

Pem's Lad 39lb(ish)

Naz's Warror 44lb(ish)

Another Wonder 48lb(ish)

Incognito 50lber I think :blink:

The larger pups in the litter are probably going to possess a greater quantity of ghd DNA than the smaller ones.

I have put Moany Moany to a 28lb "1/4ghd dog" and she is as you see above a 28lb "5/8ghd bitch". Now that would make her pups in rudimentary terms "7/16" ghd so I drop in size. However from the sire a pup could take the 1/2 ghd x whip breeding and from the dam could take 100% ghd DNA. Meaning that they could produce a 3/4 ghd pup or conversely a 1/16 ghd pup. (Though to confuse you more as Moany is not a 1st cross whip/ghd the chances of there being straight ghd DNA in her is not that realistic).

Hope this explains it a bit more :- "

:sweating:

 

[got-the-cent]

QUESTION: What is classed as a non ped whippet is it  3/4 whippetgreyhound or is it 3/4 greyhound whippet.what i mean by this is if the non ped as more whippet than greyhound in it does   that  makes it non ped.Or other way round if it as  more greyhound in it than whippet is it a non ped greyhound.just a question not looking for arguement  :thumbsup:

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think you will find i asked what is a non ped whippet or non ped greyhound ?