Idea's What Could Be Done

[sadieandco]

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(w00t) hi mum see your fingers on fire again lol (w00t)

 

[Trojan]

pmsl laffing @ church mice whippets  :lol:   :lol:   :lol:
all im saying is its always the scratch dog for some reason where these huge debates start.  :thumbsup:

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and the 15/16lbers that get :wub: your not running that tiny little thing are you, is it a whippet or an italian greyhound hahaha new debate :thumbsup: (JOKE JOKE!!!)

Sadie don't be bloody cheeky about fingers on fire :lol: its a good job i didn't reply to a certain post yesterday as my brain was on fire too and may have said something a little heated :- "

 

[rob67]

im very curious to know how many whippets or so called whippets are 60+? the way this topic is u wud think there were dozens. i dont c wots wrong with the scratch myself and i dont know whose accusing who of racing greyhounds but all i can say is they must b small greyhounds. the topic is wot can be done with scratch racing? well personally i think its fine the way it is other than all the solo classes in the pup/yearling and vet classes one way of sorting this out is put them all in together or another way is introduce 2 new scr classes 4 those but do away with 40/48 and no limit and maybe have say 45lb and 55lb. i must admit ive always thought the scr classes a bit odd when u think about it bwra 36lb as the limit is 32lb so thats a 4lb weight class then 40lb also a 4lb weight class then no limit which cud a 20lb weight class. so really the 48lb class was a good idea but may not work for the pup/vets/yearling sc. all just my own opinion.

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Spot on Carole ... think the dogs at are accused are small ..what i would call inferior greyhounds ...but if we allow these dogs to run its opening the door for others and the much bigger greyhound ...if you get my drift

If we the nnwrf have the entries at our events for all 3 scr classes in vet pups yearling then we will run it that way ...great :thumbsup:

but if the classes are solos in all 3 i don't see a problem putting the dogs together and saving on cost for trophys ...thats all i was say

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I dont think the problem exists so much in straight rqacing because the traps are too small to encourage the bigger dogs to run, but on the bends the weight difference, i believe is far greater. Therefore I can see why, if you dont run your dog on the bends, it might seem an acceptable situation. Who is to say that in the future, if the breeding continues the way it is, the size of traps on the straights wont be increased and then a similar problem will emerge.

Dont think you can only see this from your own racing position, it has to be global.

chris.

chris

 

[rob67]

As I said before it's not always up to the h/w or scratch dog owners to get their dogs at stud to h/w bitches. Sometimes the h/w bitch owners want to put their bitch to a small stud dog to try and get smaller handicap dogs rather than put their faith in a scratch or h/w dog and possibly end up with no scratch dogs or l/w's for the straights. In these cases then what should we do ? Prevent the h/w or scratch dog from breeding at all because nobody wants to put their bitch to a "big dog". It would just be another way of losing bloodlines and closing the gene pool. If you have a big dog with a talent (the likes of as Rob mentioned - Bigland Boy) then we cannot fairly penalise the dog and risk losing it's bloodline just becasue it's big.
Vicious cirle admittedly but for these reasons I cannot see that it is fair to cap the weights or restrict the breeding. I applaud the likes of Dee who see no problem in putting their h/w bitch to a h/w dog, as she mentioned it would be nice to get some scratch dogs from the mating but it's not the end of the world if she doesn't. I fully intend to put Moany Moany to a heavier dog in the future and see no reason why other bitch owners would not do the same. Otherwise we are trapping other members of our own sport into putting their h/w dog soley to greyhounds in an attemt to preserve their bloodline.

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But I wonder if you did, say for example, bred bigland boy to a non-ped whippet bitch registered to race, is that infinitely not more acceptable to those who scratch race to accept the possibilty that this breeding might have bigger dogs as an exception rather than the rule rather than if you were to breed it with a full greyhound? I dont think the answer is that difficult, depends on how many people are insistent on breeding back to a greyhound consistently?

chris

 

[rob67]

im very curious to know how many whippets or so called whippets are 60+? the way this topic is u wud think there were dozens. i dont c wots wrong with the scratch myself and i dont know whose accusing who of racing greyhounds but all i can say is they must b small greyhounds. the topic is wot can be done with scratch racing? well personally i think its fine the way it is other than all the solo classes in the pup/yearling and vet classes one way of sorting this out is put them all in together or another way is introduce 2 new scr classes 4 those but do away with 40/48 and no limit and maybe have say 45lb and 55lb. i must admit ive always thought the scr classes a bit odd when u think about it bwra 36lb as the limit is 32lb so thats a 4lb weight class then 40lb also a 4lb weight class then no limit which cud a 20lb weight class. so really the 48lb class was a good idea but may not work for the pup/vets/yearling sc. all just my own opinion.

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Spot on Carole ... think the dogs at are accused are small ..what i would call inferior greyhounds ...but if we allow these dogs to run its opening the door for others and the much bigger greyhound ...if you get my drift

If we the nnwrf have the entries at our events for all 3 scr classes in vet pups yearling then we will run it that way ...great :thumbsup:

but if the classes are solos in all 3 i don't see a problem putting the dogs together and saving on cost for trophys ...thats all i was say

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Would this not be a sensible suggestion for all entry classes and not just scratch? Seems like it might apply in more areas as if i remember rightly Matt has had a good deal of solos as a yearling, and most of the opens other pups and yearlings had them too? Whats the difference?

chris

 

[sherry]

im very curious to know how many whippets or so called whippets are 60+? the way this topic is u wud think there were dozens. i dont c wots wrong with the scratch myself and i dont know whose accusing who of racing greyhounds but all i can say is they must b small greyhounds. the topic is wot can be done with scratch racing? well personally i think its fine the way it is other than all the solo classes in the pup/yearling and vet classes one way of sorting this out is put them all in together or another way is introduce 2 new scr classes 4 those but do away with 40/48 and no limit and maybe have say 45lb and 55lb. i must admit ive always thought the scr classes a bit odd when u think about it bwra 36lb as the limit is 32lb so thats a 4lb weight class then 40lb also a 4lb weight class then no limit which cud a 20lb weight class. so really the 48lb class was a good idea but may not work for the pup/vets/yearling sc. all just my own opinion.

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Spot on Carole ... think the dogs at are accused are small ..what i would call inferior greyhounds ...but if we allow these dogs to run its opening the door for others and the much bigger greyhound ...if you get my drift

If we the nnwrf have the entries at our events for all 3 scr classes in vet pups yearling then we will run it that way ...great :thumbsup:

but if the classes are solos in all 3 i don't see a problem putting the dogs together and saving on cost for trophys ...thats all i was say

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I dont think the problem exists so much in straight rqacing because the traps are too small to encourage the bigger dogs to run, but on the bends the weight difference, i believe is far greater. Therefore I can see why, if you dont run your dog on the bends, it might seem an acceptable situation. Who is to say that in the future, if the breeding continues the way it is, the size of traps on the straights wont be increased and then a similar problem will emerge.

Dont think you can only see this from your own racing position, it has to be global.

chris.

chris

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chris id be extremly surprised if all clubs got bigger traps on the straights they do cost a lot of money so i definitly cudnt c that happening. still nobody has answered my question on how many 60lb + whippets r racing? not being a bend racer i dont know so wud like someone 2 enlighten me is there lots of them? as far as im aware i can only think of one but like i said im not a bend racer so i maybe wrong :blink:

 

[sherry]

im very curious to know how many whippets or so called whippets are 60+? the way this topic is u wud think there were dozens. i dont c wots wrong with the scratch myself and i dont know whose accusing who of racing greyhounds but all i can say is they must b small greyhounds. the topic is wot can be done with scratch racing? well personally i think its fine the way it is other than all the solo classes in the pup/yearling and vet classes one way of sorting this out is put them all in together or another way is introduce 2 new scr classes 4 those but do away with 40/48 and no limit and maybe have say 45lb and 55lb. i must admit ive always thought the scr classes a bit odd when u think about it bwra 36lb as the limit is 32lb so thats a 4lb weight class then 40lb also a 4lb weight class then no limit which cud a 20lb weight class. so really the 48lb class was a good idea but may not work for the pup/vets/yearling sc. all just my own opinion.

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Spot on Carole ... think the dogs at are accused are small ..what i would call inferior greyhounds ...but if we allow these dogs to run its opening the door for others and the much bigger greyhound ...if you get my drift

If we the nnwrf have the entries at our events for all 3 scr classes in vet pups yearling then we will run it that way ...great :thumbsup:

but if the classes are solos in all 3 i don't see a problem putting the dogs together and saving on cost for trophys ...thats all i was say

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Would this not be a sensible suggestion for all entry classes and not just scratch? Seems like it might apply in more areas as if i remember rightly Matt has had a good deal of solos as a yearling, and most of the opens other pups and yearlings had them too? Whats the difference?

chris

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exactly wot i said chris i even did some reasearch and posted it on this topic but as its now 13 pages long god knows where it is lol :lol:

 

[jasper.]

the fed have the best format,...over 48lb is fine for the biguns. if you go too high there wont be enough to make it worth its while..

 

[mutley]

i agree maurice think it works well as it it dont know of any scratch dogs 60 nor over i think the heaviest is around 58

 

[Tony Taylor]

There are lots of reasons for not allowing ghds to run in the No Limit most of which don't hold water. However denise has pointed out a very good reason not to allow ghds to run, that is the racing of ghd comes under DEFRA and government legislation whereas whippet racing doesn't seem to at present.

Excluding ghds for this reason is sensible to protect the organisations from the legal and finacial implications of government legislation.

This unfortunatley means that No Limit racing also comes under scrutiny because I don't see how racing 60lb dogs, especially on ghd tracks ccould be defended as whippet racing if legal action was to be brought by DEFRA against any of the racing bodies. Only a small minority of whippet racers would consider some of the larger dogs in the No Limit as whippets I feel expert opinion would also rule these dogs as being ghds.

In view of the above then perhaps action does need to be taken to prevent what would reasonably be considered as ghd types running at whippet race meetings and as such new rules need to be drafted. However I feel it's important that racers already running are allowed to continue to race currently registed dogs.

As a template for debate I would suggest;

1) current registrants be allowed to run as before

2) Any dog over 56lb registered after 1st Jan 2009 will not be allowed to race.

3) Any dog over 40lb registered after 1st January 2009 with the ghd appearing more than once in a three generation pedigree not be allowed to race. Proof of pedigree to be provided via DNA testing at the owners expense if required

4) No ghds of any weight. Proof of parentage to be provided at the owners expense if required.

5) No parent unknown dogs allowed to run over 40lb

6) Dogs over 56lb to be excluded from the supreme scratch

7) From 2013 reduce the weight limits in points (2) and (6) to 48lb

The above rules would offer a reasonable amount of defence for whippet racing organisations against a charge of ghd racing contravening government legislation

 

[Fleesh]

So as re: breeding you're saying according to your template this could happen:

Example 1

But not this:

Example 2

 

[Tony Taylor]

So as re: breeding you're saying according to your template this could happen:
Example 1

But not this:

Example 2

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I had in mind 3 gereration pedigree back from the offspring. A 4 generation pedigree if your examples are 3 generation so your example 1 would be revised example 1 which couldn't happen either. Or rather it could happen but only those offspring under 40lb would be allowed to run.

 

[rodders]

think your finger slipped on No6 Tony,I know you meant 8 instead of 6

 

[Tony Taylor]

think your finger slipped on No6 Tony,I know you meant 8 instead of 6  

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Karen, rule 1, your dog is a current registerant would apply in your case. 56lb is the limit of most of the electronic scales and 8lb over the 48lb class so while 56lb is somewhat arbitary it does "fit".

 

[rodders]

think your finger slipped on No6 Tony,I know you meant 8 instead of 6  

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Karen, rule 1, your dog is a current registerant would apply in your case. 56lb is the limit of most of the electronic scales and 8lb over the 48lb class so while 56lb is somewhat arbitary it does "fit".

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sorry Tony.First rule of posting 'read what your replying too before you reply' :lol: :thumbsup:

 

[rob67]

There are lots of reasons for not allowing ghds to run in the No Limit most of which don't hold water. However denise has pointed out a very good reason not to allow ghds to run, that is the racing of ghd comes under DEFRA and government legislation whereas whippet racing doesn't seem to at present.
Excluding ghds for this reason is sensible to protect the organisations from the legal and finacial implications of government legislation.

This unfortunatley means that No Limit racing also comes under scrutiny because I don't see how racing 60lb dogs, especially on ghd tracks ccould be defended as whippet racing if legal action was to be brought by DEFRA against any of the racing bodies. Only a small minority of whippet racers would consider some of the larger dogs in the No Limit as whippets I feel expert opinion would also rule these dogs as being ghds.

In view of the above then perhaps action does need to be taken to prevent what would reasonably be considered as ghd types running at whippet race meetings and as such new rules need to be drafted. However I feel it's important that racers already running are allowed to continue to race currently registed dogs.

As a template for debate I would suggest;

1) current registrants be allowed to run as before

2) Any dog over 56lb registered after 1st Jan 2009 will not be allowed to race.

3) Any dog over 40lb registered after 1st January 2009 with the ghd appearing more than once in a three generation pedigree not be allowed to race. Proof of pedigree to be provided via DNA testing at the owners expense if required

4) No ghds of any weight. Proof of parentage to be provided at the owners expense if required.

5) No parent unknown dogs allowed to run over 40lb

6) Dogs over 56lb to be excluded from the supreme scratch

7) From 2013 reduce the weight limits in points (2) and (6) to 48lb

The above rules would offer a reasonable amount of defence for whippet racing organisations against a charge of ghd racing contravening government legislation

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I think there are many good suggestions on this thread, many of which are not included in the above, so perhaps a template could be constructed with all of these in mind, including the thoughts of those who are against weight capping? Perhaps some way forward could be determined with as many views as possible inclded not just those of a few.

And just my thoughts.................it seems sad to me when the question of 'contravening legislation' is mentioned people jump to sort things out, yet when the topic was initially started off by people it was by people who genuinely cared about their dogs and scratch racing because it mattered to them, and they had equally, if not more valid suggestions.

chris

chris

 

[milly]

There are lots of reasons for not allowing ghds to run in the No Limit most of which don't hold water. However denise has pointed out a very good reason not to allow ghds to run, that is the racing of ghd comes under DEFRA and government legislation whereas whippet racing doesn't seem to at present.
Excluding ghds for this reason is sensible to protect the organisations from the legal and finacial implications of government legislation.

This unfortunatley means that No Limit racing also comes under scrutiny because I don't see how racing 60lb dogs, especially on ghd tracks ccould be defended as whippet racing if legal action was to be brought by DEFRA against any of the racing bodies. Only a small minority of whippet racers would consider some of the larger dogs in the No Limit as whippets I feel expert opinion would also rule these dogs as being ghds.

In view of the above then perhaps action does need to be taken to prevent what would reasonably be considered as ghd types running at whippet race meetings and as such new rules need to be drafted. However I feel it's important that racers already running are allowed to continue to race currently registed dogs.

As a template for debate I would suggest;

1) current registrants be allowed to run as before

2) Any dog over 56lb registered after 1st Jan 2009 will not be allowed to race.

3) Any dog over 40lb registered after 1st January 2009 with the ghd appearing more than once in a three generation pedigree not be allowed to race. Proof of pedigree to be provided via DNA testing at the owners expense if required

4) No ghds of any weight. Proof of parentage to be provided at the owners expense if required.

5) No parent unknown dogs allowed to run over 40lb

6) Dogs over 56lb to be excluded from the supreme scratch

7) From 2013 reduce the weight limits in points (2) and (6) to 48lb

The above rules would offer a reasonable amount of defence for whippet racing organisations against a charge of ghd racing contravening government legislation

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​

I think there are many good suggestions on this thread, many of which are not included in the above, so perhaps a template could be constructed with all of these in mind, including the thoughts of those who are against weight capping? Perhaps some way forward could be determined with as many views as possible inclded not just those of a few.

And just my thoughts.................it seems sad to me when the question of 'contravening legislation' is mentioned people jump to sort things out, yet when the topic was initially started off by people it was by people who genuinely cared about their dogs and scratch racing because it mattered to them, and they had equally, if not more valid suggestions.

chris

chris

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:thumbsup: o

 

[Tony Taylor]

And just my thoughts.................it seems sad to me when the question of 'contravening legislation' is mentioned people jump to sort things out, yet when the topic was initially started off by people it was by people who genuinely cared about their dogs and scratch racing because it mattered to them, and they had equally, if not more valid suggestions.
chris

chris

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There is no option but to comply with legislative issues as soon as possible.

You seem to imply to me that only those that share your views genuinely care about there dogs and scratch racing and by implication those that don't agree with those views don't care about their dogs or scratch racing. Any such implication that those who have a different view point don't care about their dogs or scratch racing, while risible, is insulting. I'm sure you didn't mean to insult anyone but perhaps you might like to clarify.

 

[rob67]

And just my thoughts.................it seems sad to me when the question of 'contravening legislation' is mentioned people jump to sort things out, yet when the topic was initially started off by people it was by people who genuinely cared about their dogs and scratch racing because it mattered to them, and they had equally, if not more valid suggestions.

chris

chris

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There is no option but to comply with legislative issues as soon as possible.

You seem to imply to me that only those that share your views genuinely care about there dogs and scratch racing and by implication those that don't agree with those views don't care about their dogs or scratch racing. Any isuch mplication that those who have a different view point don't care about their dogs or scratch racing, while risible, is insulting. I'm sure you didn't mean to insult anyone but perhaps you might like to clarify.

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No intention to insult Tony, or in my eyes any need to to clarify,it was quite plainly said, and as I stated my opinion. Perhaps it was the way you read it? I clearly stated it where it was my own personal views. I think my points were valid otherwise i wouldnt have put them on. As I stated, there have been many thoughtful suggestions on this thread that dont appear in your template, I think it only fair to ask why they had not been included.

If legislation is so important then why, when previous posts have insinuated that there have been suspicions that there have been dogs running in the non-ped that may have been greyhounds, and members have known about it, has it not been dealt with sooner?

As for only thinking my opinion counts, i think you might be having slight transference issues there Tony :thumbsup:

 

[Paws123]

And just my thoughts.................it seems sad to me when the question of 'contravening legislation' is mentioned people jump to sort things out, yet when the topic was initially started off by people it was by people who genuinely cared about their dogs and scratch racing because it mattered to them, and they had equally, if not more valid suggestions.

chris

chris

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There is no option but to comply with legislative issues as soon as possible.

You seem to imply to me that only those that share your views genuinely care about there dogs and scratch racing and by implication those that don't agree with those views don't care about their dogs or scratch racing. Any isuch mplication that those who have a different view point don't care about their dogs or scratch racing, while risible, is insulting. I'm sure you didn't mean to insult anyone but perhaps you might like to clarify.

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No intention to insult Tony, or in my eyes any need to to clarify,it was quite plainly said, and as I stated my opinion. Perhaps it was the way you read it? I clearly stated it where it was my own personal views. I think my points were valid otherwise i wouldnt have put them on. As I stated, there have been many thoughtful suggestions on this thread that dont appear in your template, I think it only fair to ask why they had not been included.

If legislation is so important then why, when previous posts have insinuated that there have been suspicions that there have been dogs running in the non-ped that may have been greyhounds, and members have known about it, has it not been dealt with sooner?

As for only thinking my opinion counts, i think you might be having slight transference issues there Tony :thumbsup:

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These have been rumors for a few month now chris... as i am aware the people responsible for these dogs have been asked or about to be ... what ever the owners have said or will say the dogs in question are out of i do not know at this time , and just because someone is a committee person doesn't give them the right to call anyone a lier , unless theres 100% proof

Theres 4 dogs been questioned at present that i am aware of ...out of the four ...one dog and its owner/owners have never attempted to register or run the dog in question with either the NNERF or the BWRA to date ...so theres no rules broken there ... the owner has quite openly admitted the dog is a greyhound so despite weather or not they were going to attempt registering it ...THERE NOT NOW ..none ped members can own what ever breed of dog they like remember

The other 3 dogs are under investigation at the nnwrf at present ...thats all i can say on here , without incriminating anyone or myself