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what should we do as responsable breeders stay on our breeding lines or do outcrosses let me know your views
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i agree with nicky on this one, plenty suitible stud dogs, to use why use the father, im pretty sure its this sort of breeding that has messed up the gsd's and the king charles's.nicky12 said:i wouldnt personaly do this myself ,although im no breeder ,but do plan on having one litter off my tia ,but would never dream of using her father or brother come to that :blink: althou i see from past post you have linned you bitch to her father shurley this is not a good thing to do :blink: i mean we wouldnt as humans be having babies with father and daught or brother and sister would we (well not unless your some twisted perv ) :unsure:
I mostly line bred Basset Hounds and Pointers and outcrossed ocassionally, but always bred type to type but my bitch lines in both breeds were strong. I guess you need to know how close you can go... I never did Parent to Offspring or litter mates nor same pedigree/s.... but I bred to common ancestry and would try and keep two lines running on one bitch/dog in a pedigree. To line breed you must know which dogs are prepotent and which carry hereditary problems Avoid the latter or don't double up on them.... you may need their input to improve or retain other qualities, but you must be careful.kerrie.picolo@btinternet.com said:what should we do as responsable breeders stay on our breeding lines or do outcrosses let me know your views
not in my house its not ther right up ther with my kidschakrata said:I mostly line bred Basset Hounds and Pointers and outcrossed ocassionally, but always bred type to type but my bitch lines in both breeds were strong. I guess you need to know how close you can go... I never did Parent to Offspring or litter mates nor same pedigree/s.... but I bred to common ancestry and would try and keep two lines running on one bitch/dog in a pedigree. To line breed you must know which dogs are prepotent and which carry hereditary problems Avoid the latter or don't double up on them.... you may need their input to improve or retain other qualities, but you must be careful.kerrie.picolo@btinternet.com said:what should we do as responsable breeders stay on our breeding lines or do outcrosses let me know your views
[SIZE=21pt]I think we should always remember that the canine is a lower form of life [/SIZE]and should not be confused with human life that is far more complex
I am not experienced with Whippet breeding but I hear contradictory comment on line breeding this breed..... many say they don't always breed to type..... I don't know.... I do look at the Whippets I have in my kennel and can easily recognise family commonalities and align with others of their family who are owned and bred on by others. I guess I have two families, both linked in their bitch line but very different in the dog line.... the dog line is outcrossed in both families.
A great topic for discussion
affieluver said:well i dont think line breeding is a problem providing it is done responsibly mating its dog with either of its parents or grandparents for me is a definate no no
but done along the same line with different heritage for me would be ok after all you could use the same kennel but a different dog
katie i bet if you look far enough back in ruby and stars pedigree you will probably see a lot of line breeding theres nothing wrong providing its done with the dogs health and welfare in mind first :thumbsup:
nicky12 said:not in my house its not ther right up ther with my kidschakrata said:I mostly line bred Basset Hounds and Pointers and outcrossed ocassionally, but always bred type to type but my bitch lines in both breeds were strong. I guess you need to know how close you can go... I never did Parent to Offspring or litter mates nor same pedigree/s.... but I bred to common ancestry and would try and keep two lines running on one bitch/dog in a pedigree. To line breed you must know which dogs are prepotent and which carry hereditary problems Avoid the latter or don't double up on them.... you may need their input to improve or retain other qualities, but you must be careful.kerrie.picolo@btinternet.com said:what should we do as responsable breeders stay on our breeding lines or do outcrosses let me know your views
[SIZE=21pt]I think we should always remember that the canine is a lower form of life [/SIZE]and should not be confused with human life that is far more complex
I am not experienced with Whippet breeding but I hear contradictory comment on line breeding this breed..... many say they don't always breed to type..... I don't know.... I do look at the Whippets I have in my kennel and can easily recognise family commonalities and align with others of their family who are owned and bred on by others. I guess I have two families, both linked in their bitch line but very different in the dog line.... the dog line is outcrossed in both families.
A great topic for discussion
see what you mean katie i thought you meant you wouldnt have anything related at all :lol:k4tie-d said:affieluver said:well i dont think line breeding is a problem providing it is done responsibly mating its dog with either of its parents or grandparents for me is a definate no no
but done along the same line with different heritage for me would be ok after all you could use the same kennel but a different dog
katie i bet if you look far enough back in ruby and stars pedigree you will probably see a lot of line breeding theres nothing wrong providing its done with the dogs health and welfare in mind first :thumbsup:
kelly, i can quite believe if you go through all pedigrees there is someone somewhere but that cant be helped now, i mean i wouldnt have a pup from a derect line mating.
i just dont think their is any need to do father or grandfather/ daughter matings.
What a completely scientifically uninformed remark. The heredity of health conditions that have a complex genetic cause is actually very similar in most mammals.chakrata said:I think we should always remember that the canine is a lower form of life and should not be confused with human life that is far more complex
Eceni said:Didn't Natalia give an exceptionally good, clear paper on exactly this question at the Convention (maybe not the right name?) in Sweden?
I do have a copy of it, but not sure it's legal to post it - and it is rather long. But perhaps there's an on-line copy somewhere...?
(Natalia's a population geneticist with a particular interest in dog population genetics and a specific interest in whippets who was invited to give a paper on in-breeding and health)
I can summarise it if people want
ms
It is a shame there is not an easy bit of software that will help you calculate the coefficient. If it was part of the Whippet Archives it would be even betterjayp said:Line breeding is inbreeding end of
A coefficient of inbreeding calculates the probability of the pair of genes (alleles) passed from each parent being the same.
It is very complex and is not as simple as saying close inbreeding is unacceptable and line breeding is ok as it does rather depend on how tightly bred the individuals are.
Any outcross will immediately reduce the inbreeding coefficient to 0 as the probability that the genes passed from each parent to the offspring being the same is 0
This is why knowing the inbreeding coefficient of your own breeding stock as well as that of the dog you are using enables you to consider this along with other aspects of the proposed mating.
There is, Its Pedigree Software Breeders Assistant, the coefficient software is called Fspeed and there is a free download~JO~ said:It is a shame there is not an easy bit of software that will help you calculate the coefficient. If it was part of the Whippet Archives it would be even betterjayp said:Line breeding is inbreeding end of
A coefficient of inbreeding calculates the probability of the pair of genes (alleles) passed from each parent being the same.
It is very complex and is not as simple as saying close inbreeding is unacceptable and line breeding is ok as it does rather depend on how tightly bred the individuals are.
Any outcross will immediately reduce the inbreeding coefficient to 0 as the probability that the genes passed from each parent to the offspring being the same is 0
This is why knowing the inbreeding coefficient of your own breeding stock as well as that of the dog you are using enables you to consider this along with other aspects of the proposed mating.
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