Littermate Syndrome

[Violet Turner]

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I thought Olive was a rescue? But you were debating on breeding her? Again? I don't know....things aren't quite adding up here. And the fact you want to breed a "rescue" dog's puppy already was discussed. Honestly, I've been starting to not buy she was a rescue. You're too into the thought of breeding these dogs for me to think she's a rescue anymore.

It was just an idea because if you breed a dog once it can lead to health problems within the bitch. No, i don't want to breed from Doris it was just an idea that had sprung to mind but i have asked my local animal shelter and if a pregnant bitch comes in then i will foster them until they are born. Why would you question Olive @thedogsbeforetime? I'm still confused @thedogsbeforetime

 

[Violet Turner]

My God could you imagine having two puppies at the same time I'd be booking myself in voluntarily after the breakdown that I'd have!

Definitely would be too much stress.

I have done it before, but i contemplate doing it again

 

[JudyN]

if you breed a dog once it can lead to health problems within the bitch.

Can you give any sources for that? I'm curious as it's the first I've heard of it.

 

[Violet Turner]

Can you give any sources for that? I'm curious as it's the first I've heard of it.

I'm just about to leave can i write a post on it? That's only if it would be nectary for other dog owners. I totally understand if you don't believe me but i know this fact.

 

[JudyN]

Yeah, no rush. I'd be interested to see an independent source on it rather than your own thoughts. But you're meant to be on holiday and not running up your mobile costs so go and enjoy yourself!

 

[JoanneF]

Why would you question Olive?

Well I certainly understand why people are confused. I know I am.

On the one hand you made it clear Doris was found as a stray and you rescued her without knowing she was pregnant.

i rescued olive (mini schnauzer) from Spain little did I know she would come pregnant

When I got back to the UK we ended up finding out olive was pregnant

she was given over to me as she was a stray

But you also seem to have detailed knowledge of when and how she was mated - you said the following.

no she didn't come pregnant

Of her mating dates -

9th of November 2017 and 11th of November 2017 so she should be about 60 days gestation

And pre mating health checks on the sire as well as Doris -

yes they both had heath tests

Do you have the Hip score papers and DNA papers and BVA certificate paperwork

Thanks yes I have all the documentation

So you can see why people are confused.

 

[Violet Turner]

Well I certainly understand why people are confused. I know I am.

On the one hand you made it clear Doris was found as a stray and you rescued her without knowing she was pregnant.







But you also seem to have detailed knowledge of when and how she was mated - you said the following.



Of her mating dates -


And pre mating health checks on the sire as well as Doris -





So you can see why people are confused.

The dates were an estimate, and the other dogs were health checked after and i have the documents for this, Well I'm sorry i have never made it clear enough. so what if she wasn't a rescue (she is but I'm just asking) ?

 

[Violet Turner]

@JudyN and @JoanneF For now as I'm still on holiday, Is it true that you should allow bitches to have one litter?
Behaviour problems and Cancer

 

[JudyN]

@JudyN and @JoanneF For now as I'm still on holiday, Is it true that you should allow bitches to have one litter?
Behaviour problems and Cancer

I know you're on holiday so don't worry about replying any time soon, but I can't see anything there to suggest that having one litter is bad for a dog compared to having two or more - only that being allowed to have one litter can be less healthy than having none.

 

[leashedForLife]

@JudyN and

@JoanneF For now as I'm still on holiday,
Is it true that you should allow bitches to have one litter?

Behaviour problems and Cancer

.

That link is to Yahoo-Answers, a bulletin-board where anyone can ask or answer a question. :--\
The quality of answers varies wildly, from total cr*p, to reasonably-reliable with cited references.
Also, the answers are rated by the community - the general public - who may or may not know anything about the topic that they're judging.

The Q reads,
"Is it true that you should allow bitches to have one litter?
We have a chocolate Labrador aged 6-months, & I suspect she's about to come into season; this prompted me to make arrangements to have her spayed (I was told to wait until after her 1st season to have it done).
When I mentioned this to a colleague, I was told that it's cruel to deny her a litter of pups, & that it's better for her temperament to allow her to become a mother at least once. I'm not sure I believe this to be true, but wondered if anyone has thoughts on this.
I don't intend breeding her, she was bought as a family pet & is a happy, content, well-behaved, & much loved addition to our family.
Any guidance or experience will be greatly received, Thanks x"

I'll quote the Best Answer - blue added for emphasis:
"Best Answer:
It is a complete myth that it's better to let a female dog have one litter before spaying her. Medical evidence indicates the opposite - the evidence shows that females spayed before their first heat are typically healthier.
Also, pets have no understanding of sexual identity nor regret they couldn't be a 'mother', so it's in no way cruel to your dog. Re temperament, spaying will change temperament very little; in some dogs, it will calm them slightly and make them less likely to wander or fight with other dogs - not a bad thing!
You don't need to wait for your dog to have a season before desexing. Every season increases the risk of cancers & also the risk of your dog becoming accidentally pregnant.

I'm really pleased you have decided to spay your dog. It is a very responsible decision. See the links below for more reasons to back up your decision.

Source(s):http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/myths_...
National Desexing Network | Benefits of Desexing

Experience working with dogs desexed before their first season
K9trainer · 9 years ago
==========================================

So i'm not sure exactly what Ur conclusion is, per cancer & spay - according to this poster, 'K9Trainer', cancer rates go up with each estrus. // In point of fact, AGE is a strong factor in cancer risk; younger animals are far-less likely to have any cancers, while aging seniors are far-more likely to have cancers of any & all types. That doesn't mean that cancer is the cause of death: 1 in 4 dogs in the U-S dies with cancer somewhere in their body, but they die of all manner of other problems, not cancer.

Unless U want Ur dog to die young & make a pretty corpse, the best preventive of mammary cancer is to spay her prior to her 1st estrus; the best preventives of all cancers across the spectrum are One, prevent obesity in our pets, by feeding them apropos calories & keeping them fit, & Two, limit their lifetime exposure to environmental insults [ag chemicals, lawn chemicals, other toxins, fire-retardants, pesticides, herbicides, etc].
That means using green lawn-care methods, organic gardening methods, filtering our drinking water, eating organic & feeding organic to our pets, avoiding clothing, upholstery, & furniture full of fire-retardants, no formaldehyde in our wallboard or flooring, etc.
Skip the chemical aerosols & use organic or nontoxic cleaners; put a HEPA filter on the house air-return to filter out unburned hydrocarbons & other air-pollutants. Remove YOUR SHOES when U enter the house, & put on house-slippers, to prevent all that microdebris from lodging deep in carpet, rugs, & upholstery, or sifting into crevices in the floor. Wipe the dog's legs, feet & belly when they enter the house.

I have no idea if U mean to allege that "dogs who have one litter only are prone to health problems", or something else, but in point of fact, every estrus increases a dog's risk of mammary cancer, pyometra, & UTI.
Every mating puts a bitch at risk of pregnancy complications, whelping complications, uterine infections, gestational diabetes, STDs, etc; if we want dogs to continue as a species, we obv need bitches & litters [& sires], but that doesn't mean every F needs to run the gauntlet of risks, & get pregnant, or even go thru a single estrus.

- terry

.

 

[Violet Turner]

.

That link is to Yahoo-Answers, a bulletin-board where anyone can ask or answer a question. :--\
The quality of answers varies wildly, from total cr*p, to reasonably-reliable with cited references.
Also, the answers are rated by the community - the general public - who may or may not know anything about the topic that they're judging.

The Q reads,
"Is it true that you should allow bitches to have one litter?
We have a chocolate Labrador aged 6-months, & I suspect she's about to come into season; this prompted me to make arrangements to have her spayed (I was told to wait until after her 1st season to have it done).
When I mentioned this to a colleague, I was told that it's cruel to deny her a litter of pups, & that it's better for her temperament to allow her to become a mother at least once. I'm not sure I believe this to be true, but wondered if anyone has thoughts on this.
I don't intend breeding her, she was bought as a family pet & is a happy, content, well-behaved, & much loved addition to our family.
Any guidance or experience will be greatly received, Thanks x"

I'll quote the Best Answer - blue added for emphasis:
"Best Answer:
It is a complete myth that it's better to let a female dog have one litter before spaying her. Medical evidence indicates the opposite - the evidence shows that females spayed before their first heat are typically healthier.
Also, pets have no understanding of sexual identity nor regret they couldn't be a 'mother', so it's in no way cruel to your dog. Re temperament, spaying will change temperament very little; in some dogs, it will calm them slightly and make them less likely to wander or fight with other dogs - not a bad thing!
You don't need to wait for your dog to have a season before desexing. Every season increases the risk of cancers & also the risk of your dog becoming accidentally pregnant.

I'm really pleased you have decided to spay your dog. It is a very responsible decision. See the links below for more reasons to back up your decision.

Source(s):http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/myths_...
National Desexing Network | Benefits of Desexing

Experience working with dogs desexed before their first season
K9trainer · 9 years ago
==========================================

So i'm not sure exactly what Ur conclusion is, per cancer & spay - according to this poster, 'K9Trainer', cancer rates go up with each estrus. // In point of fact, AGE is a strong factor in cancer risk; younger animals are far-less likely to have any cancers, while aging seniors are far-more likely to have cancers of any & all types. That doesn't mean that cancer is the cause of death: 1 in 4 dogs in the U-S dies with cancer somewhere in their body, but they die of all manner of other problems, not cancer.

Unless U want Ur dog to die young & make a pretty corpse, the best preventive of mammary cancer is to spay her prior to her 1st estrus; the best preventives of all cancers across the spectrum are One, prevent obesity in our pets, by feeding them apropos calories & keeping them fit, & Two, limit their lifetime exposure to environmental insults [ag chemicals, lawn chemicals, other toxins, fire-retardants, pesticides, herbicides, etc].
That means using green lawn-care methods, organic gardening methods, filtering our drinking water, eating organic & feeding organic to our pets, avoiding clothing, upholstery, & furniture full of fire-retardants, no formaldehyde in our wallboard or flooring, etc.
Skip the chemical aerosols & use organic or nontoxic cleaners; put a HEPA filter on the house air-return to filter out unburned hydrocarbons & other air-pollutants. Remove YOUR SHOES when U enter the house, & put on house-slippers, to prevent all that microdebris from lodging deep in carpet, rugs, & upholstery, or sifting into crevices in the floor. Wipe the dog's legs, feet & belly when they enter the house.

I have no idea if U mean to allege that "dogs who have one litter only are prone to health problems", or something else, but in point of fact, every estrus increases a dog's risk of mammary cancer, pyometra, & UTI.
Every mating puts a bitch at risk of pregnancy complications, whelping complications, uterine infections, gestational diabetes, STDs, etc; if we want dogs to continue as a species, we obv need bitches & litters [& sires], but that doesn't mean every F needs to run the gauntlet of risks, & get pregnant, or even go thru a single estrus.

- terry

.

I understand where your coming from 100%