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[wild whippies]

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Just as a matter of interest, what is Sonny's stud fee. There is a reason for this question by the way. I'll tell you when you answer my query! )

IF I charge them Anne I charge £150, I have on occassion asked for a pup if I like a bitches working abilities(I have been out with most of the bitches brought to him) and then GIVEN those pups to friends who work their dogs

And if people honestly think restricting the use of stud dogs to the general public is going to stop the breeding of pups then they are mistaken, and I think most people are hypocritical, if it isnt about money then only charge £100/pup about the cost of rearing one properly not £600 for one from shown parents

Restricting stud use wont cull puppy farming UNLESS some form of compulsary licencing was brought in. If dogs could be traced back to their owners and rescues could reimburse from the breeder their costs for housing and rehoming then people wouldn't look at breeding dogs as a second income. However.......

As you know Darren the Kennel Club are to restrict the number of litters a bitch can have, do you think that legislation should be brought in to restrict the number of litters a dog can sire and if so how would you decide which bitches were more suitable than others. In addition do you think all dogs should be DNA profiled and do you agree that there are too many whippet puppies being bred and is this a ticking time bomb for the rescue organisations to have to deal with.

Restricting stud duties to twice per year over a studs lifetime would be beneficial to genetic diversity. DNA profiling would of course be a neccesity to ensure this is adhered to. My own opinion is that the KC should get their finger out and make registration something of worth but they cannot do this on their own..

Where responsible breeders fall flat on their faces is by letting their breedlines fall into dubious hands. Responsible breeders should be spending a small fortune on conditioning their dogs and should be tight fisted about who gets their pups and who uses their studs. Pups not being retained by the breeder should be sold at minimal price without papers. If every decent breeder did this there would be two outcomes - 1) Those puppy farmers riding on your coat tails would be undercut by the market 2) those amateur dog breeders who decide they'll make a quick buck from your pup one day will decide the expenditure of such a venture too expensive to bother with.

The fact is though, the vast majority of breeders are too stubborn to devalue their lines, putting all their worth on a piece of paper that is slowly becoming attributed to buying a dog with genetic defects.

Non-peds probably have the biggest expenditure as a whippet. Being the fastest of the breeds, they are more likely to pick up an injury. These dogs are fed lots of high quality feed and fresh meat for muscle conditioning. They go to vets, osteopaths, physios and greyhound men, more often than not at the other end of the country on a monthly basis. Owners take them swimming, buy expensive physio equipment, porta mags, embrocations, treadmills etc etc. They go racing weekly at clubs and across the country at events on the weekends. The expenditure is huge along with the time.

Price of a stud about £100. Price of a pup £150 - £250.

Keeping 21 racers, youngsters and OAP's to their dying day regardless of their abilities - Priceless.

I think our bank manager would say we're definately going wrong somewhere but I can sleep well at night knowing dogs we've bred are either sleeping in our home or with loving pet homes where their owners couldn't give a damn about their breeding because all they ever wanted was a pet whippet and that was exactly what they was sold.

 

[wild whippies]

I see it like this in the dog world....lots of people showing dogs. Rushing to Gain champ status then for some bizare reason they then think they have a dog worthy of breeding/studding.Ok the dog has been shown to have good confirmation from many judges...what does this prove, nothing just that it has good confirmation.I see alot of show folk breeding for the look of a whippet or what ever breed.What about testing for prey drive,tenacity and all the other qualitys that a judge cant tell you from just looking at it walking round a ring.The point is we should be breeding the very best to the very best and the truth is if this was done.There realy wouldnt be that many dogs worth breeding.The only way to know you have the best is testing and proving your dogs...confirmation is just one rung up a long ladder to proving you have a dog worthy of breeding.

De ja vu - not you personally clueless but this one's reared it's head before in another thread Darren started in the showing forum.

Showing whippets, working whippets and racing whippets are entirely different entities. The era of the multi purpose whippet are long gone.

The reason being is because people have indeed bred the best to the best. The fastest racing whippets have been bred to the fastest racers producing dogs that have become faster. The best show dogs have been bred to the best show dogs producing the best composition and form and so on.

Evolution has occured from selective breeding producing a breed which is massively genetically diverse. Should the worst arise and a defect develop in any of the sports there is a haven in that one can at least do a complete outcross to eliminate the fault.

If everyone tried breeding whippets that excelled in both racing, working and showing, you would find the gene pool would become smaller, faster.

and once again '' For every pup produced in a litter, 50% of DNA material is retained and 50% is lost, forever''

 

[Clueless]

Sighthound....the clue is in the name.

Its like going to the super market...picking up a orange...it looks like an orange..peals like an orange..but is tasteless and definitely no real orange.

 

[quintessence]

Sighthound....the clue is in the name.
Its like going to the super market...picking up a orange...it looks like an orange..peals like an orange..but is tasteless and definitely no real orange.

What is it then?

 

[wild whippies]

Sighthound....the clue is in the name.
Its like going to the super market...picking up a orange...it looks like an orange..peals like an orange..but is tasteless and definitely no real orange.

What is it then?

It's an orange.

Just like whippets, there are different types of orange with different tastes to suit. :thumbsup:

I'd be interested to see what constitutes a whippet?

Clueless? (w00t)

 

[Clueless]

Sighthound....the clue is in the name.
Its like going to the super market...picking up a orange...it looks like an orange..peals like an orange..but is tasteless and definitely no real orange.

What is it then?

An Immitation to fool those who want to be fooled.

 

[Clueless]

Sighthound....the clue is in the name.
Its like going to the super market...picking up a orange...it looks like an orange..peals like an orange..but is tasteless and definitely no real orange.

What is it then?

It's an orange.

Just like whippets, there are different types of orange with different tastes to suit. :thumbsup:

I'd be interested to see what constitutes a whippet?

Clueless? (w00t)

I said it was tasteless....somthings missing or is it missing.Just by showing alone one would never know.

 

[quintessence]

Sighthound....the clue is in the name.
Its like going to the super market...picking up a orange...it looks like an orange..peals like an orange..but is tasteless and definitely no real orange.

What is it then?

It's an orange.

Just like whippets, there are different types of orange with different tastes to suit. :thumbsup:

I'd be interested to see what constitutes a whippet?

Clueless? (w00t)

I said it was tasteless....somthings missing or is it missing.Just by showing alone one would never know.

If you're selling it as an orange then it is an orange that is why we have trading standards. A pedigree whippet is just that, that's why we have The Kennel Club - Simples

 

[wild whippies]

Sighthound....the clue is in the name.
Its like going to the super market...picking up a orange...it looks like an orange..peals like an orange..but is tasteless and definitely no real orange.

What is it then?

It's an orange.

Just like whippets, there are different types of orange with different tastes to suit. :thumbsup:

I'd be interested to see what constitutes a whippet?

Clueless? (w00t)

I said it was tasteless....somthings missing or is it missing.Just by showing alone one would never know.

Tasteless to you. Like I said different tastes to suit. It's still an orange because you clearly said, 'picking up an orange'. You identified it as an orange straight away.

What exactly do you mean by one would ever know? would never know what exactly?

Again, I would be interested to see what you think constitutes a whippet?

 

[bertha]

Where on earth are we going now????????????

The KC can say and do what they like. Honest people will abide by the rules as always. The people who do not care will do as they please. There is no way in law to stop them.

I hate al this.

 

[wild whippies]

A pedigree whippet is just that, that's why we have The Kennel Club - Simples

Not true. The kennel Club do not have any governing or ownership over the name 'whippet'.

Whippets were running around long before the KC came along and acknowledged them as a breed. The original whippet is still in existance today being bred exactly like it was before the KC and doing exactly what it was doing before the KC got involved.

Non-ped whippets can provide a pedigree going back way before the KC existed and if anyone has the inclination and went back far enough on their precious KC registered whippets they'd see they originate from the non-ped whippet, a dog whose original purpose was for racing and racing alone.

Pathe will substantiate what I say as fact and I challenge anyone to provide any better evidence than films that were taken at that time.

Why do people put so much faith in a piece of paper that can be fraudulant? why do people seem hellbent on thinking their dog is better than another dog?

Can't you all just admit (if only to yourselves) that the fact is whippets are not a breed, they are a type. Just like terriers, all similar but with slightly different attributes with these being used for different purposes and doing the job well? :wacko:

 

[quintessence]

A pedigree whippet is just that, that's why we have The Kennel Club - Simples

Not true. The kennel Club do not have any governing or ownership over the name 'whippet'.

Whippets were running around long before the KC came along and acknowledged them as a breed. The original whippet is still in existance today being bred exactly like it was before the KC and doing exactly what it was doing before the KC got involved.

Non-ped whippets can provide a pedigree going back way before the KC existed and if anyone has the inclination and went back far enough on their precious KC registered whippets they'd see they originate from the non-ped whippet, a dog whose original purpose was for racing and racing alone.

Pathe will substantiate what I say as fact and I challenge anyone to provide any better evidence than films that were taken at that time.

Why do people put so much faith in a piece of paper that can be fraudulant? why do people seem hellbent on thinking their dog is better than another dog?

Can't you all just admit (if only to yourselves) that the fact is whippets are not a breed, they are a type. Just like terriers, all similar but with slightly different attributes with these being used for different purposes and doing the job well? :wacko:

Why do you refer to them as non-ped whippets, why not whippets?

 

[moretoniacarol@tiscali.co.uk]

Ho Ho Ho. this is an interesting debate i no longer breed whippets but found really good homes and charged very little for them most went to friends or came via someone elses recomendation, All my puppies have contracts to ensure well being and that i would always take them back regardless of age . I also have lurchers and attend a lot of game fairs which have shows and i have to say i see people with whippets and lurchers that i wouldnt have sold them a gold fish, any one can sell a dog but how much thought really goes into the home.Often they are under weight and owners are very heavy handed giving them a slap for the least little thing they do wrong there,s nothing wrong with a well trained dog but the working fraternity does attract some undesireables and who has sold them a dog.... i rest my case

 

[lolo]

i have been looking at and for the right whippet type for me for a good bit now to have as a second dog, i did not wont a dog out of some think that has just been bred for showing or by some one just trying to make money from just OK dogs that have never seen any think, non ped racers are good well bred dogs but it ant my thing, i was looking for a whippet from workers to do a bit with my self but i wonted it to look like a whippet not to big as some of them are over 21" or 22" just to big for me as a second dog and not wot i my self would call a whippet. after a good long look about over the net at working type shows specking to lads that are working there dogs and people that i trust, i have had a bitch pup out of Darren's litter, i have been out with this dog and he is a true worker i have never seen the bitch work but from wot i have been told from the lads that i trust she is a good one plus a few of them working lads have had pups out of the same litter or from Darren's sonny. i can see why lads are wanting to use him he can and will bring a lot to the table. a dog like this in my eyes deserves to be bred from. he is out there doing it day in day out a hell of a lot more them most whippets that are being bred from he is all so a nice type just the right size for wot i wont and has got a good ped. so i can not see any think wrong with breeding whippets like his.

 

[quintessence]

i have been looking at and for the right whippet type for me for a good bit now to have as a second dog, i did not wont a dog out of some think that has just been bred for showing or by some one just trying to make money from just OK dogs that have never seen any think, non ped racers are good well bred dogs but it ant my thing, i was looking for a whippet from workers to do a bit with my self but i wonted it to look like a whippet not to big as some of them are over 21" or 22" just to big for me as a second dog and not wot i my self would call a whippet. after a good long look about over the net at working type shows specking to lads that are working there dogs and people that i trust, i have had a bitch pup out of Darren's litter, i have been out with this dog and he is a true worker i have never seen the bitch work but from wot i have been told from the lads that i trust she is a good one plus a few of them working lads have had pups out of the same litter or from Darren's sonny. i can see why lads are wanting to use him he can and will bring a lot to the table. a dog like this in my eyes deserves to be bred from. he is out there doing it day in day out a hell of a lot more them most whippets that are being bred from he is all so a nice type just the right size for wot i wont and has got a good ped. so i can not see any think wrong with breeding whippets like his.

Sounds like you did your homework and got exactly what you wanted :thumbsup:

 

[wild whippies]

A pedigree whippet is just that, that's why we have The Kennel Club - Simples

Not true. The kennel Club do not have any governing or ownership over the name 'whippet'.

Whippets were running around long before the KC came along and acknowledged them as a breed. The original whippet is still in existance today being bred exactly like it was before the KC and doing exactly what it was doing before the KC got involved.

Non-ped whippets can provide a pedigree going back way before the KC existed and if anyone has the inclination and went back far enough on their precious KC registered whippets they'd see they originate from the non-ped whippet, a dog whose original purpose was for racing and racing alone.

Pathe will substantiate what I say as fact and I challenge anyone to provide any better evidence than films that were taken at that time.

Why do people put so much faith in a piece of paper that can be fraudulant? why do people seem hellbent on thinking their dog is better than another dog?

Can't you all just admit (if only to yourselves) that the fact is whippets are not a breed, they are a type. Just like terriers, all similar but with slightly different attributes with these being used for different purposes and doing the job well? :wacko:

Why do you refer to them as non-ped whippets, why not whippets?

Because on K9 that's the only term you understand. :wacko:

They all have pedigrees, I doubt any of them will be fraudulant (because there is no gain in lying about your breeding)

They are non KC registered whippets. Dogs are registered with The British WHIPPET Racing Association and The National WHIPPET Racing Federation.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=12476

1940 video of whippets being raced.

 

[wild whippies]

i have been looking at and for the right whippet type for me for a good bit now to have as a second dog, i did not wont a dog out of some think that has just been bred for showing or by some one just trying to make money from just OK dogs that have never seen any think, non ped racers are good well bred dogs but it ant my thing, i was looking for a whippet from workers to do a bit with my self but i wonted it to look like a whippet not to big as some of them are over 21" or 22" just to big for me as a second dog and not wot i my self would call a whippet. after a good long look about over the net at working type shows specking to lads that are working there dogs and people that i trust, i have had a bitch pup out of Darren's litter, i have been out with this dog and he is a true worker i have never seen the bitch work but from wot i have been told from the lads that i trust she is a good one plus a few of them working lads have had pups out of the same litter or from Darren's sonny. i can see why lads are wanting to use him he can and will bring a lot to the table. a dog like this in my eyes deserves to be bred from. he is out there doing it day in day out a hell of a lot more them most whippets that are being bred from he is all so a nice type just the right size for wot i wont and has got a good ped. so i can not see any think wrong with breeding whippets like his.

No-one so far has actually said he is wrong. By all accounts their owners are happy with their pups so they're meeting their purpose. Whether they will go on to be excellent working dogs is yet to be seen because a) they are pups and b) judging how good a working dog really is difficult because they are rarely pitted against one another at a competitive level. The fact is though it really doesn't matter so long as the owner is happy with their dog. :thumbsup:

 

[bertha]

i have been looking at and for the right whippet type for me for a good bit now to have as a second dog, i did not wont a dog out of some think that has just been bred for showing or by some one just trying to make money from just OK dogs that have never seen any think, non ped racers are good well bred dogs but it ant my thing, i was looking for a whippet from workers to do a bit with my self but i wonted it to look like a whippet not to big as some of them are over 21" or 22" just to big for me as a second dog and not wot i my self would call a whippet. after a good long look about over the net at working type shows specking to lads that are working there dogs and people that i trust, i have had a bitch pup out of Darren's litter, i have been out with this dog and he is a true worker i have never seen the bitch work but from wot i have been told from the lads that i trust she is a good one plus a few of them working lads have had pups out of the same litter or from Darren's sonny. i can see why lads are wanting to use him he can and will bring a lot to the table. a dog like this in my eyes deserves to be bred from. he is out there doing it day in day out a hell of a lot more them most whippets that are being bred from he is all so a nice type just the right size for wot i wont and has got a good ped. so i can not see any think wrong with breeding whippets like his.

No-one so far has actually said he is wrong. By all accounts their owners are happy with their pups so they're meeting their purpose. Whether they will go on to be excellent working dogs is yet to be seen because a) they are pups and b) judging how good a working dog really is difficult because they are rarely pitted against one another at a competitive level. The fact is though it really doesn't matter so long as the owner is happy with their dog. :thumbsup:

That's it!!!!!!! Well said. The pups have good homes and the owners are please with them. End of story. :thumbsup:

 

[DarrenG]

i have been looking at and for the right whippet type for me for a good bit now to have as a second dog, i did not wont a dog out of some think that has just been bred for showing or by some one just trying to make money from just OK dogs that have never seen any think, non ped racers are good well bred dogs but it ant my thing, i was looking for a whippet from workers to do a bit with my self but i wonted it to look like a whippet not to big as some of them are over 21" or 22" just to big for me as a second dog and not wot i my self would call a whippet. after a good long look about over the net at working type shows specking to lads that are working there dogs and people that i trust, i have had a bitch pup out of Darren's litter, i have been out with this dog and he is a true worker i have never seen the bitch work but from wot i have been told from the lads that i trust she is a good one plus a few of them working lads have had pups out of the same litter or from Darren's sonny. i can see why lads are wanting to use him he can and will bring a lot to the table. a dog like this in my eyes deserves to be bred from. he is out there doing it day in day out a hell of a lot more them most whippets that are being bred from he is all so a nice type just the right size for wot i wont and has got a good ped. so i can not see any think wrong with breeding whippets like his.

No-one so far has actually said he is wrong. By all accounts their owners are happy with their pups so they're meeting their purpose. Whether they will go on to be excellent working dogs is yet to be seen because a) they are pups and b) judging how good a working dog really is difficult because they are rarely pitted against one another at a competitive level. The fact is though it really doesn't matter so long as the owner is happy with their dog. :thumbsup:

actually I do compete with him in the field

also Mally that so many of you on here seem to swoon over and hang on every word challenged me if you remember and he lost his bottle in the end, my dog is out there every week being compared against other whippets, last weekend 4 others came with their dogs, this weekend 2 others came it is like this EVERY weekend and odd nights through the week, many have seen Sonny work this is why they want his pups, because he is doing what whippets were originally bred to do, put food on the table, infact with witnesses on EVERY occassion over 7wks Sonny caught 501 lamped rabbits these witnesses were Karl Hennig and Nigel Lawrence and Michael Gardiner all members on Poachers rest this is why his pups are sold before they are weaned and I can say hand on heart nearly everyone that has used Sonny over a bitch has kept a pup back, but hey as wildwhippies said if you only want a pet you want one such as what us workers breed personally I think its good for the breed that pups are spoken for before they are born/weaned can some of these pups from the adverts of show winning parents that are still for sale at 16+wks honestly say the pup is getting ALL the one on one attention it deserves?But heyho its a better pup because it comes from parents that are doing an un natural thing ....SHOWING.Whippets are designed to run so pups from parents that are good in the field are far nearer to what the original breeders wanted.I think more people probably keep whippets for sport than showing and even more keep them just for pets, so WHY do the show fraternity believe they should have the monopoly?

Anyway STILL no one has answered, if it isnt about money why are most show pups £600+ ea and not £100ea

as for paper hanging well thats even worse in the non peds is it not?

as for people who have working dogs moretoniacarol there seems to be far more cruelty cases reported from well known show breeders and judges than there does the working fraternity , how many times do you hear on the news of successfull show knls(all breeds) being prosecuted for keeping incredible numbers of dogs in cages throughout their houses.

 

[rolysmate]

i have been looking at and for the right whippet type for me for a good bit now to have as a second dog, i did not wont a dog out of some think that has just been bred for showing or by some one just trying to make money from just OK dogs that have never seen any think, non ped racers are good well bred dogs but it ant my thing, i was looking for a whippet from workers to do a bit with my self but i wonted it to look like a whippet not to big as some of them are over 21" or 22" just to big for me as a second dog and not wot i my self would call a whippet. after a good long look about over the net at working type shows specking to lads that are working there dogs and people that i trust, i have had a bitch pup out of Darren's litter, i have been out with this dog and he is a true worker i have never seen the bitch work but from wot i have been told from the lads that i trust she is a good one plus a few of them working lads have had pups out of the same litter or from Darren's sonny. i can see why lads are wanting to use him he can and will bring a lot to the table. a dog like this in my eyes deserves to be bred from. he is out there doing it day in day out a hell of a lot more them most whippets that are being bred from he is all so a nice type just the right size for wot i wont and has got a good ped. so i can not see any think wrong with breeding whippets like his.

No-one so far has actually said he is wrong. By all accounts their owners are happy with their pups so they're meeting their purpose. Whether they will go on to be excellent working dogs is yet to be seen because a) they are pups and b) judging how good a working dog really is difficult because they are rarely pitted against one another at a competitive level. The fact is though it really doesn't matter so long as the owner is happy with their dog. :thumbsup:

actually I do compete with him in the field

also Mally that so many of you on here seem to swoon over and hang on every word challenged me if you remember and he lost his bottle in the end, my dog is out there every week being compared against other whippets, last weekend 4 others came with their dogs, this weekend 2 others came it is like this EVERY weekend and odd nights through the week, many have seen Sonny work this is why they want his pups, because he is doing what whippets were originally bred to do, put food on the table, infact with witnesses on EVERY occassion over 7wks Sonny caught 501 lamped rabbits these witnesses were Karl Hennig and Nigel Lawrence and Michael Gardiner all members on Poachers rest this is why his pups are sold before they are weaned and I can say hand on heart nearly everyone that has used Sonny over a bitch has kept a pup back, but hey as wildwhippies said if you only want a pet you want one such as what us workers breed personally I think its good for the breed that pups are spoken for before they are born/weaned can some of these pups from the adverts of show winning parents that are still for sale at 16+wks honestly say the pup is getting ALL the one on one attention it deserves?But heyho its a better pup because it comes from parents that are doing an un natural thing ....SHOWING.Whippets are designed to run so pups from parents that are good in the field are far nearer to what the original breeders wanted.I think more people probably keep whippets for sport than showing and even more keep them just for pets, so WHY do the show fraternity believe they should have the monopoly?

Anyway STILL no one has answered, if it isnt about money why are most show pups £600+ ea and not £100ea

as for paper hanging well thats even worse in the non peds is it not?

as for people who have working dogs moretoniacarol there seems to be far more cruelty cases reported from well known show breeders and judges than there does the working fraternity , how many times do you hear on the news of successfull show knls(all breeds) being prosecuted for keeping incredible numbers of dogs in cages throughout their houses.

I have just read through this thread with interest as I am one of the bitch owners who have used sonny.

I didnt just choose sonny at the drop of a hat, I bred because I wanted to retain a puppy myself and put a lot of thought and effort into choosing a stud dog.

Sonny for me is a nice specimen of the whippet breed as far as I am concerned, he"s a nice size falling inside the kc criteria and works well in the field.

Three pups where accounted for even before the mating took place all to people I know and trust and the others have all gone to homes that I am more than happy with.

ANY that fall on hard times and I"m talking about the pups will allways be welcome back and I would expect that I would be the 1st port of call in the event of any of these pups needing rehoming.