Maiden Groups

[Carol Brown]

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Sorry Julie, I lost the plot after Sweep won, and then I was seeing to his toe that's a bit poorly   Don't know if you saw them, but one of the others got the furry bit off the lure, and whizzed round to get it away from Sweep, but Sweep chased him round, and they both were spinning like mad things round and round.  I think he must have damaged his toe then  :wacko:   Just before the final he had been walking on 3 legs.  He caught his back leg in the cage as he and his sister rushed to be first out :- "  We thought he wouldn't be able to run, but after a couple of minutes he forgot about it :lol:   He's seeing the vet tomorrow, so hopefully he will be on the mend soon - he loves all the TLC though :huggles:

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Quick update on Sweep, he has sprained a ligament in his toe, but the vet thinks with lead exercise only and lots of TLC Bone Radial etc he should be OK for the Champs. He suggested we use one of the inner tubes that some people use to support their dogs toes - so if anyone has any advice or uses one, I could do with some tips :thumbsup: So, not quite as bad as I thought

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Many thanks for all your construtive comments

When Misty Boy (Split Lips) won his Maiden at Andover, that Sunday evening I telephoned Maidstone WRCh who was the next Open with Maiden Groups.racing on the very next Sunday to advise & request my dog to be transered from the Maiden Group in to the Main and advised that this was not a problem.

To solve this situation I can see no reason why other Clubs cannot do this.

The WCRA did slot dogs on to the program on the day of the Championships , and no problem was caused, and I have been to an open this year where dogs have been added to the program on the day and this did not cause a problem.

I think that it would be a good idear if the draws are carried out on Mondays & not Sundays . The EAWRC always do there draw after the weekend incase the post has been delayed.

Ray Pond

Race Manager EAWRC

 

[Rae]

[

Many thanks for all your construtive comments

When Misty Boy (Split Lips) won his Maiden at Andover, that Sunday evening I telephoned Maidstone WRCh who was the next Open with Maiden Groups.racing on the very next Sunday to advise & request my dog to be transered from the Maiden Group in to the Main and advised that this was not a problem.

To solve this situation I can see no reason why other Clubs cannot do this.

The WCRA did slot dogs on to the program on the day of the Championships , and no problem was caused, and I have been to an open this year where dogs have been added to the program on the day and this did not cause a problem.

I think that it would be a good idear if the draws are carried out on Mondays & not Sundays . The EAWRC always do there draw after the weekend incase the post has been delayed.

Ray Pond

Race Manager EAWRC

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Margaret & Sue did the draw on the same day as the s cots open - I have no idea if it was before or after the results were available - however, considering the amount of things that need to be done to get the west somerset open ready - grass cut,edges strimmed, grass collected and removed, pa system organised, refreshments and catering, programmes checked and printed, helpers organised, gazebo's rounded up, fencing put up, bike serviced etc is it really reasonable to expect them to have rang for the results and checked to see if some dogs should have been out of the maiden group also? As far as I'm aware no-one called Margaret to say that they wanted their dog moved and I feel that the onus really should be on the owner to do so. Had they done so on the Sunday, or early Monday, it may have been possible as obviously the programmes weren't finished.

As for doing the draw on a Monday..... for weeks before hand the same few volunteers had been taking time off work to go to the ground and start to get things ready so it seems a bit unrealistic to me to suggest they should do yet more travelling and possibly have more time off, the day after they've been together racing, to do the draw. We're talking a minimum of an hours drive each way to get together. Most people have very busy lives and cant organise everything around racing.

I expect most clubs rely on the same committed few to keep them running, and having knocks like this can only make them wonder why on earth they bother.

Personally I think Margaret did a fantastic job as usual, especially considering she had to do it all only a few months after loosing Stephen

It's certainly true that you can't please everyone :- "

 

[Joanna]

[

Many thanks for all your construtive comments

When Misty Boy (Split Lips) won his Maiden at Andover, that Sunday evening I telephoned Maidstone WRCh who was the next Open with Maiden Groups.racing on the very next Sunday to advise & request my dog to be transered from the Maiden Group in to the Main and advised that this was not a problem.

To solve this situation I can see no reason why other Clubs cannot do this.

The WCRA did slot dogs on to the program on the day of the Championships , and no problem was caused, and I have been to an open this year where dogs have been added to the program on the day and this did not cause a problem.

I think that it would be a good idear if the draws are carried out on Mondays & not Sundays . The EAWRC always do there draw after the weekend incase the post has been delayed.

Ray Pond

Race Manager EAWRC

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Margaret & Sue did the draw on the same day as the s cots open - I have no idea if it was before or after the results were available - however, considering the amount of things that need to be done to get the west somerset open ready - grass cut,edges strimmed, grass collected and removed, pa system organised, refreshments and catering, programmes checked and printed, helpers organised, gazebo's rounded up, fencing put up, bike serviced etc is it really reasonable to expect them to have rang for the results and checked to see if some dogs should have been out of the maiden group also? As far as I'm aware no-one called Margaret to say that they wanted their dog moved and I feel that the onus really should be on the owner to do so. Had they done so on the Sunday, or early Monday, it may have been possible as obviously the programmes weren't finished.

As for doing the draw on a Monday..... for weeks before hand the same few volunteers had been taking time off work to go to the ground and start to get things ready so it seems a bit unrealistic to me to suggest they should do yet more travelling and possibly have more time off, the day after they've been together racing, to do the draw. We're talking a minimum of an hours drive each way to get together. Most people have very busy lives and cant organise everything around racing.

I expect most clubs rely on the same committed few to keep them running, and having knocks like this can only make them wonder why on earth they bother.

Personally I think Margaret did a fantastic job as usual, especially considering she had to do it all only a few months after loosing Stephen

It's certainly true that you can't please everyone :- "

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A good point about the draw Rae. I don't think any-one was being critical of Margaret and W.Somerset though (w00t)

The dog in question won the maiden at S.Cots, then Glos, then W.Somerset. To be fair to the owner (and any-one else who has been in this situation which must be a substantial number) historically, this is what has always happened. Why it has suddenly become an issue, I really don't know!

 

[Darcia]

Glad to hear that Sweeps toe is not too bad June :cheers: Hope that he will be fit and back on the track soon.

As regards maidens it does seem wrong that a dog can win three consecutive maidens, (and taking nothing away from the dog or blaming the owners) it shouldnt happen. Im thinking more of the dogs that came second on the second and third occasions and were denied the chance of winning a maiden. We all know full well that there are the dogs that will go on and win a couple of maidens and then reach the heights in the mains aswell but there are also the dogs that a maiden win might be the best that they will ever get - with new pups coming along all the time and so few maidens surely there must be a way of preventing multiple wins and allowing dogs to move groups even after the draw has been made. (because I understand what Rae is saying about the great deal of work that goes into running an open).

I know that people will say that this will open up the flood gates and then others will want their dogs moved groups aswell - too heavy/too light on the day etc but surely as an amateur sport that is supposed to be for fun if atall possible the dogs should be moved?

 

[Joanna]

Glad to hear that Sweeps toe is not too bad June  :cheers:   Hope that he will be fit and back on the track soon.
As regards maidens it does seem wrong that a dog can win three consecutive maidens, (and taking nothing away from the dog or blaming the owners) it shouldnt happen. Im thinking more of the dogs that came second on the second and third occasions and were denied the chance of winning a maiden. We all know full well that there are the dogs that will go on and win a couple of maidens and then reach the heights in the mains aswell but there are also the dogs that a maiden win might be the best that they will ever get - with new pups coming along all the time and so few maidens surely there must be a way of preventing multiple wins and allowing dogs to move groups even after the draw has been made. (because I understand what Rae is saying about the great deal of work that goes into running an open).

I know that people will say that this will open up the flood gates and then others will want their dogs moved groups aswell - too heavy/too light on the day etc but surely as an amateur sport that is supposed to be for fun if atall possible the dogs should be moved?

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There is nothing wrong with that suggestion at all Darcia, but it will need to be adopted by clubs who run maidens as a policy and advertised as such. The point I am making is that historically, this has not been the case. Just looking back to last year's results in the Whippet News, it happened at Cornwall with several dogs. I just feel sorry for the lady who owns the dog that is being discussed as it will surely make her feel most uncomfortable to read this when essentially, she has done nothing wrong. I was categorically told that my dog could remain in maidens at Glos the week after winning at SC as the draw had already taken place, the same would be true for the person who is being targeted in this discussion.

 

[peppermint lady]

jo...nobody is blaming the owner or even the clubs for that matter :thumbsup: , this is about possible changes taking place to move dogs that have won a maiden to the main group...as there are only 5 maidens a year...the point being made (i think) is its a shame with only 5...that 3 have been won by the same dog :wacko:

this is nothing to do with the owner/dog.. but more what can be done to move them sooner to give others a shot at the maiden group :thumbsup:

i think some people make more of an effort to get to an open if there is a maiden group

 

[Joanna]

jo...nobody is blaming the owner or even the clubs for that matter :thumbsup: , this is about possible changes taking place to move dogs that have won a maiden to the main group...as there are only 5 maidens a year...the point being made (i think) is its a shame with only 5...that 3 have been won by the same dog :wacko: this is nothing to do with the owner/dog.. but more what can be done to move them sooner to give others a shot at the maiden group :thumbsup:

i think some people make more of an effort to get to an open if there is a maiden group

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I know what you are saying Julie, but I just think this thread would make uncomfortable reading for the lady concerned. I agree entirely with the sentament,IF it was adopted as a clear requirement. It's just a shame when a dog has done so well to tarnish that joy. I am one of the people who have run a maiden after winning out, but was told that it was too late to change groups. It is a valid discussion, but is no by no means a cut dried situation as has been suggested by EAWRC representation. There just seemed a slightly unpleasant edge to the thread which hilighted the issue. I just think a little more sensativity could have been used :- "

May I just add, I don't even know the owner of this dog personally, apart from a nodd or a polite hello. It isn't a matter of defending a pal, just fairs fair.

 

[jade]

somerset did an brillant job no one i think was getting at any club or people just looking at the overall picture, and airing our views :thumbsup: glad to here sweeps going be ok june

 

[Joanna]

I think this would be a great topic for the Talk-In if that is an appropriate place for the discussion, having looked at the WCRA rules, I can't find any mention of Maidens. Is this just down to individual clubs?

Please don't think I am after a scrap with any-one, I think this is a really valid point and well worth discussing. My views are probably the same as most people's that we should change, but maybe there would need to be a criteria drawn up for fitting in dogs so that every-one was happy. For example, if there were three 4 dog races in a group already drawn, a maiden wnner would automatically be fitted into the first race of the group. If there was a three dog race in the group, the fourth slot of that race group would be used. It would need to be transparent and information circulated throughout the clubs via all media available before a change could take place. Hope this makes sense :cheers:

 

[Rae]

Totally agree Jo it would be a good discussion for a talk in, or for a seperate thread. The fact it was brought up on here suggests a criticism of WSWRC.

 

[Carol Brown]

[

Many thanks for all your construtive comments

When Misty Boy (Split Lips) won his Maiden at Andover, that Sunday evening I telephoned Maidstone WRCh who was the next Open with Maiden Groups.racing on the very next Sunday to advise & request my dog to be transered from the Maiden Group in to the Main and advised that this was not a problem.

To solve this situation I can see no reason why other Clubs cannot do this.

The WCRA did slot dogs on to the program on the day of the Championships , and no problem was caused, and I have been to an open this year where dogs have been added to the program on the day and this did not cause a problem.

I think that it would be a good idear if the draws are carried out on Mondays & not Sundays . The EAWRC always do there draw after the weekend incase the post has been delayed.

Ray Pond

Race Manager EAWRC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Margaret & Sue did the draw on the same day as the s cots open - I have no idea if it was before or after the results were available - however, considering the amount of things that need to be done to get the west somerset open ready - grass cut,edges strimmed, grass collected and removed, pa system organised, refreshments and catering, programmes checked and printed, helpers organised, gazebo's rounded up, fencing put up, bike serviced etc is it really reasonable to expect them to have rang for the results and checked to see if some dogs should have been out of the maiden group also? As far as I'm aware no-one called Margaret to say that they wanted their dog moved and I feel that the onus really should be on the owner to do so. Had they done so on the Sunday, or early Monday, it may have been possible as obviously the programmes weren't finished.

As for doing the draw on a Monday..... for weeks before hand the same few volunteers had been taking time off work to go to the ground and start to get things ready so it seems a bit unrealistic to me to suggest they should do yet more travelling and possibly have more time off, the day after they've been together racing, to do the draw. We're talking a minimum of an hours drive each way to get together. Most people have very busy lives and cant organise everything around racing.

I expect most clubs rely on the same committed few to keep them running, and having knocks like this can only make them wonder why on earth they bother.

Personally I think Margaret did a fantastic job as usual, especially considering she had to do it all only a few months after loosing Stephen

It's certainly true that you can't please everyone :- "

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A good point about the draw Rae. I don't think any-one was being critical of Margaret and W.Somerset though (w00t)

The dog in question won the maiden at S.Cots, then Glos, then W.Somerset. To be fair to the owner (and any-one else who has been in this situation which must be a substantial number) historically, this is what has always happened. Why it has suddenly become an issue, I really don't know!

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I am not criticizing any Club, I know what goes into running an Open.

I personally feel it is the resonsibility and honesty of the Owners to do there best to get it changed.

Ray Pond

Race Manager EAWRC

 

[jade]

i for one am not having a go at any owner dog or club i dont feel anyone else was on this tread we were just staying there may need to be changes for next year ,no one has broken any rules we not saying they have. well done to all the maiden winner over the past 3 opens :thumbsup: .weather you won 1 or more why do people have make sound like we were having ago

 

[peppermint lady]

:unsure: may be one of the mods :b could split this thread, and move the "maiden" talk on to its own bit so as not to tarnish somerset in any way :thumbsup:

i for one really enjoyed our first visit to somerset, margaret and her members put on a great open :cheers: and we will be heading that way again next year :thumbsup:

WELL DONE SOMERSET :cheers: :cheers:

 

[Joanna]

I am not criticizing any Club, I know what goes into running an Open.

I personally feel it is the resonsibility and honesty of the Owners to do there best to get it changed.

As I have already stated, I was told it was too late to move my dog out of the Maiden group at Glos sfter he won out at SC the week before. This is the current club policy. It is NOTHING to do with honesty, if it was a requirement to change the group and that is what the club expected or wanted, this is what I would have done.

Frankly, it is comments like this that put people's backs up. I am not dishonest which is your implication!

I daresay this will be the end of the discussion but if any-one could answer my questions about whose responsibility it is to oversee the ruling of Maidens, iwould be grateful. It is certainly some-thing I will be bringing up at Gloucester's AGM in November and I fully appreciate that there is a perceived need for change.

Julie, I think it would be a good idea to split the thread mate, well said :thumbsup:

 

[Judy]

As Julie suggested I have split the Maiden conversation from the West Somerset conversation as it might to some imply criticism of the West Somerset club when it was never meant to and doesn't really have anything to do with any particular club.

 

[Judy]

Personally I think its unreasonable to expect the draw to be done on a certain day. People do have other things to do and very often the only day they can get together might be on the Sunday.

 

[IanGerman]

And I agree with Judy!

There can be no really hard and fast line on this as much depends on the organising club, their administrative workload and the amount of help they have got to put on an event in the first place.

It's down to individual owners to CHECK if a move is possible and if it isn't to then decide whether to still run or not. Let's not forget that racing isn't compulsory, and as someone else said - Maidens don't count for points so going club racing instead to ward of any possible embarrassment!

 

[peppermint lady]

ok il try to explain this but not sure your understand what im going on about :wacko: :lol:

dad said

what if... for the opens running maidens can they not add to each weight group of the draw a slip that just says "MAIDEN"

this way it will not alter any program other than the maiden winners name to be put in on the day by us when the weights are given out :thumbsup:

this way the worse that could happen is.......the maiden winner is not booked in to run at the following open so the "MAIDEN" on the program would be a non runner.

:wacko: :wacko: if all clubs running maidens adopted the "phantom maiden" added to the draw, the problem of any dog running 2 maidens would never occur. :thumbsup:

makes perfect sense to me when dad said it, hope im putting it across so you all get what im going on about :teehee:

 

[TC]

ok il try to explain this but not sure your understand what im going on about :wacko:     :lol: dad said

what if... for the opens running maidens can they not  add to each weight group of the draw a slip that just says "MAIDEN"

this way it will not alter any program other than the maiden winners name to be put in on the day by us when the weights are given out :thumbsup:

this way the worse that could happen is.......the maiden winner is not booked in to run at the following open so the "MAIDEN" on the program would be a non runner.

:wacko:   :wacko:   if all clubs running maidens adopted the "phantom maiden" added to the draw, the problem of any dog running 2 maidens would never occur. :thumbsup:

makes perfect sense to me when dad said it, hope im putting it across so you all get what im going on about :teehee:

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Makes perfect sense to me :thumbsup:

TCx

 

[Joanna]

ok il try to explain this but not sure your understand what im going on about :wacko:     :lol: dad said

what if... for the opens running maidens can they not  add to each weight group of the draw a slip that just says "MAIDEN"

this way it will not alter any program other than the maiden winners name to be put in on the day by us when the weights are given out :thumbsup:

this way the worse that could happen is.......the maiden winner is not booked in to run at the following open so the "MAIDEN" on the program would be a non runner.

:wacko:   :wacko:   if all clubs running maidens adopted the "phantom maiden" added to the draw, the problem of any dog running 2 maidens would never occur. :thumbsup:

makes perfect sense to me when dad said it, hope im putting it across so you all get what im going on about :teehee:

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I was going to suggest the same thing Julie, but it will still need to be adopted as a policy by all clubs who run maidens and people will need to be informed of the changes. :thumbsup: