Multi Purpose Whippet

[Vicky]

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Such a thing?

Following on from another post that i didn't want to hijack.

A few of the pups i've bred have raced and been used in the field, the owners were more than pleased but those dog's would never have gained titles. Ella is racing bred through and through but her instinct to hunt is excellent, she'd probably be good at agility etc as she's quite a clever dog and always willing to please, showing obviously is a no go.

Suppose what i'm trying to say is it can't be that hard to breed a multi purpose whippet, good luck to those that do the pups will give their owners lots of enjoyment BUT surely they will never excel in more than one field? (compete at the highest level)

Please someone prove me wrong!

DEBATE

 

[quintessence]

I think this will be a very interesting topic Vicky. I've just been reading Mary Lowe's book (for the umpteenth time) and there have been whippets who have excelled at racing, showing and coursing. It will be interesting to hear the opinions of people who are able to take part in more than one discipline. I think time and money must play a part in what people are able to do, I think more people work now so have to limit their activities time-wise and of course type must play a part. I'm looking forward to this thread opening up probably because I'm so interested in the history of the breed.

Jenny

 

[Seraphina]

Yes, this is interesting. I always wondered about some of the show winning dogs I know who I suspect cannot run. Which suggests that they are NOT the correct shape. I know in France dog cannot be granted championship title unless it also fulfills the race requirement.

Looking forward other's opinions

Lida

 

[wild whippies]

My opinion? I don't think it can be done. The physical attributes required to excel in a particular fields conflict with each other. Sure you can be a jack of all trades but to be a craftsman takes particular skill, talent and genetics. E.g. Buffy my dog she can't race for toffee :- " she's done well in a few coursing heats, but it hardly makes her what I would consider a coursing dog, her breeding is from show lines and I think that would of been the area she would of done best. But she's happier yoddling at the ginpit anyday and what makes my dogs happy makes me happy.

I've heard a lot about how Laguna excelled in all areas in the past, was there dogs out there that got CC'c and WRCH's and coursing titles too? I don't mean a bloodline, I mean a particular dog?

 

[doris]

mine are muli-purpose! they have had a go at most of the disciplines mentioned here and we've had fun trying them, but they excel at the ones listed below:

they are great at house work, picking up crumbs, emptying bins and clearing work surfaces

they are interesting ice-breakers, walks can take forever by the time everyone has come over to ask if my iggies are the whippets puppies (my whippies are both boys!) :wacko:

they are wonderful bed warmers, good when you have a cold or flu, even better when its over 25 degrees and you just need to lie down for a while :- "

they are good teachers, the kids now not to leave anything of value lying around, especially when its the last packet of biscuits :lol:

above all, they are great company who have given us plenty of love, cuddles, kisses :x and entertainment and they shown the children the importance of commitment and responsibility :wub:

sorry

 

[whippynit]

This topic always puzzles me and intrigues me too! :teehee:

I would of thought though that if a dog is true to the breed standard and is 'built correctly' i.e as in for showing then by rights, physically, shouldnt they be faster???? because their conformation is right.? :b

If a dog is just bred speed to speed, with no concern for conformation and 'type' then surely you would probaly end up with a dog with a poor back end for example and then it wouldnt have the right 'physical attributes' for speed!

Hope ive worded the above so it makes sense by the way :thumbsup:

 

[*Lesley*]

mine are muli-purpose! they have had a go at most of the disciplines mentioned here and we've had fun trying them, but they excel at the ones listed below:
they are great at house work, picking up crumbs, emptying bins and clearing work surfaces 

they are interesting ice-breakers, walks can take forever by the time everyone has come over to ask if my iggies are the whippets puppies (my whippies are both boys!) :wacko:

they are wonderful bed warmers, good when you have a cold or flu, even better when its over 25 degrees and you just need to lie down for a while :- "

they are good teachers, the kids now not to leave anything of value lying around, especially when its the last packet of biscuits :lol:

above all, they are great company who have given us plenty of love, cuddles, kisses :x and entertainment and they shown the children the importance of commitment and responsibility :wub:

sorry

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I agree with all that Doris :thumbsup: your poor whippy boys must have quite a complex by now :lol:

I have no experience to make a comment and probably wouldn't anyway as I think it just leads to someones breed line of dog being slated somewhere along the line,as with the previous thread, I just think that they all will all be better at some things than others, and not always the things they were bred for and whatever that is we as the owner are proud of that and thats what's important :thumbsup:

 

[whippynit]

mine are muli-purpose! they have had a go at most of the disciplines mentioned here and we've had fun trying them, but they excel at the ones listed below:
they are great at house work, picking up crumbs, emptying bins and clearing work surfaces 

they are interesting ice-breakers, walks can take forever by the time everyone has come over to ask if my iggies are the whippets puppies (my whippies are both boys!) :wacko:

they are wonderful bed warmers, good when you have a cold or flu, even better when its over 25 degrees and you just need to lie down for a while :- "

they are good teachers, the kids now not to leave anything of value lying around, especially when its the last packet of biscuits :lol:

above all, they are great company who have given us plenty of love, cuddles, kisses :x and entertainment and they shown the children the importance of commitment and responsibility :wub:

sorry

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I agree with all that Doris :thumbsup: your poor whippy boys must have quite a complex by now :lol:

I have no experience to make a comment and probably wouldn't anyway as I think it just leads to someones breed line of dog being slated somewhere along the line,as with the previous thread, I just think that they all will all be better at some things than others, and not always the things they were bred for and whatever that is we as the owner are proud of that and thats what's important :thumbsup:

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I agree with that too....I love mine to bits whatever they are good or not good at :wub: I was just trying to stick to the topic in question and answer in accordance to that, as Vicky wanted peoples opinions! :thumbsup:

 

[wild whippies]

The debate isn't about if a whippet is multi-purpose or not, they all can be given the opportunity. Some whippets are used as therapy dogs, some are brilliant at obedience and/or agility, hey I have one who I think would win best poser anyday! 8) What Vicky is saying is are there any dogs that have gained substantial titles in different areas?

Lesley that's why she started a seperate thread

 

[Atlay]

Excellent topic, that I will be watching with interest. In my research for the kind of dog that would suit me, I have noticed quite a variety in the shape of pure-bred whippets. Some are quite sturdy looking, in comparison to others I see, and some stand at rest with a fairly arched back whereas others stand with a straight/square back (a lot more like a 'little greyhound').

I'm assuming these differences are due to the strain of the dog, as I see people refering to show, racing and coursing bloodlines as if they are 3 distinct 'sub-breeds'. From this, I would assume that 'wild whippies' is correct, and it would not be possible to create a single dog that could compete at the highest level in all 3 disciplines. They each require attributes that are contradictory...

Racing. I've only ever been to a handful of whippet races, and they were all straight line drag sprints, so take my comments with a HUGE pinch of salt, but the requirement here seems to be for high acceleration and a short term burst of pure speed. Therefore, power-to-weight seems to be the most important attribute, with looks, intelligence and, to some extent, stamina less important. I'm not saying a good racer HAS to be stupid, just that it doesn't HAVE to be a canine Einstein. I AM saying that (probably) increased stamina comes at the expense of added body weight... deeper chest mostly. If you look at nature, the best mammalian sprinter there is (the Cheetah) has terrible stamina... I think this is for a reason.

Coursing. I think the requirement here is very similar to racing, but with an increased importance on intelligence and stamina. As I indicated above, that stamina will come at the expense of some pure sprinting ability, because it will add body weight and reduce the power-to-weight ratio.

Showing. Whereas the requirements for racing and coursing are somewhat similar, it has to be true that show champions could be relatively hopeless at running, because the only requirement to win is to please the judges eye, and conform to the breed standard. Obviously, one hopes that the breed standard and judges eye are looking for the attributes that make for a good working dog, whether that 'work' is hunting or racing. From my observations, this seems to be more true of whippets than most other pedegree breeds... working lab's are very different from the show winning strains, but the variance in body form between the 3 'strains' of whippet seems much less.

Therefore, I think the answer to Vicky's question is dependant on show judges continuing to prefer dogs that are built like working dogs. Then, a successful racer/courser could also be successful in the show ring, given the right handling.

Sorry if all that was hopelessly naive, or upset anyone. I'm basing my comments on a couple weeks of intensive research into small sighthounds (lurcher and whippets), several years of prior experience with a friends greyhounds and lurchers and a handful of trips to whippet drag racing. I've only taken part because the subject of 'type' is so relevant to me at the moment, as I try to find a puppy that will match my family's needs.

Cheers,

Wayne

 

[*Lesley*]

The debate isn't about if a whippet is multi-purpose or not, they all can be given the opportunity. Some whippets are used as therapy dogs, some are brilliant at obedience and/or agility, hey I have one who I think would win best poser anyday!  8)   What Vicky is saying is are there any dogs that have gained substantial titles in different areas?
Lesley that's why she started a seperate thread 

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I agree with what your saying Jac, it's a good question but topics on here rarely keep to the question asked and too many people are too quick to bring particular dogs/breeding/people into the equasion which leads to upset, nobody wants to have negative things said about their dogs/breed lines/ability etc. do they cos we love em no matter what don't we

 

[urchin]

I've been wondering about Digit's potential abilities........apparently apart from his little deficiency in the *cough* testicular department - he grew about 2" to tall to show, but proportionally he's spot on (I don't know enough about the breed standard myself to confirm or deny, but I'll take other's word on it!)

so, if he's the right build for a whippet, just a bit big - might he do well racing? :- "

Your list made me laugh Doris and got me thinking -

Digit's special abilities include

Helping people to get up nice and early in the morning (well you wouldn't want to miss the best part of the day would you?)..........if a gentle sniff doesn't do the trick a wet nose in the ear sure does!

Making friends and influencing people - initiating conversations in the park (often ones which start out 'I'm very sorry that my dog has his nose up your skirt - he's very personable you see..............' followed by full-on whippet eyes and instant melting of hearts = firm friends for life!

and most importantly

teaching a very sad and nervous ex-racing greyhound what having fun is all about - how to tear round the park like fools, roll around on your back in choice goose-poo, fetch balls, come for a cuddle and WAG THAT TAIL LIKE IT'S GOING TO BE RATIONED IN THE MORNING!

well done Dij - where would we be without you?

 

[beaker]

I think the possibility of there being a dog that is a champion in both racing and coursing is slim as the difference between the types is so vast, this may not have been the case in the past as the differences were not as extreme, I personally try to have dogs in the middle ground (they don't suck at anything (w00t) )

my dogs race, course, lure course, show and some have even had a go at agility, they have all had success but in order to offer any sort of competion to the purists in each feild i have to concentrate on one thing at a time, for instance with Oto in order for him to get noticed in the ring i have had to add a conciderable amount of weight on him to the detriment of his racing times, his litter sister Gin clocked a more than respectable time at the 240 champs last time but would get chucked out of a show ring.Otis has had several wins at open and champ shows and although in my mind too big to race it is not unheard of for me to take him lure coursing on a saturday and showing on a sunday. alright some show people would cringe at the thought of this but to me my dogs are just enjoying life, doing what they are supposed to and not doing too badly at it.

maybe my dogs arn't world beaters but i do feel that they are at least trying to bridge an ever increasing devide in types.

sorry to waffle on o

i might just go duck for cover

 

[wild whippies]

Becka, don't you dare duck anywhere! I think the way you do a little of everything is brilliant and is good psychologically for your dogs.

Wayne I think you made some good points, good luck with your search for a whippet. :luck:

 

[beaker]

Becka, don't you dare duck anywhere! I think the way you do a little of everything is brilliant and is good psychologically for your dogs.
Wayne I think you made some good points, good luck with your search for a whippet. :luck:

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i can't spell psychologically i'd have just put "good for their heads" lol :lol:

 

[OEH]

I don't have pedigrees (yet.........), so I am probably not very qualified to comment, and I REALLY don't want to upset or annoy anyone, But.............

I don't understand why show dogs need to be so different. Surely whippets were originally bred to work and race- they certainly look as if they are designed for it. I thought that the idea of showing was to produce a perfect example of the breed. If the perfect example chosen by the showing people is not as capable of doing its job as another then surely there is something wrong with the showing standard.

I show both my dogs at lurcher shows (and one of them does rather well). The aim there seems to be to show a dog that is as fit and capable of doing its job as possible.

I really hope I haven't offended anyone, I am just very puzzled and would love it if someone could explain to me what is the reason for the different conformation of show dogs?

 

[Lolcoe]

After some extremely serious consideration, i have decided to give 'dual purpose' a go once we are ready to breed.

I have had some very good advice from people who already manage to do this, and im not expecting to have world beaters at everything overnight. If it can be done it could possibly take years and years before you manage it!

There are 2 people i have spoken to in particular, that have qualified for Crufts and also do well at racing/coursing, that is better than some dogs that specialize in one field.

It depends on how much fun you want to have with your whippet. If you race and show and have racers and show dogs you're limited to how many dogs of each you can keep, but i suppose if they do both you have twice as many (does that make sense? :wacko: )

There are some racing dogs in the show ring that look great compared to the 'usual show whippet' and theres sometime a 'sporting/ racing class' that you can enter.

There should be (or maybe there is) races for show whippets!!!

 

[whippynit]

I find this a very interesting debate, i have been looking through some of my old books and the following is parts quoted from a book. I dont wish to offend anyone at all either so these are not my words!!!............

Although they hope to maintain breed type, most racing breeders main consideration is to breed speed to speed, and their second is for size.

A glance at times recored in passports twenty years ago, shows that far from running faster, modern racing whippets are atchully SLOWER than dogs at the back end of their pedigree!

This is MAYBE because early racing dogs atchully came from show breeders who paid alot of attention to conformation.

 

[Vicky]

247 views and only 17 replies :- " that fence is gonna break!!!

I would be quite interested in names of dogs which have titles in both showing and racing.

My point is if you're breeding multi-purpose something has got to slip surely - racing speed / showing build.

Are you not better off breeding for 1 purpose and being good at that and poorish at the others rather than being average at everything? (read average as got no titles)

 

[whippynit]

247 views and only 17 replies  :- " that fence is gonna break!!!
I would be quite interested in names of dogs which have titles in both showing and racing.

My point is if you're breeding multi-purpose something has got to slip surely - racing speed / showing build.

Are you not better off breeding for 1 purpose and being good at that and poorish at the others rather than being average at everything? (read average as got no titles)

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I do agree with that Vicky, something has to slip. In my opinion, type and conformation shouldnt slip because i believe thats what makes a whippet a whippet, :- " but i respect everyone has their own opinion. )

Back to the question... i know of dogs that have done well at both, even one that had 2 ccs and raced well. but NOT a champion in both disciplines.

I dont think there is a CH and a WCRC, but id love it if someone said there was!

Can any other k9ers out there enlighten us????? :blink: