Neutering (again)

[dawn]

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Hi Everyone dare I mention why I had my girls neutered, because the breeder made me sign a declaration that we would have her neutered and we were not allowed to breed from her. If would not have been able to have her if we did not sign it and as an honest person when I sign something I have to act on it.
I also felt that I could not 100% trust that she would never excape with the seven children I had at the time, 4 of my own(before someone starts on me being neutered) and 3 foster children. However protected the garden is dogs and kiddies sometimes manage to escape. I would have hated her to have had pups and not know who the father was. BUt the jist of it all was I really didn't have a choice as we said that we would neuter her. How many whippet breeders ask the new owners to neuter is this a regulary request or just I choose the wrong breeder.

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Hi Tabz

In our puppy contracts we have a declaration that says the puppies will NOT be spayed or neutered unless for medical reasons and if every they should decide to breed from the dog or bitch we must be consulted.

We also endorse our puppies pedigrees 'not for export' and if for any reason the dog or bitch needs to be rehomed for what ever reason it comes back to us.

We believe when you breed a litter you are responsible for the well being of the pups for life and not just for the duration they are with you.

Dawn

 

[bertie]

just to make my feelings clear.

I dont object totally.

I do object to such young dogs been 'done'

 

[ILoveKettleChips]

So if this research has been undertaken as you suggest then these papers could be available upon request, this would and is the case in humans.If a customer/client asked you at your practice would you also tell them just to trust you and you have not got the time to 'set up your own beagle colony and test out your concerns over said product or procedure'?

Before I totally reject the crazy idea it would have been nice to see the clinical reasons why you hold your views.

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Most of this evidence is from teaching in vet school ... I COULD scan all my notes on the subject for you but that would mean buying a scanner ... as for actual references, now I would have to pay for unrestricted access to PubMed (it's free when you're a student) but I will try to find some links to abstracts:

Abstracts

There's a start. Took me two minutes on Google. )

more

Edited to add some more ... you get the gist, you can look for papers on anything you like. )

AGH! Just realised it doesn't link to search results - basically I put "ovariohysterectomy bitch mammary" and "ovariohysterectomy bitch pyometra" for starters. Sorry!

 

[Seraphina]

I myself have been refused a double mastectomy and hysterectamy by my consultant, even though i've just gone through a tough time medically. It was not an easy decision to come to but i just wanted rid of a timebomb in my body.They reckon that it would be far too drastic an op for a woman my age (30).

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Oh Dennise this is a tough dilema. I had breast cancer some 10 years ago, I also wish the doctors would have offered me double mastectomy as one of the options.

I know many women who had a hysterectomy and it affected them severely. Even partial (retaining ovaries) hysterectomy changed them drastically and younger they were when they had this op, more dramatic the change.

I had my tubes tied when I was in my 30's and even this supposedly simple procedure had dramatic repercussions, many women i spoke to since also had the same problems.

Why do you think so many post menopausal wo,am take HRT?

While dogs are different, I cannot believe that there is no effect on them, they just do not complain.

Lida

 

[Lolcoe]

One question about this is that in humans, problem are usually hereditary. Does the same apply in dogs? If that were the case then i could see the sense in getting a bitch spayed to prevent it.

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Anecdotally, yes, but I don't know of any research on the subject. But if you mean has anyone ever told me that the bitch I had diagnosed with mammary cancer had relatives with a similar condition, the answer would be yes, a few times.

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Well i think its about time there was some serious research into this subject. Surely some vet somewhere with too much time on their hands could get funding. I know it would take years to do, but i reckon this debate will go on and on until we get some solid evidence on the pro's and con's.

 

[dawn]

Well i think its about time there was some serious research into this subject. Surely some vet somewhere with too much time on their hands could get funding. I know it would take years to do, but i reckon this debate will go on and on until we get some solid evidence on the pro's and con's.

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You will find that not many veterinary practices wil have the resources for an extended study such as this and it is an ethical question in many respects and not a health question so commercial funding would not be readily available. The best way would be a comparison study between countries where speying is the common practice and those where speying is not commonly undertaken except for health reasons.

 

[Seraphina]

Well i think its about time there was some serious research into this subject. Surely some vet somewhere with too much time on their hands could get funding. I know it would take years to do, but i reckon this debate will go on and on until we get some solid evidence on the pro's and con's.

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You will find that not many veterinary practices wil have the resources for an extended study such as this and it is an ethical question in many respects and not a health question so commercial funding would not be readily available. The best way would be a comparison study between countries where speying is the common practice and those where speying is not commonly undertaken except for health reasons.

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The problem with this sort of study is that there can be environmental factors in incidents of cancer. To get really meaningful results you would need large number of dogs, half with relatives who have mummery tumors, and half who do not have history of tumors. These dogs would need to be fed identical diet, kept under same conditions, and observed for their lifetime.

Lida

 

[dessie]

Nobody has mentioned that spayed bitches actually do still have hormonal cycles. I have two bitches who were spayed for medical reasons (both when they were mature, one having had a litter, the other a 'professional virgin') but I know from the boys' behaviour when they would actually be having a season if they were entire. These two also have to urinate far more often that the 3 entire bitches (who seem to be able to go almost days between wees) albeit they are not actually incontinent but .......................... when they need to go, they have to go!!!

 

[ILoveKettleChips]

Nobody has mentioned that spayed bitches actually do still have hormonal cycles.  I have two bitches who were spayed for medical reasons (both when they were mature, one having had a litter, the other a 'professional virgin') but I know from the boys' behaviour when they would actually be having a season if they were entire.

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That's suggestive of incomplete ovariectomy. Bitches will still cycle if the vet fails to remove all of the ovarian tissue. This is also a risk for stump pyometra (when the stump of tissue at the ligated cervix develops infection as a result of persistent ovarian cycling. Keep an eye on them.

 

[janfiers]

(w00t) (w00t) (w00t) Now Dawn, Pedro can sing ok, don't think I'd like to turn him into a soprano, and :wub: I'm trying desperately to make the average marriage of 11 years and 3 months, cos I didn't manage it with the first one.

:- " Mind you his birthday isn't till February so if he doesn't behave himself............

 

[Seraphina]

This is a very interesting site pointing out some negatives re-spaying and castrating :

neutering

 

[~whitecross whippets~]

neutering my dogs is right for both my dogs and my family :thumbsup: