Nnwrf

[friggsy]

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vicky the drugs squad turn up at ngrc tracks quite regular and take random samples. They also do samples on specific trainers if they feel they have reason to. The main man in he south east is Frank Melville I dont know how far afield he goes. Hope that helps Ray.

 

[weathergirls]

While I appreciate the obtaining of urine samples may have a bigger approval if done track side, I personally think it would be better practice to have 3 persons present, them being, the dog owner, a member of the racing organisation (to confirm the identity of the dog) and the veterinary nurse. By doing this away from the track, the dog is less vulnerable to distractions (e.g. racing) and if anyone has dogs like mine, they'll hold their bladders till they find grass /  hedgerows /trees etc. :- "
I think it would be useful for owners and organisers if a protocol was drawn up and maybe some advice given to racers on what responsibilities they should have. E.g. checking bar code correlation, what is worth documenting in the comments section of the form etc. This is not so much to keep check on the individuals involved in obtaining urine samples but more to ensure that everyone is in agreement and bear responsibility jointly.

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dogs are taken away from trackside along with attending vet nurse

all bar code and bag tag info is checked with owners they sign along with attending vet nurse and are always asked if they are satisfied with the way the tet has been carried out before they sign

comments section on form all owners are asked if their dog is on any medication or season suppressant which would be noted in this section

 

[weathergirls]

Do the NGRC have the same vets all the time taking the samples?
I think the veterinary nurse should know before coming to the track what is expected of them and the guidelines the HFL give for obtaining samples, just the same as us racers need to know what's expected of us.  Once you've had your dog tested you know how to go about it but i know when Jude was first tested i didn't have a clue what to do or expect.  As Jacqui posted it wouldn't be a bad move if drug testing is to continue with the NNWRF & start again with the BWRA for racers to know of the guidelines before their dogs get pulled out, i feel this would also speed up the process.

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all owners are told they will be notified as soon as the results come back and all have been

 

[DavidH]

As far as I have found out Chris there has not been a single dog that has failed a drug test since the NNWRF started doing them and as you say it does beg the questions1) Is there a drug problem that warrents drug testing as no one appears to have supplied a positive sample?

2) If there is a drug problem, given that there has been no positive results how effective is the drug testing?

As I have said before this is a hobby and in my opinion the only thing drug testing does do is cause bad feeling so why have it?

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the answer to the bottom question is because some people cheat and drug there dogs!!

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sad but true,some people will try anything to win. its a hobby to us,to run your dogs win or loose as long as they have a good race and come off ok. socialize with people of the same interest.( i like the crack :thumbsup: ) the training i love trying to keep them on top form :sweating: :sweating: our roddy is so aggressive when he races if the lure brakes he has to be first on it what ever, then 6 weeks off :rant: but that is racing. firstly my dogs are pets :thumbsup: the racing bit comes after that.

 

[weathergirls]

TBH, while I agree cross-infection control should be maintained, it should be noted that when it comes to urine and biochemistry you can't really compromise a test through contamination. What the body takes in is processed and changed, for example if you had cocaine on your hands and contaminated the urine sample, HFL would know it was contaminated and not injested because  biochemically the substance changes as it is processed by the body and furthermore there would be the reactive biochemistry present within the urine (in this case cocaine metabolites) it should also be noted that reactive changes are individual to the body as well.So while it is a concern if you've either knowingly or unknowingly contaminated your hands with a substance, HFL would be able to determine if the substance passed through your dog or not.

Personally, I would of allowed the test through but put in the comments section there was suspect contamination and who or what this contamination was.

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I am quite sure the test would have been okay BUT I wasn't going to risk putting anyone through a barrage of accusations from others also in the likelyhood of possible contamination the test would have had to automatically go through to the second stage of testing at a cost of around £1300 to determine this

 

[DavidH]

vicky the drugs squad turn up at ngrc tracks quite regular and take random samples.  They also do samples on specific trainers if they feel they have reason to. The main man in he south east is Frank Melville I dont know how far afield he goes. Hope that helps Ray.

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maybe testing should be at random meeting,and on dogs that have found a lot of form. not just at the champs???????if the committee suspect a trainer then test them any meeting.as folks could gear dogs up and stop it at the champs.

but if random tests :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

you might do 1 test a year or 10 depends on what looks bottled up :thumbsup:

 

[weathergirls]

Just a query about the effectiveness of drug testing in whippet racing............how many drug tests have been carried out, how many came back positive, negative, not able to be tested etc within the boundaries that are now set up, with tolerance levels set, rather than zero tolerance.
Have tried to find threads back on here that might shed some light on numbers etc, but it's difficult to seperate it out. I'm just curious about the effectiveness of it in stopping people using drugs on their dogs, as I'm sure it still happens, and unless the testing is random, initiated and controlled by the vet perhaps, maybe it has no chance of being effective in eradicating those who use stuff. And is therfore a waste of time, effort and money.

chris

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I am glad to say all dogs tested to date with the NNWRF have passed

drug testing as voted in by the NNWRF menbers was to take 5 samples at 2 events per year sending 3 out of each 5 selected by the vet nurse for testing

this was costed for in 2004 taking into consideration the possibility of a sample proving positive which would automatically be put through the 2nd stage screening by HFL the amount to cover the teting was costed at £14-85p per member per year in the members agreed to the £10 per year for the drug testing which is kept seperate from the memberships

 

[milly]

I definately did not have gloves at Devon 2006 with Pennysworth.

I could be mistaken at Swallownest,if so I apologise.

 

[DavidH]

Because I haven't had a dog tested can someone who has,run through the actual testing proceedure please?

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get a faster dog couldnt resist,lol lol :thumbsup: still lol then you might get tet (w00t)

 

[weathergirls]

As far as I have found out Chris there has not been a single dog that has failed a drug test since the NNWRF started doing them and as you say it does beg the questions1) Is there a drug problem that warrents drug testing as no one appears to have supplied a positive sample?

2) If there is a drug problem, given that there has been no positive results how effective is the drug testing?

As I have said before this is a hobby and in my opinion the only thing drug testing does do is cause bad feeling so why have it?

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who knows if there is a drug problem or not

maybe there have been no positive results because there is drug testing in place

we have it because the majority of the members voted to have it

 

[weathergirls]

I definately did not have gloves at Devon 2006 with Pennysworth.I could be mistaken at Swallownest,if so I apologise.

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yet another thing you were mistaken on you were issued with gloves your responsibility to wear them no one elses

 

[weathergirls]

END OF DISCUSSION ON HERE AS FAR AS THE NNWRF COMMITTEE ARE CONCERNED

ANY FURTHER GENUINE QUESTIONS PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ASK ME IN PERSON AT NEXT MEETING

 

[Vicky]

Had a message from someone who runs NGRC that it is usually the paddock steward that accompanies the owner/trainer and the dog to obtain the sample.

Just found this on NGRC website, might be of interest to someone.

i The Local Stewards or the licensed Veterinary Surgeon or the NGRC Stipendiary Steward shall have power at any time to order any examination of and/or test and the taking of samples for test and/or analysis from, any Greyhound which is due to take part in or has taken part in any Trial or Race at, or which is in any Licensed Kennels. Samples shall be taken only when so ordered.

 

ii The Local Stewards shall have power to order that a Greyhound be kept under surveillance for as long as necessary for such examination and/or test to be made and/or sample to be obtained. The taking of any sample of vomit or urine or blood or other body fluid or substance from any Greyhound shall be in the presence of the Owner and/or Trainer and/or Kennelhand, if present at the Racecourse or Kennels where such sample is to be taken, otherwise in the presence of a Local Steward. All samples shall be kept secure by a person appointed by the Local Stewards. No other samples from the Greyhound concerned may be taken at that time except as authorised nor shall samples be divided for any purpose. Any sample taken in connection with an Inquiry shall be dispatched to such analyst as the NGRC Stewards may direct.

 

The result of any test or analysis of any sample taken from a Greyhound shall be made available to the Local Stewards, the NGRC Stewards, and the Owner, Trainer and Veterinary Surgeon concerned.

 

A Greyhound shall be Disqualified from a Race or Competition at the stage of the Race or Competition at which a sample was taken and subsequently found positive. Rule 95 applies.

 

iii The current code of practice as appended to these Rules shall be applied to the sampling procedure when urine samples are to be sent for analysis to the designated laboratory approved by the NGRC.

 

iv In the case of sudden death of a Greyhound at a NGRC Racecourse, a post mortem examination shall be arranged in accordance with the NGRC policy as issued to all Racecourses.

 

[milly]

I definately did not have gloves at Devon 2006 with Pennysworth.I could be mistaken at Swallownest,if so I apologise.

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yet another thing you were mistaken on you were issued with gloves your responsibility to wear them no one elses

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The vet nurse should take full responsibilty from the onset of the drug test, in other words they should be taking the urine sample, not the owner of the dog.

Also nobody should know when a drug test is being done

 

[debbie]

I definately did not have gloves at Devon 2006 with Pennysworth.I could be mistaken at Swallownest,if so I apologise.

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yet another thing you were mistaken on you were issued with gloves your responsibility to wear them no one elses

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The vet nurse should take full responsibilty from the onset of the drug test, in other words they should be taking the urine sample, not the owner of the dog.

Also nobody should know when a drug test is being done

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the last time i got tested i had full faith in the tester, ( a vet ) my dog wet straight into a bowl type thing which had a funnel which went straight into the bottle, and then the vet sealed the bottle and i signed the label over the seal, in my opinion this was the correct way,

 

[milly]

I definately did not have gloves at Devon 2006 with Pennysworth.I could be mistaken at Swallownest,if so I apologise.

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yet another thing you were mistaken on you were issued with gloves your responsibility to wear them no one elses

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​

The vet nurse should take full responsibilty from the onset of the drug test, in other words they should be taking the urine sample, not the owner of the dog.

Also nobody should know when a drug test is being done

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the last time i got tested i had full faith in the tester, ( a vet ) my dog wet straight into a bowl type thing which had a funnel which went straight into the bottle, and then the vet sealed the bottle and i signed the label over the seal, in my opinion this was the correct way,

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:thumbsup:

 

[halloween]

I don't really want to get into this argument but the reason for drug testing originated in the 80s. Certain dogs were being beaten regularly by others, found a stack of speed at major events.

This new found form was caused by substances that were not naturally in the dogs.

Drug testing was voted in by the members of each organisation to eliminate these cheats. The testing must have worked because since introducing testing the cheats have disappeared.

I say carry on testing, at least my mind is at rest that i will be running with clean dogs and if i get beat it will be a better dog that wins,not a drug enhanced one.

 

[Karen-Coral]

vicky the drugs squad turn up at ngrc tracks quite regular and take random samples.  They also do samples on specific trainers if they feel they have reason to. The main man in he south east is Frank Melville I dont know how far afield he goes. Hope that helps Ray.

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maybe testing should be at random meeting,and on dogs that have found a lot of form. not just at the champs???????if the committee suspect a trainer then test them any meeting.as folks could gear dogs up and stop it at the champs.

but if random tests :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

you might do 1 test a year or 10 depends on what looks bottled up :thumbsup:

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Thats definately not the way forward and could only serve to cause more upset and nasty comments

-----we have been there before ---

when without anything other than knowing a little bit more than others---- about getting a dog ready and putting it in practice ---seeing the results---time and time again ---

perfectly inocent owners have been driven out of the sport mainly through jealousy and ignorance--

and others not speaking up just because they were frightened it would be them next---

witch hunt !!!!is what happens-

the only fair and proper way to do testing is for a vet to be paid a retainer and given a list of meetings where testing is prefered--then it should be left to him when /where /who/ no one else should know at all----- no committee /no one.

he should just arrive un-announced with the testing kits pick the dogs he thinks need testing and get the sample required ---who ever they belong to---and i have always said this is the only way to do it correctly--

if all winners was his choice to provide samples so be it --

then he could pick ones from all of them

no need for any other person to be told who was ---to be tested---

until results are back then the actual test paper should be on view for all to see

at next meeting --

my views on testing only--I dont want any arguments over it--

constructive i think---you may think otherwise as is your right --thankyou---

Steve

 

[weathergirls]

vicky the drugs squad turn up at ngrc tracks quite regular and take random samples.  They also do samples on specific trainers if they feel they have reason to. The main man in he south east is Frank Melville I dont know how far afield he goes. Hope that helps Ray.

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maybe testing should be at random meeting,and on dogs that have found a lot of form. not just at the champs???????if the committee suspect a trainer then test them any meeting.as folks could gear dogs up and stop it at the champs.

but if random tests :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

you might do 1 test a year or 10 depends on what looks bottled up :thumbsup:

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Thats definately not the way forward and could only serve to cause more upset and nasty comments

-----we have been there before ---

when without anything other than knowing a little bit more than others---- about getting a dog ready and putting it in practice ---seeing the results---time and time again ---

perfectly inocent owners have been driven out of the sport mainly through jealousy and ignorance--

and others not speaking up just because they were frightened it would be them next---

witch hunt !!!!is what happens-

the only fair and proper way to do testing is for a vet to be paid a retainer and given a list of meetings where testing is prefered--then it should be left to him when /where /who/ no one else should know at all----- no committee /no one.

he should just arrive un-announced with the testing kits pick the dogs he thinks need testing and get the sample required ---who ever they belong to---and i have always said this is the only way to do it correctly--

if all winners was his choice to provide samples so be it --

then he could pick ones from all of them

no need for any other person to be told who was ---to be tested---

until results are back then the actual test paper should be on view for all to see

at next meeting --

my views on testing only--I dont want any arguments over it--

constructive i think---you may think otherwise as is your right --thankyou---

Steve

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Great suggestion Steve, if only it were that easy really do wish it could be done that way but taking into account the cost of the vet alone also our meetings being outside their normal working hours i.e. Sundays and bank holidays plus a retainer fee also what area would we retain a vet as we travel all over the country, it just wouldn't be affordable in whippet racing,

people are struggling in todays economic climate, the cost of the tests alone have increased since we did a costing on themin 2004 from £83 to £125 per sample one of the reasons why I said at the meeting at Highgate we need to review the whole issue with the members as an increase is inevitable if it is to continue

It is much too important and serious in issue to be banded about on here

We are in the process of reveiwing the costs and will be reporting back to all NNWRF members and they will decide on the outcome

 

[milly]

vicky the drugs squad turn up at ngrc tracks quite regular and take random samples.  They also do samples on specific trainers if they feel they have reason to. The main man in he south east is Frank Melville I dont know how far afield he goes. Hope that helps Ray.

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​

maybe testing should be at random meeting,and on dogs that have found a lot of form. not just at the champs???????if the committee suspect a trainer then test them any meeting.as folks could gear dogs up and stop it at the champs.

but if random tests :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

you might do 1 test a year or 10 depends on what looks bottled up :thumbsup:

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​

Thats definately not the way forward and could only serve to cause more upset and nasty comments

-----we have been there before ---

when without anything other than knowing a little bit more than others---- about getting a dog ready and putting it in practice ---seeing the results---time and time again ---

perfectly inocent owners have been driven out of the sport mainly through jealousy and ignorance--

and others not speaking up just because they were frightened it would be them next---

witch hunt !!!!is what happens-

the only fair and proper way to do testing is for a vet to be paid a retainer and given a list of meetings where testing is prefered--then it should be left to him when /where /who/ no one else should know at all----- no committee /no one.

he should just arrive un-announced with the testing kits pick the dogs he thinks need testing and get the sample required ---who ever they belong to---and i have always said this is the only way to do it correctly--

if all winners was his choice to provide samples so be it --

then he could pick ones from all of them

no need for any other person to be told who was ---to be tested---

until results are back then the actual test paper should be on view for all to see

at next meeting --

my views on testing only--I dont want any arguments over it--

constructive i think---you may think otherwise as is your right --thankyou---

Steve

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My thoughts to Steve, but you put it over alot better than me :thumbsup: