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[rodders]

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This is a really good topic and as far as those of us who have not had any experience with testing the input from more experienced folk is ( at least in my case) really appreciated :thumbsup: Agree with Steve on the way it should be done :thumbsup: but also understand the financial implications for members as stated by Linda.It would proberbly work out cheaper to retain the use of Vet nurses rather than Vets,and maybe different ones could be used to cover different parts of the country.A Vet could have the numbers of the different nurses and a list of events so that the Vet could randomly pick the events for the nurses to turn up at(hope this makes sense :lol: )JMO

 

[rob67]

vicky the drugs squad turn up at ngrc tracks quite regular and take random samples.  They also do samples on specific trainers if they feel they have reason to. The main man in he south east is Frank Melville I dont know how far afield he goes. Hope that helps Ray.

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maybe testing should be at random meeting,and on dogs that have found a lot of form. not just at the champs???????if the committee suspect a trainer then test them any meeting.as folks could gear dogs up and stop it at the champs.

but if random tests :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

you might do 1 test a year or 10 depends on what looks bottled up :thumbsup:

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Thats definately not the way forward and could only serve to cause more upset and nasty comments

-----we have been there before ---

when without anything other than knowing a little bit more than others---- about getting a dog ready and putting it in practice ---seeing the results---time and time again ---

perfectly inocent owners have been driven out of the sport mainly through jealousy and ignorance--

and others not speaking up just because they were frightened it would be them next---

witch hunt !!!!is what happens-

the only fair and proper way to do testing is for a vet to be paid a retainer and given a list of meetings where testing is prefered--then it should be left to him when /where /who/ no one else should know at all----- no committee /no one.

he should just arrive un-announced with the testing kits pick the dogs he thinks need testing and get the sample required ---who ever they belong to---and i have always said this is the only way to do it correctly--

if all winners was his choice to provide samples so be it --

then he could pick ones from all of them

no need for any other person to be told who was ---to be tested---

until results are back then the actual test paper should be on view for all to see

at next meeting --

my views on testing only--I dont want any arguments over it--

constructive i think---you may think otherwise as is your right --thankyou---

Steve

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I think you are spot on steve :thumbsup:

chris

 

[rob67]

vicky the drugs squad turn up at ngrc tracks quite regular and take random samples.  They also do samples on specific trainers if they feel they have reason to. The main man in he south east is Frank Melville I dont know how far afield he goes. Hope that helps Ray.

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​

maybe testing should be at random meeting,and on dogs that have found a lot of form. not just at the champs???????if the committee suspect a trainer then test them any meeting.as folks could gear dogs up and stop it at the champs.

but if random tests :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

you might do 1 test a year or 10 depends on what looks bottled up :thumbsup:

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​

Thats definately not the way forward and could only serve to cause more upset and nasty comments

-----we have been there before ---

when without anything other than knowing a little bit more than others---- about getting a dog ready and putting it in practice ---seeing the results---time and time again ---

perfectly inocent owners have been driven out of the sport mainly through jealousy and ignorance--

and others not speaking up just because they were frightened it would be them next---

witch hunt !!!!is what happens-

the only fair and proper way to do testing is for a vet to be paid a retainer and given a list of meetings where testing is prefered--then it should be left to him when /where /who/ no one else should know at all----- no committee /no one.

he should just arrive un-announced with the testing kits pick the dogs he thinks need testing and get the sample required ---who ever they belong to---and i have always said this is the only way to do it correctly--

if all winners was his choice to provide samples so be it --

then he could pick ones from all of them

no need for any other person to be told who was ---to be tested---

until results are back then the actual test paper should be on view for all to see

at next meeting --

my views on testing only--I dont want any arguments over it--

constructive i think---you may think otherwise as is your right --thankyou---

Steve

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Great suggestion Steve, if only it were that easy really do wish it could be done that way but taking into account the cost of the vet alone also our meetings being outside their normal working hours i.e. Sundays and bank holidays plus a retainer fee also what area would we retain a vet as we travel all over the country, it just wouldn't be affordable in whippet racing,

people are struggling in todays economic climate, the cost of the tests alone have increased since we did a costing on themin 2004 from £83 to £125 per sample one of the reasons why I said at the meeting at Highgate we need to review the whole issue with the members as an increase is inevitable if it is to continue

It is much too important and serious in issue to be banded about on here

We are in the process of reveiwing the costs and will be reporting back to all NNWRF members and they will decide on the outcome

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I think it's a shame linda that you consider the comments on here to be "banded about" Perhaps peoples comments reflect the fact that everyone sees it as important and a serious issue. People using drugs in the sport allegedly still occurs, so if someone proposes such a system as Steve suggests, and others, then maybe accurate up to date costings can be determined. I'm curious as to why this should cost so much more money. And please nop-one say it's common sense cos it's not. :thumbsup:

chris

 

[DavidH]

vicky the drugs squad turn up at ngrc tracks quite regular and take random samples.  They also do samples on specific trainers if they feel they have reason to. The main man in he south east is Frank Melville I dont know how far afield he goes. Hope that helps Ray.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

maybe testing should be at random meeting,and on dogs that have found a lot of form. not just at the champs???????if the committee suspect a trainer then test them any meeting.as folks could gear dogs up and stop it at the champs.

but if random tests :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

you might do 1 test a year or 10 depends on what looks bottled up :thumbsup:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

Thats definately not the way forward and could only serve to cause more upset and nasty comments

-----we have been there before ---

when without anything other than knowing a little bit more than others---- about getting a dog ready and putting it in practice ---seeing the results---time and time again ---

perfectly inocent owners have been driven out of the sport mainly through jealousy and ignorance--

and others not speaking up just because they were frightened it would be them next---

witch hunt !!!!is what happens-

the only fair and proper way to do testing is for a vet to be paid a retainer and given a list of meetings where testing is prefered--then it should be left to him when /where /who/ no one else should know at all----- no committee /no one.

he should just arrive un-announced with the testing kits pick the dogs he thinks need testing and get the sample required ---who ever they belong to---and i have always said this is the only way to do it correctly--

if all winners was his choice to provide samples so be it --

then he could pick ones from all of them

no need for any other person to be told who was ---to be tested---

until results are back then the actual test paper should be on view for all to see

at next meeting --

my views on testing only--I dont want any arguments over it--

constructive i think---you may think otherwise as is your right --thankyou---

Steve

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My thoughts to Steve, but you put it over alot better than me :thumbsup:

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one point how will he know what to test if he is not in the racing,go for open winners?????????

 

[Paws123]

Okay didn't want to post on k9 anymore...but feel i needed to in this topic...ONE OFF hopefully give you all something to think about

All aspects for drug testing has to be thought through fully before any of our organizations , start to deal with a testing program ...also these will have to be revived every one or two years... as i have said before new designer drugs are made every day in the sports industry , where millions of pounds are spent buying, selling and making of them ...especially in back street labs ...you can purchase any thing now on the Internet ... i will add if people stoop that low as to given there dogs drugs then a) they don't think that much about the pets ...b) your dogs racing careers wouldn't last long or possible its life cut short as most drugs have horrible side effects c) YOU ARE NOT JUST CHEATING YOURSELVES BUT YOUR RACING FRIENDS TOO..Which can be said the same as falsifying breeding and dates of birth , but thats another issue

Any way back to things i think needs consideration and taken into account first regarding Defra RSPAC and Welfare groups

1) The cost ... at present £10 off each membership goes to wards NNWRF testing , realistically this only allows us to do a small amount of tests through out the year at the basic test...(take into consideration there are three levels off test think there bronze , silver and gold) also that Linda and a independent went along to HFL so she could discuss with them most whippet live in doors as part of a family ..so they may pick up food or liquids unlike our UK racing greyhounds.

The cost of a vet or vet nurse depending on where they live how long they will be needed and post and packaging prices ... also how hard it is to find a vet or nurse will to do the job at a reasonable price .

Testing kits are quite expensive too think they come in a box of 25 ...but Linda can say better

2) If a dog gave a test and something out the norm was found in it , HFL would more than likely pass it over to Defra... Both there labs are together (Please note this is where my next concerns come in force)

Defra work along side the RSPCA which has major concerns about animal welfare issues relating to the racing greyhound industry...now our problems start and the possibility of a change in none ped racing will no doubt take place

3) Governmental changes which will be enforced by both Defra and RSPCA on NNWRF and BWRA will be :

Breeding and Registration : Tackle over breeding; better enforcement of current breeders ...who, where and why a litter is breed - legislation Micro chipping should be considered as a method of identification; registration fee increased with proportion returned for 'satisfactory' retirement provision

Registration of all dogs , centralized database to track dogs

Racing and Trialling: Welfare groups should be allowed access to tracks...Compulsory veterinary attendance at all racing or trialling should be regulated - Each dog should be examined prior to racing or trialling, with unfit dogs withdrawn ( can we afford a vet at each meeting ...can see the membership increasing by the £££ i more i add taken off the latest update i received )

Kenneling and Management: dogs must be able to stand up/turn around and lie down naturally when being transported

Standards regarding provision of water, food, ventilation during transport should be introduced ... bang goes our racers that only have a car and double up dogs for traveling ...most important i think our camping events will be affected

Just my Opinion on how our sport could well be affected in the near future if we insist on pushing for drug testing , as i have stated rules and regulations are changed by the government bill each year and the way Welfare groups are working now in the greyhound racing ...think some people should be thinking long and hard about there replies ...can i also add the NNWRF Representative had a discloser to sign with HFL before we started testing ...this is one of the main reasons Linda was uncomfortable sending a test off that had been handled without protective gloves worn ...just going to leave you with this little thought

ARE WE A PROFESSIONAL SPORT OR JUST IN IT FOR A BIT OF FAMILY FUN

 

[gabbitas31]

Can someone please put up a copy of the form you need to fill out, if you are asked for a drug test, I'm a bit concerned about any tablets my dogs might be on from the vets, would this be classed as illegal drugs,? or does the form ask for any medication that was prescribed by a vet.?

I'm sure I'm not the only one who hasn't seen one of these. :thumbsup: Di.

 

[weathergirls]

Can someone please put up a copy of the form you need to fill out, if you are asked for a drug test, I'm a bit concerned about any tablets my dogs might be on from the vets,  would this be classed as illegal drugs,? or does the form ask for any medication that was prescribed by a vet.?
I'm sure I'm not the only one who hasn't seen one of these. :thumbsup: Di.

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if your dog is on medication by a vet it most probably shouldn't be racing your vet should also be able to advise you on what clearance time is reccommended

 

[tinarpoole]

VERY CONSTRUCTIVE AND INTERESTING POST DENISE AND WHIPPETS ALLIED WITH GREYHOUND RACING.I CAN CONFIRM THAT MANY OF THESE PROFESSIONAL RULES COULD AND WOULD BE INTRODUCED AND WHO WANTS THAT.WE ARE A SPORT AND OUR DOGS ARE PETS.WHEN I RETURNED TO THE SPORT I FOUND PRIZE MONEY WAS THE SAME AS 25 YEARS AGO I THOUGHT SPONSORSHIP WAS THE ANSWER SO THAT PETROL MONEY ETC COULD BE COVERED.BUT LES WINDLE LAUGHED AND EXPLAINED THAT WHIPPETEERS WOULDNT TRAVEL AND IN FACT DIDNT CARE ABOUT PRIZE MONEY HE WAS RIGHT.IT MUST ALSO BE MENTIONED THAT THE MAJORITY OF NGRC DRUG TESTING TAKES PLACE WHEN DOGS FIND OVER 60 TO 80 SPOTS FROM THERE BEST PERFORMACE OR THEY LOSE A SIMILAR AMOUNT IN GETTING BEATEN AND ARE CONSIDERED SOUND BY THE VET.I THINK THERE IS A PLACE IN OUR SPORT FOR SOME SORT OF DRUG TESTING BUT WHERE DOES IT START AND STOP.THE SUPREME CHAMPIONS AT OUR 4 MAJOR CHAMPIONSHIPS SHOULD BE AUTOMATICALLY TESTED.THIS IS TO SAFEGUARD THESE GREAT PERFORMERS REPUTATIONS CANNOT BE SULLIED BY IDIOTS SPREADING MALICIOUS GOSSIP MY OPINION HOPPE I DONT GET MODERATED HA HA

 

[gabbitas31]

Can someone please put up a copy of the form you need to fill out, if you are asked for a drug test, I'm a bit concerned about any tablets my dogs might be on from the vets,  would this be classed as illegal drugs,? or does the form ask for any medication that was prescribed by a vet.?
I'm sure I'm not the only one who hasn't seen one of these. :thumbsup: Di.

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if your dog is on medication by a vet it most probably shouldn't be racing your vet should also be able to advise you on what clearance time is reccommended

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So what your saying is that my dog should not be on anything, not even a travel sickness tablet, and if anyone thinks i run my dogs when they are ill can think again, unlike some on her, i race my dogs because THEY love it, they are my life and my PETS first., I'm not a trophy hunter and deffo not in it for the money, I just like to take part and if my dog wins it' a bonus, but i can see some people on here take it very seriously, :- " Had my say, off to take my four out for the third time today. :thumbsup: Di

 

[rob67]

VERY CONSTRUCTIVE AND INTERESTING POST DENISE AND WHIPPETS ALLIED WITH GREYHOUND RACING.I CAN CONFIRM THAT MANY OF THESE PROFESSIONAL RULES COULD AND WOULD BE INTRODUCED AND WHO WANTS THAT.WE ARE A SPORT AND OUR DOGS ARE PETS.WHEN I RETURNED TO THE SPORT I FOUND PRIZE MONEY WAS THE SAME AS 25 YEARS AGO I THOUGHT SPONSORSHIP WAS THE ANSWER SO THAT PETROL MONEY ETC COULD BE COVERED.BUT LES WINDLE LAUGHED AND EXPLAINED THAT WHIPPETEERS WOULDNT TRAVEL AND IN FACT DIDNT CARE ABOUT PRIZE MONEY HE WAS RIGHT.IT MUST ALSO BE MENTIONED THAT THE MAJORITY OF NGRC DRUG TESTING TAKES PLACE WHEN DOGS FIND OVER 60 TO 80 SPOTS FROM THERE BEST PERFORMACE OR THEY LOSE A SIMILAR AMOUNT IN GETTING BEATEN AND ARE CONSIDERED SOUND BY THE VET.I THINK THERE IS A PLACE IN OUR SPORT FOR SOME SORT OF DRUG TESTING BUT WHERE DOES IT START AND STOP.THE SUPREME CHAMPIONS AT OUR 4 MAJOR CHAMPIONSHIPS SHOULD BE AUTOMATICALLY TESTED.THIS IS TO SAFEGUARD THESE GREAT PERFORMERS REPUTATIONS CANNOT BE SULLIED BY IDIOTS SPREADING MALICIOUS GOSSIP MY OPINION HOPPE I DONT GET MODERATED HA HA

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Think it's a good point that supreme champions should be tested rob as it does (or so you would hope) indicate a 'true win'. My problem is, when do you decide that malicious gossip has any truth to it or not, and who indeed does decide that. Having been on the receiving end of suggestions that we used drugs on our dogs, having roxy drug tested at the champs made no difference, the comments continued.

I dont think drug testing stops anything, there always will be conversations about people using drugs on their dogs, because I believe there are such people. I'm not accusing anyone, but just accepting it as a fact.............Unless drug testing is controlled by an outside agency and in no way contaminated by anyone or anything, then it is useless. If that were to be the case then denise's points about the future of whippet racing would also be very real.

I would rather see an end to it, with fees being reduced.

chris

 

[sharon whincop]

Can someone please put up a copy of the form you need to fill out, if you are asked for a drug test, I'm a bit concerned about any tablets my dogs might be on from the vets,  would this be classed as illegal drugs,? or does the form ask for any medication that was prescribed by a vet.?
I'm sure I'm not the only one who hasn't seen one of these. :thumbsup: Di.

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if your dog is on medication by a vet it most probably shouldn't be racing your vet should also be able to advise you on what clearance time is reccommended

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What if the vet says its ok to run the dogs on certain medication that the dog needs ie. Dogs with low thyroid. can these dogs still run or just not give them medication they need in case they get tested. Even if the vet can supply a letter stating the dog needs medication not to enhance but to function.

 

[jasper.]

fu--s sa-e, i think i might take up fishing... :wacko:

 

[tinarpoole]

CHRIS YOU HAVE THE SATISFACTION OF KNOWING WHEN FOXY ROXY WON SUPREMEAND MAY I SAY IT WAS NO SUPRISE AS SHE WAS BEATING EVERY THING.THAT YOUR NEGATIVE TEST PROVED IRREFUTABLY THAT SHE WAS THE BEST DOG ON THE DAY AND A GREAT CHAMPION.UNFORTUNATELY YOU WONT STOP BAD LOSERS BEING JEALOUS ABOUT YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS,BUT YOU HAVE THE PROOF SHE RAN ON MERIT.IF I WAS EVER LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE ANOTHER SUPREME IN THE CURRENT CLIMATE I WOULD INSIST ON BEING TESTED OR HAVE ONE DONE PRIVATELY.

 

[JOHNG]

fu--s sa-e,  i think i might take up fishing... :wacko:

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nice one maurice :lol: :lol: i have :thumbsup:

 

[friggsy]

CHRIS YOU HAVE THE SATISFACTION OF KNOWING WHEN FOXY ROXY WON SUPREMEAND MAY I SAY IT WAS NO SUPRISE AS SHE WAS BEATING EVERY THING.THAT YOUR NEGATIVE TEST PROVED IRREFUTABLY THAT SHE WAS THE BEST DOG ON THE DAY AND A GREAT CHAMPION.UNFORTUNATELY YOU WONT STOP BAD LOSERS BEING JEALOUS ABOUT YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS,BUT YOU HAVE THE PROOF SHE RAN ON MERIT.IF I WAS EVER LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE ANOTHER SUPREME IN THE CURRENT CLIMATE I WOULD INSIST ON BEING TESTED OR HAVE ONE DONE PRIVATELY.

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so would i well said robbie

 

[gabbitas31]

fu--s sa-e,  i think i might take up fishing... :wacko:

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(w00t) Been there, done that all my life having come from a farming and then fishing family, thought I'd try dogs for the rest of my life. :lol: Diane

 

[wild whippies]

dogs are taken away from trackside along with attending vet nurse all bar code and bag tag info is checked with owners they sign along with attending vet nurse and are always asked if they are satisfied with the way the tet has been carried out before they sign

comments section on form all owners are asked if their dog is on any medication or season suppressant which would be noted in this section

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I thought that tests were being obtained in the weigh-in area at this years champs, hence my comment. I was also told that obtaining them in this manner gained the approval of fellow racers, something which I felt wasn't a neccesity and probably more of a hinderance in obtaining a sample. As you have stated they was obtained away from the trackside, I presume I was observing those concerned commuting from / to the weigh in area to complete relevant paperwork.

With regards to the comments section, is the use of an embrocation appropiate e.g. Trainers Choice?

 

[gabbitas31]

Can someone please put up a copy of the form you need to fill out, if you are asked for a drug test, I'm a bit concerned about any tablets my dogs might be on from the vets,  would this be classed as illegal drugs,? or does the form ask for any medication that was prescribed by a vet.?
I'm sure I'm not the only one who hasn't seen one of these. :thumbsup: Di.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

​

if your dog is on medication by a vet it most probably shouldn't be racing your vet should also be able to advise you on what clearance time is reccommended

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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What if the vet says its ok to run the dogs on certain medication that the dog needs ie. Dogs with low thyroid. can these dogs still run or just not give them medication they need in case they get tested. Even if the vet can supply a letter stating the dog needs medication not to enhance but to function.

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I'm glad Sharon I'm not the only one who is trying to get a sensibly reply :teehee: What you have asked is on the same lines as what i am trying to find out. :lol: none of mine are on any type of medication but they might be one day on the approach to a final or championship( if I'm that lucky) :lol: :thumbsup: Di

 

[Paws123]

Linda and Di aways sorted the drug testing out since the NNWRF started testing none of the rest of the committee was aware of when , can i just add i had no interest in knowing either as long as it was done correctly ...ive had dogs tested over the years with other organizations ...and trusted them

Last year when i took over as treasurer i had to be told for financial reasons , payment for vet etc

So i can let you know how the pass 3 drug testing of dogs were choose while i have been involved, i have also over seen dogs tested to make sure they were the right dogs been tested ...hope this answers a few questions

2007 bend champs James lure driver was asked as we thought he was an independent ..he said test the 2 l/w 2 h/w finalists which we did -Scotland 2008 Vicky put winners in a bag and got people to pick the out - 2008 bend champs again James picked numbers out for classes which had been numbered, a independent NNWRF member was present ,this was done before run off just after classes where won ... i suggested Bramble been tested.. as Chris has said you allows get the rumor's doing there rounds, but this has been like it since i can remember , we had it with Blue Goblin on quite a few occasion's and a very good dog person (Steve Batson) once said to us take it as a complement at least you know you have a good dog.

Totally agree with jac's previous post

I think it would be useful for owners and organizers if a protocol was drawn up and maybe some advice given to racers on what responsibilities they should have. E.g. checking bar code correlation, what is worth documenting in the comments section of the form etc. This is not so much to keep check on the individuals involved in obtaining urine samples but more to ensure that everyone is in agreement and bear responsibility jointly.

Think this is a must it can be a worrying experience for some the first time you may have one of your dogs tested

Just going to say if at any time peoples dogs are on any medication from the vets and cannot get a answer from them , if you ring Linda on 07764219147 she can contact HFL and get the right answers for you..

Look i am answering again :- " ...Sorry but would hate anyone to spread rumor's that i don't answer in k9 anymore because i am hiding anything ...

 

[DavidH]

Can someone please put up a copy of the form you need to fill out, if you are asked for a drug test, I'm a bit concerned about any tablets my dogs might be on from the vets,  would this be classed as illegal drugs,? or does the form ask for any medication that was prescribed by a vet.?
I'm sure I'm not the only one who hasn't seen one of these. :thumbsup: Di.

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if your dog is on medication by a vet it most probably shouldn't be racing your vet should also be able to advise you on what clearance time is reccommended

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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So what your saying is that my dog should not be on anything, not even a travel sickness tablet, and if anyone thinks i run my dogs when they are ill can think again, unlike some on her, i race my dogs because THEY love it, they are my life and my PETS first., I'm not a trophy hunter and deffo not in it for the money, I just like to take part and if my dog wins it' a bonus, but i can see some people on here take it very seriously, :- " Had my say, off to take my four out for the third time today. :thumbsup: Di

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ditto :thumbsup: